bigHEADinc
El Dandy
Wanted Conway Twitty as a special title.
lest we forget...
Posts: 7,711
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Post by bigHEADinc on Feb 6, 2007 16:33:05 GMT -5
As someone who will be attending WM this year live for the first time, I must say that I'm not as pumped as I was back in the fall when I was hoping for matches of epic proportions; possibly Austin vs Hogan, WWE champ vs. World champ, etc. Since this WM was going to be at a large venue, I thought they were going to put on epic matches much like the epics of WM 17, 18 & 19 when they were held at football & baseball stadiums. I'm sorry but HBK vs Cena, Undertaker vs Batista and Hogan vs Shane or Khali doesn't strike me as "epic" or legendary by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, it's WM, so the people will do their best, but it's missing the greatness of WM's of past years. I think the ultimate question and the question that's important to Vince and the WWE is: now that the main events have been announced, will you purchase WM 23 for $49.99? There are probably many die-hard pro-wrestling fans that will just because its WM, but I think Vince and company try to pull out all the stops each year to get the "on-the-fence" wrestling fans to buy into it. I guess he's hoping that there will be many buys stemming from Trump's involvement, but I don't think the average fan buys WM for the celebrity involvement - I think they want to see those epic matches you only see once a year. To be fair, part of the whole Taker/Batista thing is the rumors swirling behind Taker's retirement and Batista possibly being the man to end his streak. Also, I'm happy that, so far, HBK is in the co-main event because, let's be honest, he's been a human Wrestlemania Highlight Reel for several years now, so you know at least his performance will be good. I'm looking forward to finding out what they're doing about the Money In the Bank Ladder Match. It seems to have become a mainstay, and they'd be stupid not to do it again, so you're guaranteed something memorable from this. If not that, I was hoping for maybe a 4-way Tag Team TLC match between the Hardyz, MNM, WGTT, and Cryme Tyme.
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Post by Arturo Classico on Feb 6, 2007 16:33:20 GMT -5
I think part of the problem this year is that none of the matches at all really have any buildup. Last year, there was one match -- the women's title match -- of which the seeds were planted in October of the previous year when Mickie first debuted. That's one of the reasons I liked the whole angle so much; the whole Mickie vs Trish thing was several months in the making, and Wrestlemania was the payoff. They even had a nice "epilogue" in the month following WM when they each dressed up like each other until the rematch. Then there was 2 years ago, with the Wrestlemania feud between Batista and HHH. That also was several months in the making. Even when Batista was still in evolution, it was becoming obvious that HHH was holding him back (in the storyline) and the crowd was clamoring to see Batista leave Evolution. Then for several weeks, HHH was "accidentally" costing Batista wins so he wouldn't get outshined. When they had the contract signing and Batista made it official that he would be facing HHH at WM21, that was pretty huge. See I think it was better when there was one world champion in WWE. Now they have to think of how to book for three world titles and it's effecting over matches as well. Bringing back The Undisputed Championship would be so much better than what they have now.
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Post by G✇JI☈A on Feb 6, 2007 16:37:46 GMT -5
As I said when the first rumors of the Batista v Taker match came down. We may not like it but the casual fans will see this as a must see and will probably make WWE a lot of money.
And sadly thats he way things are in pro wrestling: 1. Making A Profit. 2. Put on great matches. 3. Swimsuit Models with Big Tits.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Feb 6, 2007 16:40:31 GMT -5
Where is the heat between Bautista and UT? Talk about pulling a match out the yin yang... Batista/Taker has been built since the beginning of January. From Batista's promo, to Batista being prodded by JBL/Cole about the challenge of Undertaker, to Batista Spearing Kenneddy costing Taker a title shot, to Taker delivering a Big Boot to Batista. If you've been watching Smackdown it makes a lot of sense. Yeah The 2 main events of HBK/Cena and Taker/Batista are promising to me, and ARE WRESTLEMANIA worthy. Taker/Batista the two top dogs on Smackdown going at it for the first time. Hell last Night Batista got the biggest pop of the 3 champs, and almost as big as Taker's. Now There's Money in the Bank... An ECW title match. ECW: Civil War starting. I really think ALL titles should be on the line at wrestlemania.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,383
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Post by Legion on Feb 6, 2007 16:45:50 GMT -5
Why is this conversation even happening?
