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Post by subject2 on Feb 4, 2007 22:17:15 GMT -5
Im just wondering...ever since i watched the WWE...even up intil 2002-03 it seemd as if the fans responses would make differences... If a face character was constantly booed they would realise they were'y getting over as a face and turn them heel (the rock twice,randy orton)...If a heel was getting cheered they would turn them face (austin, hogan)...If fans didnt react to wrestlers and as a result they didnt get over..they were pulled or stopped with their gimmick...If a midcarder was gettin huge pops and was good enough...theyd get pushed 2 main event. It seems that ince say 2004 they have stopped this...sensible way of doing things...they push people down our throats constantly and no amount of fan disaproval will deter them..(CENA,LASHLEY) .. guys who fans love and WANT in the main event ..just get jobbed out and depushed...i don't understand  I believe anytime before say 2002 cena would've been turnd heel already..OR..gone back to rapping..hed have stopped the lame crap and ditched the superman act. ECW would've gone back to hardcore style allll the time... CM Punk...RVD..Carlito ...would've been in major storylines..and gotten better pushes... it just seems as if no1 in the WWE listens to any reactions of fans anymore or wwe wouldn't be in this slump... Thoughts? |
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Garee
King Koopa
I miss the old days
Posts: 11,338
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Post by Garee on Feb 4, 2007 22:19:20 GMT -5
Cause Vince McMahon tells you what you want!
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Daveman
Don Corleone
And if this were my career, I'd have to throw myself in front of a train.
Posts: 2,071
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Post by Daveman on Feb 4, 2007 22:19:25 GMT -5
Your argument is flawed, though, since the majority of fans cheer for Lashley and Cena.
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Post by amplifierWORSHIP! on Feb 4, 2007 22:21:22 GMT -5
Cause Vince McMahon tells you what you want! correct. his opinion is the only one that matters, and his legion of yes-men will assure this. |
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Godhand
Team Rocket
The feel good poster of the year
Posts: 803
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Post by Godhand on Feb 4, 2007 22:21:38 GMT -5
Why should Vince care what the fans think these days, when they continue to watch his product no matter what he shows? wwe is in a slump but its not really a business one. The new forlmula is if the fans dont like it then keep doing it until the fans change their minds. (Hey it worked with Cena).
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,798
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 4, 2007 22:24:27 GMT -5
I have another theory.
I think that the fans dont quite know what the want sometimes. People like to flip flop on a regular basis
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 4, 2007 22:25:43 GMT -5
They can't hear ya over the cash register ringing up the Cena stuff.
And that other thing slickness said too.
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Feb 4, 2007 22:30:10 GMT -5
Your argument is flawed, though, since the majority of fans cheer for Lashley and Cena. Not really. Lashley gets mid-card babyface heat. Both RVD and Punk get more cheers that he does. Cena, on the other hand, gets main event heat from about half of the crowd, while the other part hates him (depending on which city WWE is in). Therefore, his argument is not flawed. In regards to the topic question, many promoters have an aristocratic view regarding fans (i.e. promoters believe they know what's better for the fans than they do). This is a dangerous attitude to have, as it leads to fans thinking that their opinions don't matter, which makes them less interested in the product. If they're less interested, they'll spend less money on the product, which will hurt the promotion. That's not to say that fans should get EVERYTHING they want (far from it), but they shouldn't have something they hate forced on them. A good promoter knows how to adapt to what the fans want and balance it with what he or she feels they need. |
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Daveman
Don Corleone
And if this were my career, I'd have to throw myself in front of a train.
Posts: 2,071
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Post by Daveman on Feb 4, 2007 22:31:50 GMT -5
Cena is popular. Get over it.
