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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Dec 7, 2007 18:54:59 GMT -5
I'd give him a 9. Would have been a 10 if every single one of his ventures worked, but I don't think any businessman has that. Richard Brandon has his failures, Peter Jones is successful in Britain but got things wrong on occasion before he made millions, then has even had some stinkers since.
To say the man that is almost - or maybe is - a self mad billionaire is anything below a 9 is ridiculous. He made wrestling what it is today, created Wrestlemania, and is still involved with the running of the business that is ever more profitable today, all while playing a highly entertaining character on TV to perfection.
As for the 'he doesn't tweak' idea, his vision would be cartoonish wrestling, but he changed when it was clear the market was moving towards more of a soap opera for men. Argument over, he tweaked, and reaped the rewards.
As for not being very good because he put a 'clearly unqualified' Steph in charge of an important area, what a ridiculous thing to say. If she was unquaified, WWE would be pulling 1's at best and hemmoraging money. She knows what she's doing, and I really don't think there is any evidence whatsoever to claim otherwise. She wouldn't be there if she couldn't do her job. It isn't neptoism, because if you know anything about large corporate business you know you just don't put people in that position if they can't do it. We aren't talking about giving your kid a job in your corner shop here, we are talking about a billion dollar company.
9, easily.
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Post by xwhatx on Dec 7, 2007 19:04:07 GMT -5
hes top of the line.
everyone has there mistakes because business is all about trying things to see what works.
he was in position where he could afford to try something like the xfl and just because he failed shouldnt make it a bad thing because how many tv shows fail on their first season?
his main stuff is what hes been good at, even if he inherited it, and what hes done within that makes him pretty good.
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Post by Thank You Shawn on Dec 7, 2007 19:17:16 GMT -5
right behind Trump.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 7, 2007 19:24:22 GMT -5
I agree big time with the guy who said how Vince didn't run with the InVasion. That to me, is a major factor in why he's not as great a businessman as I'd like to say he is.
For me, he's a 7. Wrestling sense, he survived everything and is now the only major promotion on the block. If he put his ego aside for the InVasion, he would have been a 9 no doubt.
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Schemer
Don Corleone
Total class wit' a capital K!
Posts: 1,950
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Post by Schemer on Dec 7, 2007 19:25:26 GMT -5
He screwed up the invasion angle for Goodness sake! That had the potential to make hundreds of millions of dollars (well, a lot) That's booking, not business. As a booker, he hasn't been any good for about five years. As a businessman, I would rate him as a 7.5-8
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Stotty
Unicron
This is what happens when you don't give Taker the hot tag
Posts: 2,932
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Post by Stotty on Dec 7, 2007 19:31:01 GMT -5
brilliant entertainment promoter and businessman. Makes gutsy decisions, sticks to his guns, doesn't take any crap.
Probably doesnt take the advice of others much, which isn't generally a good thing.
Ultimately, three words sum it up: self made billionaire
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Dec 7, 2007 19:31:37 GMT -5
He screwed up the invasion angle for Goodness sake! That had the potential to make hundreds of millions of dollars (well, a lot) That's booking, not business. As a booker, he hasn't been any good for about five years. As a businessman, I would rate him as a 7.5-8 The whole point of the wrestling business is to book angles that make money and attract big buyrates for PPVs. The InVasion was right there sitting on Vince's lap. Yeah, he maybe couldn't get a proper network for WCW at the time, but he could have worked through it. Jed did it for Rewriting the Book. The fact he didn't and let it become a tag team McMahon match makes him drop a bit in that perspective for me.
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Post by thesunbeast on Dec 7, 2007 22:13:03 GMT -5
I don't think we have actual material or competence to rate McMahon as a businessman. At all. Yeah.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Dec 7, 2007 22:14:43 GMT -5
10. He has achieved what most businessmen never will--utter monopoly over his chosen field. Can't argue with that.
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Post by saggyboyflair on Dec 7, 2007 23:40:13 GMT -5
Its tough to say,he stole all the top talent out of the territories then they go out of business which was good for the "short term. for vince" however, now he is paying for it since there territories were where talent was established. Now there is very few young guys over today. He bought the competition, now has a monopoly on the business which is bad for business, and hasnt been successful in anything other than what his daddy gave him. But then again he did try. Ill give him a 5 or 6. He was going strong there for a while but all of his mistakes than benefitted some years ago is biting him in the arse today. Viewership was almost instantly cut in half since he bought wcw in 01. Ratings went from in the 6's -8's down to the 1's-3's. When Vinnie Mac kicks the bucket, I wouldnt be so sure if wwe will survive, however. Triple H and Steph running the biz? I dunno... I dont like their future once Vince is gone. Especially if TNA become competitors in the next couple of years. Which could very well happen if they keep improving their product, establishing new stars, and stealing some from WWE, enticing them with an easier work schedule.
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Massive G
Hank Scorpio
yo hago esto
Posts: 6,224
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Post by Massive G on Dec 8, 2007 1:01:24 GMT -5
8, 9 maybe. The guy is rich. The only reason it's not a 10 is because of the XFL and that bodybuilding thing.
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Post by Rocky Van Heineken on Dec 8, 2007 1:18:15 GMT -5
I'd give Vince a 9. The WBF and the XFL may have flopped, but it didn't stop him from trying new things like WWE Films.