We don't get build up anymore, if you get a months worth between PPV then you should be happy. WWE is geared toward the casual fan, they can dip in and out, with the constant fans keeping the ratings high enough every week when it isn't a boom period.
I, for one, would not like to see months of two people mucking about, that would bore me, and i think if you thought about it, it would you as well. Imagine how much people complain about Edge/Cena, that was a long fued with alot of chemistry and back and forth. Undertaker/Orton was another example. Unless there is to be no contact during the build up phase of course, but then all you get is run in or Undertaker style mind games.
Having less PPV's a year wouldn't work now a days unless people are losing jobs. The events bring in the cash for Vince, for the wrestlers and for the rest of the staff.
As for the talk of too many champions, i disagree with that as well. They are generally kept apart, as three seperate brands. An undisputed champion would leave a vacuum at the top of the three shows when the champion wasn't around or worse, would leave one poor guy to have to travel the country for various shows alot more than anyone else. Have we not seen the effects of too much road time in the past?
Just think of boxing. It is all essentially one big sport, lots of classes, but many heavyweight titles (and others tbh). These are just as valued because of the people who wear them. They have had bad representatives just as they have had good, same as we get now. Cena - bad wrestler, great entertainer and merch seller. Batista - AWFUL wrestler but he has the Warrior level of crowd appeal which is enough for him to be popular. Lashley - Average all rounder, the guys isn't even that bad on the mic, he justs sounds funny, no, he shouldn't be champion really, but then no one on ECW really can be, the show needs work, but even that isn't as awful as some make out.
I take my wrestling just as seriously as anyone else, that's why i come and post here, but at the same time i honestly feel that some people, not everyone, but some people really do think about things too much; so much infact that they begin to forget that it's meant to be entertainment. Sometimes you just need to lose yourself in the show, forget about the stuff you know from the net or whatever and just watch
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sabu
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,605
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Post by sabu on Feb 6, 2007 17:03:17 GMT -5
ppv's and wrestling in general has really been hurt by too many ppv's.
There isn't enough time to build up feuds and story lines
there's rarely any heat these days
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Post by Tyfo on Feb 6, 2007 17:06:05 GMT -5
The last two years people have complain and/or rude femaleed and moaned about WrestleMania looking weak, etc. etc. etc. and both times, it has exceeded everyones expectations. So they dont have year long buildups anymore, so what.
Batista/Taker, HBK/Cena. Both matches that have never happened before, both WrestleMania worthy main event matches.
Hogan will be there, Austin will be there in some capacity. Theres still either MITB or TLC or maybe both. ECW title, and probably some other good stuff as well.
