|
Post by mysterydriver on Feb 7, 2007 12:59:35 GMT -5
As much as I enjoy the Green Day song about being in the minority, that comment felt like a brush-off. I love wrestling and I loved TNA. Russo has stated that as long as Wrestling is in the title, then wrestling fans will watch it. However, from what I have seen the last couple of weeks, I think I can prove him wrong. It is a shame too, a pure shame. I wanted them to become a big name competition to WWE. Speaking of WWE, when did they come into this? You just bashed their PPVs for no good reason in a Russo debate. TNA debates almost always relate to WWE and what they're doing in comparison. I'd be shocked if I went through the previous 9 pages and didn't find "WWE" before I typed it, and I actually doubt that's the case. Of course when Russo said "wrestling fans will still watch" he was making a generalization and of course there are going to be exceptions, and even exceptions that become exceptions because the statement makes them sick and they want to disprove it (Russo has caused this with a lot of things he has said over the years) but for the most part he made a good point. Just from this board alone we know there's a crapload of fans watching products they don't like because it's wrestling. That's fine to admit, and it's OK for something Russo said to also be true. You can stop watching for whatever reason you want. Despite you no longer watching the rating seems to be up and steady. I'm not saying you're not a valued fan, but they're always gonna lose some people to gain more. You know some fans out there who are "hardcore" will simply stop watching once it gets too popular with marks. These are things TNA has to know will happen and accept, that they will lose fans in growth periods. We can post back and forth all day arguing about if they're going to die or if they're going to get much bigger and become a threat, but none of us will really know the truth unless it happens. Russo seems to have chronic "Foot-in-mouth" syndrome when it comes to talking about his wrestling "career." Of course my not watching will not effect anything, because I lack a Nielson Ratings Box (Imagine having one of those things.) I don't think TNA is going to die, but I think they are going to depress their own wrestlers by holding back their true talent into a mindless spotfest (Which TNA should not be!) and lose some "hardcore" fans since they won't have real wrestling. Angle is losing his mind. Sting is losing his allure (They need to travel more, because the Impact Zone will begin hurting them before long). LAX, perhaps the best Tag team in any televised show today, is losing credibility for being put in with grizzled veterns who want to still look relevant ("Brother" Ray making Homicide look weak was pathetic). At least Devon seems to want to help the future, but Ray is not. It seems like the Hogan/Kidman feud when you compare LAX/Team 3D. I wonder if Russo will blame that on "da politics!" I have faith in Russo to turn some of this around. He is a smart guy. He just needs someone (Who isn't a Yes-man) to give feedback on his ideas. If I do keep watching, it will be for the conversation on the board (I love the Raw, Impact, ECW, & Smackdown threads during the shows). Okay, I am getting way to worked up over a simple internet conversation. If this thread is around after my college classes, I would be more than happy to continue this debate. Until then, have fun.
|
|
|
Post by I Got Heat on Feb 7, 2007 13:13:47 GMT -5
When I first started watching TNA my feeling was that it had too much Jarrett and it almost felt that the promotion only existed so he could wrestle somewhere with a belt. Kind of like a spoiled kid whose parents buy him his own amusement park because he got banned from the real amusement park in town.
The midcard/undercard guys were all very athletic but their matches were like gymnastics. A lot of them used the same moves even, which further blurs the line between their characters. Most people believe the idea to do the X Division was brilliant, but in a way they just kind of threw all the guys without characters into one big group and then threw in Joe to make it look like they didn't do what they really just did. The X Division is cool and all, but it's kind of a copout because taking all the flippy guys and making them X Division isn't a true substitute for building real characters for these guys.
Another thing I noticed with TNA is that almost every guy got cheered. So regardless of booking, there are no heels in the promotion. If you get cheered, you're a face. Bottom line.
