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Post by robferatu on Jan 25, 2007 15:13:01 GMT -5
According to Wikipedia, the Marine's budget was $15M which probably doens't include the advertising dollars. I read somewhere on some other wrestling website that the ad dollars made the budget skyrocket up to around $25M. To date, the Marine's box office gross revenue was approximately $20M, bringing it close to the break-even mark. See No Evil brought in roughly $15M from the box office, so if the overall revenue figure of $32.5M is accurate, that means it made $17.5M on DVD sales so far. Honestly, I think the Marine will have the same figure as far as DVD sales go, roughly $15M, which will make its total revenue figure be somewhere in the $35M - $40M range. Sure, The Marine wasn't as profitable as See No Evil from a percentage standpoint, but it will make a nice profit of roughly $10M - $15M. That means in the span of just two solely produced WWE Films, they will have earned roughly $30M - $35M in net operating profit, not bad when you consider that the WWE's revenue as a whole for fiscal 2006 was $400M and a net operating profit of $47M. As long as Vince and WWE Films can continue to pump out movies that cost $10M - $30M and release them in theaters across the country, he'll make a great deal of money. To put it another way, WM 23 already has had ticket sales of $4.3M, and with the remaining tickets left to be sold let's say the live gate take climbs to $5.0M. Let's also assume that PPV sales reach $50M (1,000,000 buys at $50 each); WM 23 is probably costing the WWE at least 50% of the total revenue, making it's net operating profit roughly $27.5M. That means that the profits from See No Evil will be greater than the profit from WM 23; the biggest event in WWE history. Its pretty amazing. Also, according to Wikipedia on WWE Films, "The Marine 2" may already be in the works. The President of WWE Films has expressed interest in making a sequel, but the idea has yet to receive the "green light". After seeing the returns from just two solely produced fims, no matter how bad they are from a fan standpoint, I bet Vince gives the "green light" to make it. For a film to "break-even" I believe it needs to make double of what it cost to make.
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Post by akkountent on Jan 25, 2007 15:15:37 GMT -5
Although I realize your statement was pure sarcasm (and not very good sarcasm I might add), you don't need to "wrestle" or worry about being and ego-maniac to make money and be successful. Case in point, Hulk Hogan couldn't wrestle and look how much money the WWE and the pro-wrestling business as a whole made off of him.
The point is, Vince is discovering that the he can make some pretty serious profits in the movie business. "The Condemned" has an estimated budget of $20M according to Wikipedia; I'll bet it'll make at least that during its theater run. Sure, it may be horrible and the critics will certainly "condemn" it (no pun intended), but you know there's at least a couple million people in the US willing to see anything w/ Stone Cold in it. If it makes back the $20M during its theatre run, then the DVD sales that Vince collects are all profit - which can be in excess of $15M - $20M if you follow See No Evil's recent DVD sale success.
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Post by wrath on Jan 25, 2007 15:19:42 GMT -5
I don't care what anyone says. See No Evil was so horrible that it was AWESOME.
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Post by akkountent on Jan 25, 2007 15:21:04 GMT -5
"For a film to "break-even" I believe it needs to make double of what it cost to make. "
I don't know how you figure that. The film cost $15M to make according to Wikipedia. The advertising dollars were roughly $10M (I don't have a direct link to that figure, I read it somewhere); therefore, making the total cost of the movie to be approximately $25M.
The Marine has had roughly $20M in box office receipts to date. If we assume that The Marine will have the same DVD sales of See No Evil (roughly $17.5M), then that's a total rough revenue figure of $37.5M. When you subtract the $25M cost (including ad dollars) then you have a profit of roughly $12M - $15M, of which WWE Films probably gets at least $10M.
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Post by robferatu on Jan 25, 2007 15:24:35 GMT -5
I think everyone fails to realize that WWE and Vince McMahon do not get all the money from both the Theater run and DVD sales.
Each Theaters that carries the film bets a % of the gross, Lion's Gate gets a bigger % for distributing the film and then the WWE gets an equal % for making the film.
When it comes to DVD sales you have to factory in the cost of making a DVD(which isn't much, but still something to factory in). As well you have to realize the chain stores carrying the DVD for sales gets a % of each sell, as well does Lions Gate(once again) and the WWE for there respective roles of making the film possible.
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jevman
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Just better than you. You.
Posts: 733
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Post by jevman on Jan 25, 2007 15:26:21 GMT -5
Although I realize your statement was pure sarcasm (and not very good sarcasm I might add), you don't need to "wrestle" or worry about being and ego-maniac to make money and be successful. Case in point, Hulk Hogan couldn't wrestle and look how much money the WWE and the pro-wrestling business as a whole made off of him. Hulk Hogan was never the draw. Iron Shiek was. Get your facts straight.
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Post by robferatu on Jan 25, 2007 15:28:05 GMT -5
The reason I said a film to break-even has to make double it's budget was because Lion's Gate/WWE Films only gets roughly 50%-60% of it's theater and DVD intake.
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Post by akkountent on Jan 25, 2007 15:33:00 GMT -5
I think everyone fails to realize that WWE and Vince McMahon do not get all the money from both the Theater run and DVD sales. Each Theaters that carries the film bets a % of the gross, Lion's Gate gets a bigger % for distributing the film and then the WWE gets an equal % for making the film. When it comes to DVD sales you have to factory in the cost of making a DVD(which isn't much, but still something to factory in). As well you have to realize the chain stores carrying the DVD for sales gets a % of each sell, as well does Lions Gate(once again) and the WWE for there respective roles of making the film possible. The movie production company receives 100% of the ticket sales at the theaters. It's a little known fact, but movie theaters do not get ANY of the money from ticket sales....which is why you pay $30 for a large popcorn, large drink and candy. I don't know for a complete fact, but I'm quite positive that the movie production company comes away w/ 75% of the total gross of DVD sales & theater gross.