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Post by Jake Robert's Dealer!!! on Feb 6, 2007 17:39:24 GMT -5
Why is this conversation even happening? We don't get build up anymore, if you get a months worth between PPV then you should be happy. WWE is geared toward the casual fan, they can dip in and out, with the constant fans keeping the ratings high enough every week when it isn't a boom period. I, for one, would not like to see months of two people mucking about, that would bore me, and i think if you thought about it, it would you as well. Imagine how much people complain about Edge/Cena, that was a long fued with alot of chemistry and back and forth. Undertaker/Orton was another example. Unless there is to be no contact during the build up phase of course, but then all you get is run in or Undertaker style mind games. Having less PPV's a year wouldn't work now a days unless people are losing jobs. The events bring in the cash for Vince, for the wrestlers and for the rest of the staff. As for the talk of too many champions, i disagree with that as well. They are generally kept apart, as three seperate brands. An undisputed champion would leave a vacuum at the top of the three shows when the champion wasn't around or worse, would leave one poor guy to have to travel the country for various shows alot more than anyone else. Have we not seen the effects of too much road time in the past? Just think of boxing. It is all essentially one big sport, lots of classes, but many heavyweight titles (and others tbh). These are just as valued because of the people who wear them. They have had bad representatives just as they have had good, same as we get now. Cena - bad wrestler, great entertainer and merch seller. Batista - AWFUL wrestler but he has the Warrior level of crowd appeal which is enough for him to be popular. Lashley - Average all rounder, the guys isn't even that bad on the mic, he justs sounds funny, no, he shouldn't be champion really, but then no one on ECW really can be, the show needs work, but even that isn't as awful as some make out. I take my wrestling just as seriously as anyone else, that's why i come and post here, but at the same time i honestly feel that some people, not everyone, but some people really do think about things too much; so much infact that they begin to forget that it's meant to be entertainment. Sometimes you just need to lose yourself in the show, forget about the stuff you know from the net or whatever and just watch Batista may be popular but he is not as over as Warrior was. Anyhow, being the World champ comes with responsibility and if they have to do all that traveling then so be it. I was watching Warrior's shoot video and he said that he was on the road 26 days out of the month when he was champion so I am sure Batista can handle one more date on his calendar.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2007 18:03:31 GMT -5
The last couple manias have basically been "Summerslam v. 2"
Taker/Batista is a pretty big match though.
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lotus
Hans Moleman
Posts: 0
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Post by lotus on Feb 6, 2007 18:22:00 GMT -5
The last WrestleMania that was truly "Epic" for me was XIX. XX was alright but since then it seems they just ride on the fact that it's WrestleMania and hardly put forth the effort to make it WrestleMania worthy anymore.
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Post by KingPopper on Feb 6, 2007 20:11:35 GMT -5
It's still how many weeks till wrestlemania and you people are complaining. Sure it doesnt have the long term build as Angle/Lesnar and some of the others, but since the brand split there has always been one title match that thrown on the card at the last minute, Booker vs. HHH, Eddie vs. Angle, even Cena vs. JBL or HHH was thrown together slowly due to a tournament, that lasts till No Way Out. The build over the past few weeks has been great. It made all 3 titles seem important, and with 3 guys wanting the WWE title made that feel really important. I like the mainevents of wrestlemania and I'm glad I'm seeing it live.
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wwerules60
El Dandy
"Bring what? a vomit bag? a fig newton?"
Posts: 8,999
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Post by wwerules60 on Feb 6, 2007 20:54:24 GMT -5
Everyone had these same complaints last year. And Wrestlemania always turns out to be a solid show. And the build for this one has been very good so far (except for the tag match at No Way Out, which i don't really agree with).
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Post by robferatu on Feb 6, 2007 20:57:44 GMT -5
It's really hard nowadays to build this up considering you have a PPV every month, so the Champion will always be distracted by somebody else, like Cena with Umaga for instance. Personally i think the build for Batista Taker has been OK. Cena HBK? Not so good.....yet. I dont think the build has been good for Batista/UT.... having UT chokeslam Batista a month and a half before the PPV is hardly a build... no storyline.. no emotion.. no backstory... pointless pairing.. And I also agree... 3 world titles... they mean squat. There doesn't always have to be a story behind every match. If that was the case than alot of matches would never happen. Sure it's nice to have a story behind a match, it feels like it means more.
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Watts
Tommy Wiseau
Posts: 87
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Post by Watts on Feb 6, 2007 20:59:33 GMT -5
Optimists, you do need stories.... if for a match on Wrestlemania... you DO need stories...
Hell... the old Heenan/Red Rooster feud almost 20 years ago had more feeling and depth than Batista/UT....
Wrestlemania is still supposedly the BIGGEST show of the year, and to be there, you damn sure need a REASON to be there....
