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Post by krazysane on Jan 4, 2007 12:23:47 GMT -5
now dec lashley had it, when back in oct of no mercy ppl wouldnt buy into the fact that he was going after booker so they added finley an batista in the match..but now all the sudden bobby has it
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Brock The Octopus
Tommy Wiseau
Any time a man the same size as my mother wins a Heavyweight title, there's something wrong.
Posts: 89
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Post by Brock The Octopus on Jan 4, 2007 12:26:31 GMT -5
I disagree. I think there is an "it", or X or whatever you want to call it, factor. And like was said before, I think it is an ability to connect with the fan. Intensity does play a big part of it. If you watch the promos that Savage and Flair cut at Wrestlemania VIII, they are so intense, and in my opinion excellent promos that showcase "it" in all its glory. At the same time, Jericho always seemed like he was kidding around when he cut promos, but not in that, Rock, what the eff are you doing in my zone way, but rather the, well this is a super fun dance party high school way that jericho did it, and mind you, i love jericho, i just watch and it's clear he doesn't have "it", but i still thoroughly enjoy watching him, and beniot, and all the others that don't have "it", because they are still exceptional wrestlers, but I would rather see someone with "it" win the title.
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Brock The Octopus
Tommy Wiseau
Any time a man the same size as my mother wins a Heavyweight title, there's something wrong.
Posts: 89
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Post by Brock The Octopus on Jan 4, 2007 12:28:02 GMT -5
And lest we forget that lance storm said (in the straight shooting interview) that he thought titles were silly, and that it wasn't that big of a deal, and i think that shows the lack of intensity to get to the top, which does not mean he is a bad wrestler, but rather that he doesn't have that thing, that kinda inexplicable thing that gets you to the top.
(EDIT: I am paraphrasing what he said in the video, but it's similar to that notion)
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Post by RedSmile on Jan 4, 2007 12:28:25 GMT -5
"It" is when the crap that creative throws against the wall, sticks.
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Post by American Nightmare on Jan 4, 2007 12:38:15 GMT -5
now dec lashley had it, when back in oct of no mercy ppl wouldnt buy into the fact that he was going after booker so they added finley an batista in the match..but now all the sudden bobby has it i dissagree, no connection, no mic skills, not much in the ring. He only has his look. Its really tough to reach a connection with the crowd when u cant talk to them. Look at ECW a few weeks back and his promo. He put the people to sleep.
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bigHEADinc
El Dandy
Wanted Conway Twitty as a special title.
lest we forget...
Posts: 7,711
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Post by bigHEADinc on Jan 4, 2007 12:49:12 GMT -5
now dec lashley had it, when back in oct of no mercy ppl wouldnt buy into the fact that he was going after booker so they added finley an batista in the match..but now all the sudden bobby has it i dissagree, no connection, no mic skills, not much in the ring. He only has his look. Its really tough to reach a connection with the crowd when u cant talk to them. Look at ECW a few weeks back and his promo. He put the people to sleep. I think, in his own, hardly-discernible misspelled way, was agreeing that Lashley isn't over, he's just wondering how all of a sudden the WWE thinks he has "it". Chris Benoit is an amazing example of somebody who didn't have "it". Yes, come Wrestlemania 20, he had "it". The crowd went nuts, because his character finally connected and they saw all the hardwork, all the years of being held down finally coming full circle. Afterwards, I think they didn't handle him right, destroying that "it" factor. I do think the crowd still immensely enjoys Benoit, and he always gets solid pops, but unless something special was gonna happen, i can't see him with the belt again.
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Post by therealmamamiller on Jan 4, 2007 12:51:51 GMT -5
I think that when it comes to the WWE the "it" is at least passable mainstream appeal. They don't cater to wrestling fans because they know that for now at least they have us by the short hairs. They are looking for wrestlers that can be mainstreamed into pop culture. I fully believe that the reason JBL got his title run was because of his financial advice book and knowledge of the market. I think Vince got off on being able to say my champion is a published author and financial guru. Wrestlers that are well thought of by true wrestling fans like Benoit well to somebody who just wants to be entertained or is a casual watcher they're boring. The WWE wants to promote wrestlers that will be hired for commercials and movies and make talk show appearances because it strokes the WWE's ego to be a part of pop culture not just wrestling.