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Dec 8, 2007 1:54:10 GMT -5
As for the 'he doesn't tweak' idea, his vision would be cartoonish wrestling, but he changed when it was clear the market was moving towards more of a soap opera for men. Argument over, he tweaked, and reaped the rewards I'll admit he tweaked his product during the Attitude era, but let's not pretend he did that because he thought it was a good idea. He tweaked out of survival. However, once no one was a threat to him, he went back to big men, cartoonish gimmicks, and his always failing non-wrestling ventures. If Vince isn't threatened or trying to take something over, he rests on his laurels. He needs a challenge to be an effective businessman. I also don't think he's really happy unless he's trying to achieve some larger goal. It kind of reminds me of how Alexander the Great wept when there was nothing left for him to conquer.
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General Zod
Samurai Cop
KNEEL!
KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!
Posts: 2,163
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Post by General Zod on Dec 8, 2007 2:48:58 GMT -5
The ability to be ruthless and put your competitors out of business does not a great businessman make. I'm surprised by the answers thus far in this thread.
Obviously, the terms "business ethics" and "professional wrestling" don't always go hand in hand, although in today's world, and especially in today's market, they should be almost exclusive. If the WWE wants to be a publicly traded company on Wall Street; if they want to be responsible to a board, issue shares of stock, and have a true global presence as an entertainment brand, then they should be held accountable by the very same high standards other public businesses are measured by.
Nothing - and I repeat nothing - is more valuable to a public company than direct competition. Without direct competition, company stock value can neither greatly increase, nor steadily continue an increase. And once it dips below a certain mark, it's very difficult to gain steam in a quick manner again. Monopoly is a game made by Parker Brothers. Want to trade on the market? You better have something better than TNA to answer with. Not knocking the TNA product, but it's virtually a non-entity in terms of putting a similar, viable product on the market to measure the WWE's true worth.
And before I get cut off, for the naysayers out there - those who would argue that his competition comes from other venues of entertainment, such as South Park, Ringling Brothers, or KISS - I call 'BS'. The only direct competition one could accurately draw a comparison to product-wise is another wrestling company. I don't care what Vince McMahon said on the Beyond the Mat documentary. Of course he bills himself to be bigger and better than his product is. He has to. It's his job. That doesn't mean at the end of the day that he isn't full of his own shit. Revisionist history and positive corporate spin doesn't change the fact of what he does, or where (and how) his success and fail rate is gauged.
Now, his stock is fairly even for the time being. The biggest reason is because business isn't failing right now. That doesn't mean it's moving forward at any great rate, either. Being able to keep a popular brand of entertainment with a solid and loyal fan base afloat for any ascernable time isn't terribly difficult either. I'd like to think that after 30 or so years of working as a promoter, he learned *something* from those he worked with and/or put out of business.
Vince McMahon is unrankable as a businessman. WBF. ICO PRO. The XFL. WWE Films. All of them miserable business ventures. Even the WWE (which was initially his father's company) is something he didn't create from the ground up. He didn't invent wrestling, or anything. He simply had a different approach, which to many degrees was very successful.
However, when that success comes full circle, and is eventually responsible for your stagnancy, with no visible 'outs' to speak of, one can hardly call him an effective, or even a successful businessman.
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The F'N Captain
King Koopa
I was captain **** till Captain America Beat the crap out of me and left me in a dumpster
Posts: 10,929
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Post by The F'N Captain on Dec 8, 2007 4:14:42 GMT -5
There's a huge difference between being a promoter, a booker, and a business man.
As a promoter, he's a phenomena. He took what was once a territory based attraction and made it a worldwide spectacle that has three prime time aired shows.
As a businessman, he's above average, but sometimes over eager. His biggest problem is his failures are more public than other million/billion(yeah right)aires and sometimes more exaggerated because of his onscreen persona.
As a booker he flip flops from brilliant to almost laughably out of touch.
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Jack
Team Rocket
Posts: 903
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Post by Jack on Dec 8, 2007 5:11:51 GMT -5
He's the best at what he does, no question although I don't think he's a pure businessman in the sense that it's glaring obvious that some of his decisions are made out of personal preference rather than what's in the best interest of the business.
Whereas Gates, Branson and all the other guys will think first "What would be good for the company?" I'm quite sure Vince first asks "What do I want?" then considers it's implications on the business.
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Post by Rocky Van Heineken on Dec 8, 2007 14:18:24 GMT -5
Vince McMahon is unrankable as a businessman. WBF. ICO PRO. The XFL. WWE Films. All of them miserable business ventures. Not necessarily. The first two WWE films made a profit and they just broke even on the Condemned with rentals.
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Post by EvilShadow76 on Dec 8, 2007 14:38:07 GMT -5
5
Everything he's tried outside of wrestling has been an epic failure. The man should stick to what he knows and that is wrestling. He shouldn't be trying to create football leagues or a films division or anything else he's tried to do.
Stick to what made you the success you've become. Don't try to tackle things you know nothing about. It's failures like the XFL that makes people not take Vince McMahon or WWE seriously.
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Post by jfpierce on Dec 8, 2007 14:50:53 GMT -5
He's limited by his ego. If he could just accept that he's not untouchable and can't always have things exactly as he wants them, his company wouldn't have lost it's name and he'd have a better TV deal from never leaving USA in the first place. Much like Donald Trump, Vince proves that you can make some ridiculously bad decisions and still make a ton of money.
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Post by nerdinitupagain on Dec 8, 2007 15:52:34 GMT -5
Vince is great at sustaining and growing a business, but fails at the hardest thing to do in business... succesfully create your own.
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