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 6, 2007 21:11:25 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to HBK/Cena a hell of a lot more than I did Cena/HHH last year around this time.
Same thing for Batista/Taker over the Orton/Angle/Rey match which sounds good on paper, but was way too short and I think everyone pretty much knew they were putting the belt on Rey.
I'm interested enough that I might order this year.
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Post by robferatu on Feb 6, 2007 21:17:33 GMT -5
Here's your story. Undertaker won the Royal Rumble, thus giving him the right to challenge for a Championship. He choose to challenge for the one on the brand he wrestles for.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on Feb 6, 2007 21:18:17 GMT -5
I think they are doing an ok job of building up the main events. Cena/HBK has been teased as has Taker/Batista for a while now. Now that the matches are confirmed, we'll get 2 more months of buildup. The NWO main event is perfect really, that's probably the best main event to buildup to the biggest show of the year they have done since the brand split.
I think the brand split tarnishes the value of WM. While it shouldn't as only the best of the best of the brands are competing, there are too many world championships being defended that are meant to be on the same playing field. Someone before said something about weight divisions and boxing referencing how the world titles are now, but I disagree. There are no real prerequisites for these titles. They don't represent different divisions. They represent the best of the best. Somewhere along the line, one (or two) of these world titles will look inferior to the rest, just because they all need to be defended.
Then the undercard has been seriously lacking in development. MITB is just thrown in there as something to give to midcarders. Other title defenses are barely built up, yet the grudge matches do get moderate buildup. There is just too much to book now with three brands. The undercard will suffer because there are too many of them. What are they going to do this year? World title defense per brand, grudge match per brand then RAW tag title and Crusierweight defense? It's a huge clusterf*** because there is too much talent in the WWE to cram into a 3 hour show. You can't fit the essense of 100 wrestlers in 3 hours, and you sure as hell can't give the right representation.
In short, WWE just has too much talent which makes the undercard weak which in effect makes the whole card feel weak. Yeah, there are going to be 2 good matches. But you know what the last WM was that I liked? WM 20, which had a GREAT undercard. Before that, I hated WM19, but before those they had good undercard buildup.
It's not just the main events that make the card, the entire card captures the feeling of what makes the event so spectactular. If I wanted to buy a PPV just for the main event, I would buy any of the WWE ones. WM is supposed to be the creme de la creme, in all facets, including the undercard.
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Garee
King Koopa
I miss the old days
Posts: 11,338
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Post by Garee on Feb 6, 2007 21:19:11 GMT -5
Wrestling today can't be compared to wrestling 15 years ago, ever since virtually every fan watching it is ''smartened up'' to the business it has not been the same. It meant more when the fans watching the match were into the match and wrestlers themselves, not waiting for the next big ''spot'' to happen. And now that before something can happen oer time on television it's leaked on the internet, so I think they are forced to move things faster then they would like to. In the end the guys that sell the most tickets are the ones who are going to be in the main events, no matter how much people will complain that certain guys should get a push because they're a better wrestler, if they're not marketable, they're not going to main event. So ever since they have to use suprise to gain viewers the title have become meaningless, and the talent has become rushed. I too have been watching wrestling since WM3, and the fact is that Hogan knew just as many moves as Cena does, and I loved him back then, knowing nothing about the ''business''. And now looking back it's kinda annoying knowing so much now, because it ruins alot of the fun of it.
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Watts
Tommy Wiseau
Posts: 87
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Post by Watts on Feb 6, 2007 21:25:01 GMT -5
Here's your story. Undertaker won the Royal Rumble, thus giving him the right to challenge for a Championship. He choose to challenge for the one on the brand he wrestles for. Powerful backstory.....
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Watts
Tommy Wiseau
Posts: 87
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Post by Watts on Feb 6, 2007 21:25:48 GMT -5
In short, WWE just has too much talent which makes the undercard weak which in effect makes the whole card feel weak. . Let ECW have some of the talent....
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