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Post by subject2 on Feb 20, 2007 20:27:15 GMT -5
People are often directing words of hate towards wrestlers ..cena was the main figure of hate...and althgh still gets a fair amount of hate..has been replaced by lashley..but is it really their fault?
I mean its the wwe writers who need 2 be looked at here...fair anough lashley cant talk well..but nor could alot of guys when they 1st start..look at brock lesnar..or even The Rock (his rocky maivia promos wre on par with lashleys) Its the wwe writers who give cena insults like "ham sammitch" and give lashley..."your a bastard" insults!
SO do you think its fair that these guys get all this flack...or should the writers be to blame?
Discuss
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edgehead
Dennis Stamp
Not a Poopyhead
Posts: 4,086 
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Post by edgehead on Feb 20, 2007 20:31:22 GMT -5
Sometimes I just don't see any charisma in the wrestlers. A lot of it can be creative, but for example, The Rock. His talent on the mic could not be forced on just anyone by creative. Good question, but I still think some wrestlers just have "it".
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Garee
King Koopa
I miss the old days
Posts: 11,338
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Post by Garee on Feb 20, 2007 20:33:24 GMT -5
If they are awful than yes, if they don't get a chance then no
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Post by amplifierWORSHIP! on Feb 20, 2007 20:36:11 GMT -5
Sometimes I just don't see any charisma in the wrestlers. A lot of it can be creative, but for example, The Rock. His talent on the mic could not be forced on anyone by creative. Good question, but I still think some wrestlers just have "it". that's certainly a piece of the puzzle.. some wrestlers are devoid of charisma and will therefore not go anywhere but the writing/booking team is probably at the most fault. they've yet to learn accentuating positives and hiding negatives. Lashley can't talk on the mic. what do they do? have him talk. the minute he opens his mouth he is no longer intimidating. they easily could've made him a silent killer with a manager, and maybe more than 1/4 of the crowds in a month of TV would give him more than a mediocre reaction. not to mention bringing up talent while they're still green, which helps no one. |
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edgehead
Dennis Stamp
Not a Poopyhead
Posts: 4,086
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Post by edgehead on Feb 20, 2007 20:37:20 GMT -5
Sometimes I just don't see any charisma in the wrestlers. A lot of it can be creative, but for example, The Rock. His talent on the mic could not be forced on anyone by creative. Good question, but I still think some wrestlers just have "it". that's certainly a piece of the puzzle.. some wrestlers are devoid of charisma and will therefore not go anywhere but the writing/booking team is probably at the most fault. they've yet to learn accentuating positives and hiding negatives. Lashley can't talk on the mic. what do they do? have him talk. the minute he opens his mouth he is no longer intimidating. they easily could've made him a silent killer with a manager, and maybe more than 1/4 of the crowds in a month of TV would give him more than a mediocre reaction. not to mention bringing up talent while they're still green, which helps no one. That is a good point. |
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Post by subject2 on Feb 20, 2007 20:37:41 GMT -5
People always call lashley 'Black lesnar'....but at this point in his career..wasn't brock over?...i dont recall him having many mic skills...and he was another guy who people said had 2 softer voice for his badass look!...
MANY people on these boards love brock and wish he would come back...but what if he hadn't have been brought in as an unstoppable heel with paul heyman as a mouthpiece..what if they brought him in as a face...on his own..going off his amature background?...he'd have been exactly where lashley is now.Same as if lashley debuted by interering in matches as a badass heel with Armando as a manager..or even Heyman as a foil for RVD in ECW..he wopuld prob be totally over with the fans at this point!...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2007 20:38:06 GMT -5
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.
In a case like Lashley, yes it is his fault. He's had every opportunity to shine by being pushed hard and given promo time...and hasn't drawn interest. Nothing that he's been given is something that only a certain person could pull off.
Usually the cases it isn't the wrestler's fault is when they're pulled too early before they get their chance. For example Rene Dupree in ECW had a couple backstage segments, won like 2 pointless matches and is now jobbing with no more promos or direction to his character. He may or may not have gotten over, but he wasn't really given enough time to build anything to generate interest thus he never got the opportunity to begin with.
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Post by MGH on Feb 20, 2007 20:38:38 GMT -5
If a talent is given a fair shot and manages to screw it up himself through bad matches or bad promo delivery or lacking charisma or what have you, then yes it's his fault.
If he's booked like s*** and never given a fair shake, I can't blame the talent.
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Post by bshadye413 on Feb 20, 2007 20:40:17 GMT -5
i think it depends on the situation. For example, Lashley--honestly I dont see anything special about him at all. From what I can see, we as fans have no particular reason to care about him. Its the writers job to make us care about a wrestler, but in his case theres really not much to work with, IMO. So i'd say its Lashley's fault.
Shelton--beloved wrestler in the IWC. Has the skills, but no charisma. Thats not something that creative can give him, you either have it or you dont.
On the flipside, take Raven--arguably the most misused wrestler in WWE history. He was over huge with his ECW following, had the charisma, mic skills, and could wrestle. But WWE never gave the casual fans a reason to care about him. No question in my mind he could have been a huge star for them, but for some reason it never worked out. In that case I blame creative.
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Post by thesunbeast on Feb 20, 2007 20:42:55 GMT -5
It's been said before, and I agree against popular belief, that the IWC and other fans will get behind someone when their working their way up, but once they make it to the top, the fans turn on them. There are just too many examples.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Feb 20, 2007 20:46:31 GMT -5
Two words:
Gunner Scott.