To me, these were the three main problems with TNA pre-Russo. #1 Jarrett making TNA look like Jarrettville, #2 X Division guys not having characters, and #3 every wrestler being a face. Right now, in my opinion, these problems are essentially gone or close to gone, or moving in the direction of gone. You may completely disagree with me or you had other problems with TNA in the past or whatever, but this is why I see improvement in the company. TNA no longer looks like a vehicle for Jarrett to play Ric Flair, there are actual heels being treated as heels - even Chris Sabin and I never would have believed he could get heel heat or any heat, and the X Division guys are FINALLY starting to stand out from each other. So yeah, TNA is making big strides IMO.
|
|
hollywood
King Koopa
the bullet dodger
The Green Arrow has approved this post.
Posts: 11,122
|
Post by hollywood on Feb 7, 2007 13:30:11 GMT -5
|
|
EJS
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,857
|
Post by EJS on Feb 7, 2007 13:37:03 GMT -5
When I first started watching TNA my feeling was that it had too much Jarrett and it almost felt that the promotion only existed so he could wrestle somewhere with a belt. Kind of like a spoiled kid whose parents buy him his own amusement park because he got banned from the real amusement park in town. The midcard/undercard guys were all very athletic but their matches were like gymnastics. A lot of them used the same moves even, which further blurs the line between their characters. Most people believe the idea to do the X Division was brilliant, but in a way they just kind of threw all the guys without characters into one big group and then threw in Joe to make it look like they didn't do what they really just did. The X Division is cool and all, but it's kind of a copout because taking all the flippy guys and making them X Division isn't a true substitute for building real characters for these guys. Another thing I noticed with TNA is that almost every guy got cheered. So regardless of booking, there are no heels in the promotion. If you get cheered, you're a face. Bottom line. To me, these were the three main problems with TNA pre-Russo. #1 Jarrett making TNA look like Jarrettville, #2 X Division guys not having characters, and #3 every wrestler being a face. Right now, in my opinion, these problems are essentially gone or close to gone, or moving in the direction of gone. You may completely disagree with me or you had other problems with TNA in the past or whatever, but this is why I see improvement in the company. TNA no longer looks like a vehicle for Jarrett to play Ric Flair, there are actual heels being treated as heels - even Chris Sabin and I never would have believed he could get heel heat or any heat, and the X Division guys are FINALLY starting to stand out from each other. So yeah, TNA is making big strides IMO. Problem here is, Russo solved these problems, but created new ones that make Impact almost unwatchable to me. The biggest problem being the near total lack of entertaining matches on Impact. I guess they want people to order the PPVs for the good matches, but the problem there is if you don't give people at least a taste of good matches on your TV show, they're not going to care.
|
|
|
Post by Jason Todd Grisham on Feb 7, 2007 13:55:23 GMT -5
I have faith in Russo to turn some of this around. He is a smart guy. He just needs someone (Who isn't a Yes-man) to give feedback on his ideas. Exactly, someone who knows the business. If Cornette would get his head out of his ass we might see a better show. Cornette can provide the logic, and Russo can provide the interesting television. If only they could get along better. Russo just tends to say dumb things and not have a way with words, Cornette just hates Russo. Life isn't fair.
|
|
hollywood
King Koopa
the bullet dodger
The Green Arrow has approved this post.
Posts: 11,122
|
Post by hollywood on Feb 7, 2007 15:04:05 GMT -5
I totally agree with you, but probably for different reasons.
|
|
|
Post by I Got Heat on Feb 8, 2007 1:10:55 GMT -5
When I first started watching TNA my feeling was that it had too much Jarrett and it almost felt that the promotion only existed so he could wrestle somewhere with a belt. Kind of like a spoiled kid whose parents buy him his own amusement park because he got banned from the real amusement park in town. The midcard/undercard guys were all very athletic but their matches were like gymnastics. A lot of them used the same moves even, which further blurs the line between their characters. Most people believe the idea to do the X Division was brilliant, but in a way they just kind of threw all the guys without characters into one big group and then threw in Joe to make it look like they didn't do what they really just did. The X Division is cool and all, but it's kind of a copout because taking all the flippy guys and making them X Division isn't a true substitute for building real characters for these guys. Another thing I noticed with TNA is that almost every guy got cheered. So regardless of booking, there are no heels in the promotion. If you get cheered, you're a face. Bottom line. To me, these were the three main problems with TNA pre-Russo. #1 Jarrett making TNA look like Jarrettville, #2 X Division guys not having characters, and #3 every wrestler being a face. Right now, in my opinion, these problems are essentially gone or close to gone, or moving in the direction of gone. You may completely disagree with me or you had other problems with TNA in the past or whatever, but this is why I see improvement in the company. TNA no longer looks like a vehicle for Jarrett to play Ric Flair, there are actual heels being treated as heels - even Chris Sabin and I never would have believed he could get heel heat or any heat, and the X Division guys are FINALLY starting to stand out from each other. So yeah, TNA is making big strides IMO. Problem here is, Russo solved these problems, but created new ones that make Impact almost unwatchable to me. The biggest problem being the near total lack of entertaining matches on Impact. I guess they want people to order the PPVs for the good matches, but the problem there is if you don't give people at least a taste of good matches on your TV show, they're not going to care. 8 minutes per show IS a taste. If you want to buy a car you can drive it around the block, wrestling fans want to keep it at their house for 2 months while they are supposedly getting a taste of it.. I don't even believe wrestling fans anymore.. IMO they are just cheap.
