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Post by I Got Heat on Feb 4, 2007 22:52:20 GMT -5
The Cena makes money but not as much as Rock/Austin is a bit skewed by the fact that the audiences aren't nearly as big as they were in Rock/Austin's prime. Fewer people to spend money will getcha less money. Who brought in those audiences?
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JMA
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Post by JMA on Feb 4, 2007 22:52:41 GMT -5
Speaking of flawed arguments... You're actually willing to debate this? -.- Nope. Why waste time on something like that?
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Post by rrm15 on Feb 4, 2007 22:57:04 GMT -5
I see the problem as being that no one, and I mean no one, in WWE right now is that terribly exciting. Remember in 03 when Eddie, even as a heel, was getting MONSTER pops and was so damn over that they pushed him all the way? He was an exciting, entertaining, likable character and out of the blue EVERYONE rallied behind him. That doesn't happen anymore. No one in WWE right now has that type of connection with the fans, and even if someone manages to break out of the mold, WWE doesn't know how to capatilize on it. What they need is a new approach, new wrestlers, and new booking. I think that's a good point, and it always goes with the fact that there aren't really any break out stars right now. That's why Taker and HBK were the final two in the Royal Rumble. Exactly. No one else could have pulled off what Taker and HBK did at the end of the rumble this year. If it had come down to Carlito and MVP, for example, would it have been as exciting? Absolutely not. And considering that HBK and Taker won't be around THAT much longer, thats a little scary for WWE.
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Post by revolution on Feb 4, 2007 23:02:04 GMT -5
Thats what i was thinking..in the next few years we wont have any more undertaker...and possibly no more HBK or HHH (one more injury and he could be out for good)...i think its these few legends that bring in alot of the audience..imagine what its going to be like without them..
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Feb 4, 2007 23:03:20 GMT -5
I think that's a good point, and it always goes with the fact that there aren't really any break out stars right now. That's why Taker and HBK were the final two in the Royal Rumble. Exactly. No one else could have pulled off what Taker and HBK did at the end of the rumble this year. If it had come down to Carlito and MVP, for example, would it have been as exciting? Absolutely not. And considering that HBK and Taker won't be around THAT much longer, thats a little scary for WWE. I was thinking that
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Post by I Got Heat on Feb 4, 2007 23:03:24 GMT -5
I think that's a good point, and it always goes with the fact that there aren't really any break out stars right now. That's why Taker and HBK were the final two in the Royal Rumble. Exactly. No one else could have pulled off what Taker and HBK did at the end of the rumble this year. If it had come down to Carlito and MVP, for example, would it have been as exciting? Absolutely not. And considering that HBK and Taker won't be around THAT much longer, thats a little scary for WWE. It's hard for wrestling characters to pull off a big moment when they're booked as idiots. If WWE booked Carlito in anything it would end up with Torrie Wilson running out with her dog and Carlito blushing like a 4th grader. Taker and HBK pulled it off because they are booked strongly at every turn. Maybe if WWE actually got off their asses and wrote a storyline for someone under 40 they might have the same opportunities as the dinosaurs.
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Post by rrm15 on Feb 4, 2007 23:10:14 GMT -5
Exactly. No one else could have pulled off what Taker and HBK did at the end of the rumble this year. If it had come down to Carlito and MVP, for example, would it have been as exciting? Absolutely not. And considering that HBK and Taker won't be around THAT much longer, thats a little scary for WWE. It's hard for wrestling characters to pull off a big moment when they're booked as idiots. If WWE booked Carlito in anything it would end up with Torrie Wilson running out with her dog and Carlito blushing like a 4th grader. Taker and HBK pulled it off because they are booked strongly at every turn. Maybe if WWE actually got off their asses and wrote a storyline for someone under 40 they might have the same opportunities as the dinosaurs. Which is exactly the problem. Then again, its hard to book someone well when the efforts that you do make to book them are met with silence from the crowd. Carlitos face turn has killed his momentum, and MVP isn't exactly electrifying crowds nation wide for whatever reason.