My favorite wrestler is The Undertaker and I think that the reason he hasn't held the title more often is because in kay fabe terms the character (although well known out of wrestling circles) wasn't mainstream enough and now I believe the man (Mark Calaway) would not want to be bothered with the trappings that go with a title.
All just my opinion....
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Post by Ultimo Chocula on Jan 4, 2007 13:05:03 GMT -5
"It" is a justification for the booking committee to push a loser or hold back a great worker without putting up any solid evidence.
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Post by Rocky Van Heineken on Jan 4, 2007 13:23:44 GMT -5
I think a lot of what goes into making a wrestler have IT relies on the promotor promoting him.
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STMP
Hank Scorpio
Wild and Only 50
Posts: 5,569
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Post by STMP on Jan 4, 2007 13:53:38 GMT -5
It's difficult to explain (pun definately intended *giggles*)
Because look at Rocky Maivia. Absolute clusterf***. Had some nice moves and a gorgeous high cross body block from the top rope. But didn't connect with the fans at all. Rocky Maivia was the guy with all the tools but he just didn't have 'it'. And then he got injured and then he came back as the cocky heel wich made him the biggest star of the 90's who was even able to become a well known actor.
So how does that work then? Everyone in the entire world will agree that The Rock not only had 'it', he even reinvented 'it'. Stephen King might as well rewrite his book and replace the clown with a samoan/african american wrestler. So how is it possible that Rocky Maivia just didn't have 'it' at all?
The promoter needs to give someone a chance, work the way Heyman worked an only let the wrestlers do what they do best. And if you look at ECW, even The Sandman had 'it'. And Sandman isn't really good at anything. Even Sandmanfans will agree that the best part is his entrance. Yet he clicked with the fans and was pretty much always in the main event.
To me the 'it' factor is the way someone stands out but also how good someone can work with his natural abilities and then it is up to the promoter to fully use those natural abilities. That has been done very well with Goldberg, who was only good at short and very intense matches. And it has been done very bad with John Cena who is a natural smart ass tweener, but is booked as a superface.
In a way every wrestler has their own 'it'. Benoit is definately a wrestler who has 'it'. Very intense, very good wrestler, but a natural cold blooded heel. He did some of his best stuff as a heel. When he is a face, he is missing something. Same thing with Jericho and same thing with Cena.
So the wrestler with the most 'its' will be the best wrestler to book.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 4, 2007 14:28:16 GMT -5
Basically I agree with the people who are trying to explain "it" as that intangable, that X-factor that makes people want to see a certain person.
Raven talked about "it" in one of his shoots, and he couldn't explain it. Nobody can. A lot of the responses I agree with are very vague, because it's impossible to pinpoint what "it" is.
There's this certain something that you just can't teach. That ability to make people stand up and want to watch you. For the people who don't believe there is such a thing, I think that's just a smarky response. There is such a thing as the "x-factor" or "it", and it's not just in wrestling, but it's in acting as well. Some actors have a certain something that you want to watch them on screen, and while other actors may be better, its that x-factor that makes you want to watch them.
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Post by Austin's Middle Finger on Jan 4, 2007 14:35:40 GMT -5
Another guy who's always described as not having "it" is Regal, explaining why he never really became a bigger player in the WWE.
I don't understand this one. If anyone has "it" I'd think it'd be Regal.
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omgking
AC Slater
Doesn't anyone give a s*** about the rules???
Posts: 226
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Post by omgking on Jan 4, 2007 14:35:49 GMT -5
I suggest that Snitsky actually does have the elusive 'It'... he just doesn't have much else to go with 'It'. A Snitsky that could work reasonably well and had a decent look would be a big success, IMHO. In fact, a Snitsky that can work well (yes, in his own way and when he felt like it he could work) and had a good look was Hulk Hogan. Did you just compare Snitsky to Hogan?? I agree that Hogan was a decent worker, better than he gets credit for. But Snitsky couldn't hold Hogan's feather boa.