Brent Albright was screwed, BADLY, by creative. Thrown out there with no gimmick and barely any matches, jobs a few times, and then gets fired because he "didn't get over." How BS is that?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2007 20:46:34 GMT -5
Yes and no. Rocky Maivia (sp)/The Rock and Shelton Benjamin are a good example of this, IMO.
Rocky was shoved down people's throats and the people hated him. This was a good example of not getting over being creative's fault. They didn't see the changing times or even react to it until the hatred was out of control and they had to make a change. Thankfully they finally made him heel and one of the greatest entertainers in wrestling history was born.
Shelton was given the world when he came to RAW. He had 3 or 3 wins over Triple H, a load of TV time and a good push yet he did nothing with it. He didn't try to step his game up. He had good matches but, nothing great and he didn't even try to improve or even try on the mic. When the fans didn't respond, creative gave up on him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2007 20:48:31 GMT -5
Two words: Gunner Scott. Brent Albright was screwed, BADLY, by creative. Thrown out there with no gimmick and barely any matches, jobs a few times, and then gets fired because he "didn't get over." How BS is that? They did the same thing with Heel Burchill (before pirate gimmick). He beats up S2H a couple times, then when he doesn't garner massive heel heat because of beating on a jobber, he is immediately depushed. |
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Post by thesunbeast on Feb 20, 2007 20:52:25 GMT -5
Another point, some wrestlers will indeed have the charisma, the athleticism, the look, mike skills, and absolutely everything it takes, including multiple pushes, and still make it no where, simply because the fans didn't feel "It". It's really about the fans.
Billy Gunn is a perfect example of this.
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Post by demolitionax on Feb 20, 2007 20:52:37 GMT -5
Well, sometimes the WWF/E put out some really dumb characters. Look at Hardcore Holly. He was Thurman "Sparky" Plugg, "His friends call him Sparky." Then Bob "Spark Plugg" Holly. Then Bodacious Bob or whatever. The only gimmick that put him over was the Hardcore Holly gimmick. He is in phenominal shape and is much more convincing as a performer under the Hardcore Holly character.
There again, WWF/E wastes alot of talent too. Big Show and Vader are prime examples. They were two big guys who were over. Yet, they made them into midcarders at best. Vader should have dominated. OK, that's my 2 cents...
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Post by American Nightmare on Feb 20, 2007 20:54:37 GMT -5
People always call lashley 'Black lesnar'....but at this point in his career..wasn't brock over?...i dont recall him having many mic skills...and he was another guy who people said had 2 softer voice for his badass look!... MANY people on these boards love brock and wish he would come back...but what if he hadn't have been brought in as an unstoppable heel with paul heyman as a mouthpiece..what if they brought him in as a face...on his own..going off his amature background?...he'd have been exactly where lashley is now.Same as if lashley debuted by interering in matches as a badass heel with Armando as a manager..or even Heyman as a foil for RVD in ECW..he wopuld prob be totally over with the fans at this point!... If Lesner was a face, hed STILL sell a leg being worked on the whole match. Comparing the two is like apples and turds. |
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Agent P
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wooo
Posts: 18,180
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Post by Agent P on Feb 20, 2007 21:22:26 GMT -5
Any wrestler can get themselves over, even with crappy creative direction. Note The Spirit Squad. Come on, it was 5 male cheerleaders. Nobody gave it any chance at succeeding, but the 5 of them busted their butts to get it over, and became one of the hottest heel acts in the company for a few months.
Cena, as much as we lambast him, is given poorly scripted promos week after week, but he finds a way to make it work.
Creative didn't tell Heel Birchall and Gunner Scott to walk out to the ring emotionless, but they did, and now that's Creative's fault.
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Post by #Classic Hi-Definition X on Feb 20, 2007 21:24:52 GMT -5
Yes, sometimes. It would be in the case that a wrestler doesn't connect with the fans for some reason after being given many chances. Other times the blame lies on the creative for either saddling them with a stupid gimmick or forcing them on fans. There can also be times when both the wrestlers and creative are to blame.
In the case of Lashley, I can't say that it's entirely his fault. True, his mic skills aren't all that great and his voice isn't intimidating (he can't help that, though), but he was also pushed much too fast. Fans weren't ready to see him in a main event position. Had he spent more time in the midcard, he probably would've been better off.
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nisi
Vegeta
Da Bears
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Post by nisi on Feb 20, 2007 21:25:49 GMT -5
Creative didn't tell Heel Birchall and Gunner Scott to walk out to the ring emotionless, but they did, and now that's Creative's fault. But the timeframe IS creative's fault. I barely remember "Gunner Scott," it lasted that short an amount of time. Rene Dupree got a grand total of TWO ECW promos before he ran a new jobathon. Pirate Burchill could have gone farther and got pulled fast. |
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Post by subject2 on Feb 20, 2007 21:28:41 GMT -5
I think a heel turn for lashley would've worked wonders..i mean cena id also love 2 see as a heel but totally understand why they'd wanna keep him face for merchandise sales..but lashley could easily be turned..i think its easier for a guy looking like lashley 2 get heel heat than face heat...and thinking about it i would'nt mind a heel lashley VS HBK feud..i act think he would've been better off in umaga's spot on raw...dominating the midcard,feuding with cena etc.
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