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Post by dirtydickraines on Feb 4, 2007 23:24:56 GMT -5
The original poster is looking at the situation from an IWC member's POV. Although most of us don't want Cena as a face or champion, the casual fan who doesn't follow the internet does. In some ways, it good the WWE doesn't listen to us. I for one would rather see Cena on my television that Scotty 2 Hotty or Steven Richards. The IWC makes up a much smaller portion of the fanbase than we like to think.
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Post by joeman on Feb 4, 2007 23:53:12 GMT -5
The original poster is looking at the situation from an IWC member's POV. Although most of us don't want Cena as a face or champion, the casual fan who doesn't follow the internet does. In some ways, it good the WWE doesn't listen to us. I for one would rather see Cena on my television that Scotty 2 Hotty or Steven Richards. The IWC makes up a much smaller portion of the fanbase than we like to think. You hit the nail right there. I mean in another thread Lance Storm was suggested as World Champion, but can you imagine the casual fans seeing him as champ? He is a good wrestler and all, but Eric Bischoff was right for once.
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mo
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Post by mo on Feb 4, 2007 23:55:33 GMT -5
I think they are sometimes, I'm pretty sure Edge's suprise title win at NYR wasn't only because they were running out of time for the MITB contract
I mean Chris f***ing Masters was getting cheered over Cena in Albany that night
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Post by carter 15 on Feb 5, 2007 0:26:46 GMT -5
Cena is a merchandise machine, also probably the most over person on the roster. Why hot shot his heel turn?
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JMA
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Post by JMA on Feb 5, 2007 0:30:28 GMT -5
The IWC makes up a much smaller portion of the fanbase than we like to think. Perhaps, but the IWC grows every year, regardless of whether wrestling is popular or not. This likely has to do with the Internet being used by more people, including wrestling fans. Sooner, rather than later, it'll have a much bigger impact.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2007 0:33:34 GMT -5
I think people tend to over exaggerate when it comes to how many people hate Cena, for the most part I think Cena's worst opposition was a 50/50 reaction, but I appreciate that WWE didn't press the panic button and just turn him heel because of it, especially after watching TNA as long as I have it's really a thrill when you hear a genuine "let's go Cena, let's go _____" chant. As much as you hate Cena you can't deny what the split crowd in the Jericho, Angle and Triple H matches(EDIT: And ESPECIALLY the TOTAL blasting he received in ECW:ONS) added to the atmosphere.
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Post by steamboat1 on Feb 5, 2007 0:59:16 GMT -5
I have a theory to this. I feel that if the WWE listened to fans too often, then we really wouldn't appreciate when they do listen to us. If they gave us everything we wanted, things would be less important(aka Eddie and Chris winning the title, Undertaker going back to the deadman, Hogan turning back red and yellow etc.). So they try to balance it out, however lately they are doing a very poor job of it.
The last major example I can recall WWE listening to fans is giving RVD the title. However, he screwed that up himself, and I think thats the reason they have been really gunshy lately when it comes to giving the fans what they want.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 5, 2007 1:01:26 GMT -5
Not listening to what 'we' want implies that we all want the same thing anyway. Which couldn't be further from the truth.
Heck a good example, I wanted Taker to stay Bikertaker.
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Post by kitsunestar on Feb 5, 2007 3:37:44 GMT -5
Not listening to what 'we' want implies that we all want the same thing anyway. Which couldn't be further from the truth. Heck a good example, I wanted Taker to stay Bikertaker. I wanted Bikertaker to stay that way, too.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Feb 5, 2007 3:52:09 GMT -5
Not listening to what 'we' want implies that we all want the same thing anyway. Which couldn't be further from the truth. Heck a good example, I wanted Taker to stay Bikertaker. And I wanted Taker to stay off my TV.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Feb 5, 2007 4:05:39 GMT -5
There are a few differences between Brock Lesnar and CM Punk, though. While Punk is about a year younger than Brock, Punk has been a pro wrestler since the mid 90s, while Brock started in 2000. Punk worked a vast array of independent promotions before signing his WWE contract in 2005, while Brock went from college (and collegiate wrestling) to OVW (switching to pro wrestling) to WWE in a span of 2 years. Lesnar won the WWE title in less than a year at the age of 25. CM Punk is somewhere around 29-30.