|
|
|
Post by hunterharthogan on Feb 8, 2007 8:08:55 GMT -5
8 minutes per show IS a taste. If you want to buy a car you can drive it around the block, wrestling fans want to keep it at their house for 2 months while they are supposedly getting a taste of it.. I don't even believe wrestling fans anymore.. IMO they are just cheap.[/quote By your same logic record companys and their artists should only release album filler, or 30 second clips to radio stations. After all if music fans want to hear the good stuff they have to buy the album.
|
|
hollywood
King Koopa
the bullet dodger
The Green Arrow has approved this post.
Posts: 11,122
|
Post by hollywood on Feb 8, 2007 9:12:46 GMT -5
This debate's still raging, huh? You'd all be much better off if you just fessed up and took my side.
|
|
Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
|
Post by Joekishi on Feb 8, 2007 9:19:01 GMT -5
Like I said in a post earlier, MOST of the people unhappy with Impact now are the ones who watched it for PPV-quality matches but did not buy the PPVs. These fans are cheapskate forum people who spend all day on here bashing a lack of free wrestling on TV, when in reality they should go out and get a job and BUY the next PPV to get their wrestling fix. This is exactly why promotions shouldn't cater to Internet fans. The Internet fanbase was the fanbase that TNA catered to at first, then to the spot-monkey addicts, and then the fans who hate WWE. Plus I watch the PPV's, and I hate the build towards PPVs. I think shows leading to the PPV's should be entertaining. If those shows are entertaining it would be in my best interest to order the stinking PPV. However those shows are not entertaining. Oh and you can watch PPV's for free if you're willing to wait an hour. I speak for those wrestling fans who are too cheap to order the PPV, and wait and watch it on my own time. Losing the hardcore fanbase is hard to do, "Hardcore fanbase" always sticks around no matter what.
|
|
|
Post by I Got Heat on Feb 8, 2007 12:53:02 GMT -5
An entertaining storyline is subjective. Personally I think the Sting/Abyss/Christian storyline has 200 times more depth than ANY storyline in WWE currently. Let's look at a main event Raw storyline for example. Cena and Umaga began feuding because Umaga, for some reason, decided to attack Maria in the ring. Cena came in to her defense, but as she was being pulled out unconscious on a stretcher Cena was cutting a COMEDY PROMO about how wacky Raw has been lately. This IS why Cena and Umaga are feuding. People get on Russo all the time for writing poor storylines, but I don't think they even know what a good storyline is because they have WWE so far up their asses. Sting/Abyss/Christian was a religious/power struggle angle that was based on psychology AND wanting the title. Yet Russo sucks.... right. Seriously, if you want boring crap (ROH) or storylines that you are fooled into thinking are good because the pyro is awesome (WWE) then by all means ditch TNA forever.
Often times it seems fans on these forums want vanilla booking (ROH style) where one guy wants to defend the belt and one guy wants to get the belt. OK, but that's good for the net guys who post here, but most people don't want to watch a fake wrestling match that has no "sports entertainment" story attached to it. If they wanted to watch a fight that looked completely real and was based in logic they'd watch the UFC.
|
|