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Feb 4, 2007 22:33:18 GMT -5
Cena is popular. Get over it. Speaking of flawed arguments... |
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Post by amsiraK on Feb 4, 2007 22:36:53 GMT -5
Cause Vince McMahon tells you what you want! You joke... In general, the people in the wrestling business have a very dim view of their fanbase. While the mainstream entertainment business sees us as little more than drooling morons... wrestling doesn't think much better about us. |
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Post by I Got Heat on Feb 4, 2007 22:37:19 GMT -5
Your argument is flawed, though, since the majority of fans cheer for Lashley and Cena. Those fans would cheer anyone given those pushes. The poster is talking about guys who fans wanted in the spot and cheered them into the spot, not guys who got pushed so hard that they eventually got cheered. It's actually a different level of overness and "emotional fan connection". Yeah, Cena makes money, but it ain't Rock/Hogan/Austin money - and it never will be. WWE is turning a profit, but look at how they're doing it. Raising PPV prices, WWE 24/7, milking the ECW name. Why are they doing these things? For the same reason you'd stick a bowl directly under a hole in your roof when it's raining. Their bread and butter (house shows, PPV buys) aren't bringing in the cash they're supposed to bring in, so WWE is desperately trying to find new ways to keep the rain out, but how long will they be able to do this without fixing the real problem? There are a couple giant holes in the WWE right now and their "quick fix" schemes are only working for the moment. P.S. Don't buy their stock. |
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Post by Andrew is Good on Feb 4, 2007 22:46:17 GMT -5
Lashley gets decent reactions, nothing like Rob Van Dam though. Plus it's not a good idea to push stars who aren't main event level, because it could expose them if they're inexperienced.
John Cena gets mega reactions, like it or not. And it's not just from fans who will cheer whatever. The fans who cheer him are the ones who do get the emotional connection from John Cena, because they see John Cena as a good guy and someone they can respect. My supervisor talked to me and told me he was a wrestling fan, and his favourite was John Cena because he thought he was great. General fans have that emotional connection with John Cena. Besides, John Cena's in ring ability has drastically improved, and he's started to fit into the main event scene quite nicely. Compared to Batista and Lashley, he really has busted his ass to improve and get the people to believe that he is worthy of being the WWE Champion, unlike the other two Champions.
As for CM Punk, he does get good reactions, and is getting pushed accordingly. While I feel that he would be able to hold the title well and put on main event matches, he just got there. Giving people Brock Lesnar type pushes is ALWAYS a bad idea, no matter how good the talent is. Lashley included. But he definitely has the potential.
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Post by I Got Heat on Feb 4, 2007 22:47:45 GMT -5
Fans cheer winners in every sport fake or not. Cena never loses.
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Post by ghettooverlord on Feb 4, 2007 22:49:13 GMT -5
Cena is popular. Get over it. Speaking of flawed arguments... You're actually willing to debate this? -.- |
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Post by rrm15 on Feb 4, 2007 22:49:46 GMT -5
I see the problem as being that no one, and I mean no one, in WWE right now is that terribly exciting. Remember in 03 when Eddie, even as a heel, was getting MONSTER pops and was so damn over that they pushed him all the way? He was an exciting, entertaining, likable character and out of the blue EVERYONE rallied behind him. That doesn't happen anymore. No one in WWE right now has that type of connection with the fans, and even if someone manages to break out of the mold, WWE doesn't know how to capatilize on it. What they need is a new approach, new wrestlers, and new booking.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Feb 4, 2007 22:49:48 GMT -5
Fans cheer winners in every sport fake or not. Cena never loses. If that was the case, then Rocky Maivia would have gotten over like a million dollars. But he didn't. He just kept winning and winning, and the fans got sick of it. Besides, people get attached better to people who sometimes lose, then make that comeback. I feel that's why Cena was booed so much in the beginning, because before, he would never lose. Now, he loses a little more often, but still not too much. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 4, 2007 22:51:36 GMT -5
The Cena makes money but not as much as Rock/Austin is a bit skewed by the fact that the audiences aren't nearly as big as they were in Rock/Austin's prime. Fewer people to spend money will getcha less money.
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Post by I Got Heat on Feb 4, 2007 22:51:46 GMT -5
People were sick of Cena in the EXACT same way they were Maivia. Maivia would have probably turned out to be Cena now if they hadn't turned him, but he never would have become The Rock.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Feb 4, 2007 22:51:57 GMT -5
I see the problem as being that no one, and I mean no one, in WWE right now is that terribly exciting. Remember in 03 when Eddie, even as a heel, was getting MONSTER pops and was so damn over that they pushed him all the way? He was an exciting, entertaining, likable character and out of the blue EVERYONE rallied behind him. That doesn't happen anymore. No one in WWE right now has that type of connection with the fans, and even if someone manages to break out of the mold, WWE doesn't know how to capatilize on it. What they need is a new approach, new wrestlers, and new booking. I think that's a good point, and it always goes with the fact that there aren't really any break out stars right now. That's why Taker and HBK were the final two in the Royal Rumble. |
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