The differences in age during their WWE tenure are not all that vast, but Brock was in pro wrestling for about 2 and half years before getting the title, whereas Punk has been at it for about a decade.
I'm not saying they should give Punk the title, just that we're talking about two different situations.
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Post by pntjaksi on Feb 5, 2007 5:09:51 GMT -5
Lashley gets decent reactions, nothing like Rob Van Dam though. Plus it's not a good idea to push stars who aren't main event level, because it could expose them if they're inexperienced. John Cena gets mega reactions, like it or not. And it's not just from fans who will cheer whatever. The fans who cheer him are the ones who do get the emotional connection from John Cena, because they see John Cena as a good guy and someone they can respect. My supervisor talked to me and told me he was a wrestling fan, and his favourite was John Cena because he thought he was great. General fans have that emotional connection with John Cena. Besides, John Cena's in ring ability has drastically improved, and he's started to fit into the main event scene quite nicely. Compared to Batista and Lashley, he really has busted his ass to improve and get the people to believe that he is worthy of being the WWE Champion, unlike the other two Champions. As for CM Punk, he does get good reactions, and is getting pushed accordingly. While I feel that he would be able to hold the title well and put on main event matches, he just got there. Giving people Brock Lesnar type pushes is ALWAYS a bad idea, no matter how good the talent is. Lashley included. But he definitely has the potential. Yeah, John Cena used to have that emotional connection with the crowd, the fans....but he lost it. He needs it back and the only way he is getting it is by having WarrriorThug4Cena either be a fan again or actually get into pro wrestling school and into WWE. Because word is John hates WarriorThug4Cena and what WarriorThug4Cena says on forums and comment boards is being ignored. John Cena's wrestling ability hasn't changed or improved much. Probably because he just isn't getting to have as much fun as he used to. The remedy for that is............ The WWE needs to let WarriorThug4Cena get in shape,go to pro wrestling school and get into WWE. Let WarriorThug4Cena be with John Cena.... Then the WWE product will improve greatly and bring in---draw more crowds...more money, better shows,more interest in the product,etc.
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Feb 5, 2007 5:11:09 GMT -5
Lashley gets decent reactions, nothing like Rob Van Dam though. Plus it's not a good idea to push stars who aren't main event level, because it could expose them if they're inexperienced. John Cena gets mega reactions, like it or not. And it's not just from fans who will cheer whatever. The fans who cheer him are the ones who do get the emotional connection from John Cena, because they see John Cena as a good guy and someone they can respect. My supervisor talked to me and told me he was a wrestling fan, and his favourite was John Cena because he thought he was great. General fans have that emotional connection with John Cena. Besides, John Cena's in ring ability has drastically improved, and he's started to fit into the main event scene quite nicely. Compared to Batista and Lashley, he really has busted his ass to improve and get the people to believe that he is worthy of being the WWE Champion, unlike the other two Champions. As for CM Punk, he does get good reactions, and is getting pushed accordingly. While I feel that he would be able to hold the title well and put on main event matches, he just got there. Giving people Brock Lesnar type pushes is ALWAYS a bad idea, no matter how good the talent is. Lashley included. But he definitely has the potential. Yeah, John Cena used to have that emotional connection with the crowd, the fans....but he lost it. He needs it back and the only way he is getting it is by having WarrriorThug4Cena either be a fan again or actually get into pro wrestling school and into WWE. Because word is John hates WarriorThug4Cena and what WarriorThug4Cena says on forums and comment boards is being ignored. John Cena's wrestling ability hasn't changed or improved much. Probably because he just isn't getting to have as much fun as he used to. The remedy for that is............ The WWE needs to let WarriorThug4Cena get in shape,go to pro wrestling school and get into WWE. Let WarriorThug4Cena be with John Cena.... Then the WWE product will improve greatly and bring in---draw more crowds...more money, better shows,more interest in the product,etc. WHAT?!
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