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Post by Loki on Jan 4, 2007 14:36:57 GMT -5
The "it" factor is one of the "unholy triad of unexplainable concepts of pro-wrestling", together with Workrate and Psychology...
Every fan and probably every worker has a different take on it...
Mine is:
"it" is the ability to connect with the crowd without having to do impressive stuff in the ring or to say something awesome on the mic. And if you make look everything you do real and special.
Obviously such "it" has to be developed by the wrestler and showcased by the bookers.
Some guys had "it" from the get-go, or it was there but had to be groomed a bit (Flair, Hogan, Rock, Austin). Some guys can develop "it" thanks to their in-ring/mic skills, but they need years of solid performances and booking to really shine (Bret, HBK, Benoit, Eddie) Some other guys, as talented and impressive as they may be, just fail to make/keep the crowd interested when they're not doing something really awesome. This may be due to sloppy booking or just because the wrestler isn't "special" [not in the Eugene way] to make the fans care about him.
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omgking
AC Slater
Doesn't anyone give a s*** about the rules???
Posts: 226
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Post by omgking on Jan 4, 2007 14:38:41 GMT -5
People with "It"
Flair Hogan Foley Rock Piper Austin HHH HBK
People who have "It" lite Cena Edge Eddie Brett Jericho
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Ace Baretta
Unicron
WE ARE NASHVILLE (May 1, 2010)
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Post by Ace Baretta on Jan 4, 2007 14:40:48 GMT -5
:It" is not the same thing from person to person.
Hell look at John Cena.
The e average mainstream mark, John Cena has it.
To those of us that truly study wrestling as an artform, Cena doesn't have it.
Jim Ross had a different criteria of "It" than Johnny Ace does.
I have a different definition than you.
"It" is what appeals to the person in charge at the time.
There is no definining "it" factor
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Slapnutz McGee
Trap-Jaw
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Post by Slapnutz McGee on Jan 4, 2007 14:47:49 GMT -5
I always thought of Jericho as missing something. He was great on the mic, good in the ring, and the fans loved him. But anytime he got into the main event picture, something didn't seem right. I might be the only one to agree with you on this. I felt the exact same thing, and I love Chris Jericho. His debut in the WWE with The Rock sends chills down my spine to this day. But...I always felt he was missing just a shred of something to be absolutely huge, like the next Hogan or Austin. Maybe it was his size, just being a little smaller, maybe it was the way he talked, i dunno. Even though I see him as a great performer and a definite main eventer, I felt he would never be able to obtain "icon" status.
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STMP
Hank Scorpio
Wild and Only 50
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Post by STMP on Jan 4, 2007 14:57:32 GMT -5
It or X-Factor in general can be easily explained as 'something that makes someone stand out'
But when you try to explain that, then it will become vague. But every succesfull person, wherever you look, stood out. Sometimes positive (Robert DeNiro, Al Pacino), sometimes negative (Charles Manson, so insane that sad little children wore t-shirts with his face on it). But when you stand out, that is 'it'.
And everyone's succes can be explained that way. To go back to my previous example. Rocky Maivia was just a standard good looking mid-carder. But The Rock was a fresh face and something new that most people had never seen before, his charisma was also above anyone else at the time except Austin who was the polar opposite of The Rock.
You need to stand out, to have 'it'. Be different and make sure people will know you. How that happens and how it works, that is extremely difficult to explain.
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Post by Ultimo Chocula on Jan 4, 2007 15:13:30 GMT -5
Would you pay to see "Wrestler X" in the main event of a major PPV? If the answer is yes then they have "it". That's the best I can do.
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Brock The Octopus
Tommy Wiseau
Any time a man the same size as my mother wins a Heavyweight title, there's something wrong.
Posts: 89
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Post by Brock The Octopus on Jan 4, 2007 15:54:40 GMT -5
je na say qua is another name for it, and i am pretty sure it literally means "i don't know what" or something close to that (which means i probably shouldn't have said literally, but anywho)
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