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Post by robferatu on Jan 25, 2007 15:38:01 GMT -5
I may be wrong. But I worked at a movie theater for a couple of years and how it was set up was. The movie theater spent so much on a print of the film. About the same price that Video Store plays for a film to rent out(which I believe is between $50 and $75) and in return the Movie theater made a % of the gross that film made in our respective theater.
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Post by robferatu on Jan 25, 2007 15:39:56 GMT -5
Also keep in mind the Theater I worked in wasn't a chain Theater(if there even is such a thing), so that may have played a factor in how things where set up.
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Post by akkountent on Jan 25, 2007 15:51:21 GMT -5
I did have a friend who worked at a theatre too, and I asked him about the theater economics. He did state that the theatre paid so much for the print of the film and that they had to keep track of all sales and make payments to the production companies every week the movie was playing, which was generally 100%. I guess in some cases, the theaters can request a small %, but I believe it's generally very small.
The source of the real margins for theaters is the concession stands and advertisements before the movie starts. If you've been to the movies lately in a bigger chain theater like Regal or Cinemark, you'd notice the advertisements and commercials that pop up on the screen 5, 10, sometimes 30 minutes before the movie even starts. It's getting ridiculous these days; you've got to sit through countless commercials for sitcoms and ARMY recruitments just to get to the movie; it's almost as if you're at home watching TV w/ all the commercials.
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Post by iamthegamewjwf on Jan 25, 2007 15:58:23 GMT -5
You know how any movie about a retard seems to become a big oscar winner....
Eugene anyone?
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Post by robferatu on Jan 25, 2007 16:02:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I've noticed that as well. The more high profile the release the more trailers they place in front of them. It sometimes feels like you've watched movie of trailers before you've seen the actually movie you came for.
I'm not saying that Lion's Gate and WWE films doesn't make the bulk of the Theater gross or DVD sales, I'm just implying they don't get it all and in my opinion for a film to "break-even" it may not need to make double it's budget, but it needs to make more than it's budget back.
Like See No Evil, I believe it was more of success than The Marine simply because it made roughly 30% more than it cost in it's Theater run as for The Marine it didn't(even if Lions Gate/WWE Films doesn't get all that back, they still get closer to breaking even) and then Factoring in all the DVD sales, Merchandising Sales and Television Rights Sales it makes it pretty impossible for a film to straight up flop these days...unless it's something like The Adventures of Pluto Nash.
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Post by Banned Member on Jan 25, 2007 16:04:43 GMT -5
All facts aside I enjoyed See No Evil. Yes I said I enjoyed it! Wanna fight about it?
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Post by THE Baldy Kendrick on Jan 25, 2007 16:06:46 GMT -5
This is nice and all, but I definitely don't want to see See No Evil 2, or The Marine 2 for that matter. In related news, however, The Condemned looks and sounds fantastic. "And they got hostages!......It's my WIFE." "WHAT?! AGAIN!?" Hey, this is Sway, and this is my inexpicable headwrap. We interupt this thread for important news: John Cena's wife has been kidnapped. Again? ...Again.
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Post by robferatu on Jan 25, 2007 16:07:56 GMT -5
All facts aside I enjoyed See No Evil. Yes I said I enjoyed it! Wanna fight about it? It had it's moments, like most films tend to do. Where I thought "This isn't so bad", then it had it's moments where I thought "This is complete dogshit" A film like See No Evil makes me really wish Mystery Science Theater was still around. As for fighting about it, nah. I wouldn't want to get my ass kicked.
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Post by akkountent on Jan 25, 2007 16:14:04 GMT -5
I agree that See No Evil will end make making a bigger profit margin %, but the Marine will no doubt walk away with a healthy little profit of roughly $10M - $15M, IMO, after seeing the production and ad costs.
And you're right about a film "flopping" these days. In this era of TV and DVD, the revenue generated from those two avenues alone might create a "break-even" situation. Can you imagine how many times the USA Network will be advertising / playing the Marine? The only question is what movie channel will carry the movie first, HBO, Showtime or Starz.
I think Vince was smart to get into the movie industry right now. As long as he can continue to produce the films at a relatively low production cost, roughly $10M - $30M, then WWE Films will continue to make him good money. Imagine if the first 4 films that WWE Films soley produces make a net operating profit of $12M each? (which will likely happen). The WWE as a whole reported a net operating profit of $47M for fiscal 2006 (May 2005 thru April 2006); that means that the first 4 WWE films will earn more profit than the WWE as a whole did in a whole financial year. To me that's pretty amazing, and if "The Condemned" and HHH's movie continues this trend, I can see Vince just keep making more and more movies, no matter how absurd they are.
The only problem I can see w/ the succes of these movies from a profit standpoint is that the WWE superstars will probably start demanding higher pay, and then the production costs will start to skyrocket.
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Post by amsiraK on Jan 25, 2007 16:16:24 GMT -5
See no Evil 2 starring Kane and Bruce Campbell I'd see that every afternoon after work. I'd see that every morning instead of work.
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Post by robferatu on Jan 25, 2007 16:24:10 GMT -5
I think right now it's a pretty smart move on Vince's behalf, but it has alot of potential to backfire. Like if one or two of the WWE films just straight up flopped that could be almost as bad as the XFL flopping for the WWE. But, you have to look at everything two-fold. If one of there films became huge success it would be pretty monumental for the WWE.
I assume Showtime will pick up both See No Evil and The Marine for viewing rights and it's obvious that in a few years when they are able to showed on basic cable that USA will pick up both of them.
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Post by amsiraK on Jan 25, 2007 16:28:08 GMT -5
I'm sure they'll piggyback it with a RAW before we know it.
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