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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 11, 2007 6:47:34 GMT -5
I'm not voting in this thread until somebody restarts the 1-10 scale and introduces a "16" button to click on...if we're talking Flair in his prime.
This afternoon, if 1985 Ric Flair could somehow show up randomly at your parents' house, 1985 Ric Flair vs. Your Dad would be the 2007 U.S. PPV Match of the Year (by Meltzer). Flair would totally make it look like Your Dad was going to win, but he retains the NWA World Title in a 60-minute draw. And it'd be awesome.
20 minutes in, the neighbors would call the cops because Flair's really working over Your Dad's leg. The cops would then try to get Flair to stop chopping Your Dad and working on said leg. But then, those same cops would get so caught up in the entire spectacle and big fight atmosphere that once Your Dad reverses the Figure Four (and the fact that Flair bladed himself to make Your Dad look like a champ), everybody in the neighborhood will be screaming until the bell rings, and 1985 Flair escapes by the skin of his teeth.
Standing ovation by the neighbors, cops, you, and even Your Dad.
Then, 1985 Flair takes your entire neighborhood back to his suite at The Marriot, down to the bar, over to the Waffle House, back to the bar, back to his suite, makes out with Your Mom with Your Dad's permission. Then he gets up, and does the same thing in another city 300 miles away on only four hours sleep.
I barely included any embellishment. Ric Flair was THAT awesome in his prime. Whoo.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 11, 2007 4:34:49 GMT -5
Hate to say anyone's "too small", but Kendrick is so small that if you've never watched him work ROH/indies as a single, it's really hard (for me) to buy into him as a credible threat otherwise in WWE Land. Just playing Devil's advocate here.
Yeah, he's taller than Rey, but Rey has a masked superhero gimmick and has been jacked up on roids 85% of the time since 1996. Spanky's a guy that's almost perfected his particular style, but still looks like a 7th grader. He's lucky that some girlies find him handsome, or he'd be as bad off in the long run as Spike Dudley. Yet, London seems so off-beat that he could break out on character stuff alone. Could be wrong, but I haven't seen untapped goofiness like some of London's stuff since 1996 Chris Jericho. A turn as a geeky, but hip heel would do London some good (like it did Jericho).
But I do think both have more upside in a sports-entertainment promotion than Marty Jannetty. Jannetty was a really solid, sometimes exciting worker in his prime, but he always gave off a vibe like he's one of those uncles or teachers that's just trying to fit in and "be cool".
But he seems like a NARC, so it never works. It's worse when you exude that bad vibe when you're in your mid-20s, like Jannetty did in the 1980s. It's even worse that poor Jannetty was the one who kept having to be repackaged as a Rocker, to the point that he still wrestles with tassles, bandanas, and shit on the indies into his 40s.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 11, 2007 4:48:50 GMT -5
Considering that Vince grew up with his mom living in a redneck trailer park in North Carolina, I'm gonna go with hillbillies/rednecks. We haven't seen too many hillbilly/redneck characters on TV throughout the years in WWE, save for about 75-100 of them.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 10, 2007 23:00:58 GMT -5
I sort of disagree with the "at least this didn't ruin Kennedy" sentiments. I think Kennedy's charismatic enough and talented enough on the stick to have shaken any negative long-term stigma associated with being "McMahon's son". And if he couldn't have shaken the stigma, and he were eventually fired from WWE or left for somewhere else, who's to say that being marked forever as "Vince's son" would've worked out in a bad way for Kennedy? He could've used that as an interesting angle when he entered somewhere else.
He could have it bite WWE in the ass by still playing up the fact that he was "Vince McMahon's son" if he wanted to, and worked it right, sort of like how Bischoff used Scott Hall to name drop those cheesy-ass Billionaire Ted and Nacho Man WWF skits in his first Nitro promo...but "from the WWF's side". Vince McMahon's "son" trying to get a job in ROH or TNA would be fun. Use Vince's own bad ideas against him. Kennedy wouldn't be able to call himself "Mr. Kennedy" outside of WWE, but he could've always alluded to being "Vince's son" (with a wink). That label wouldn't have Red Rooster'd Kennedy's career if he chose to use it to his advantage, and he's one of the few performers entertaining enough to make that bad idea work in his favor.
But yeah, Hornswoggle is kinda lame, and they telegraphed the hell out of it with the "he has a fondness for gold" second clue. From there, it felt like waiting ten more minutes for a dumb payoff...and I love how HHH made sure he was involved on camera the entire time. I can already picture the screencap of HHH patting Hornswoggle's head in the WrestleCrap induction.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 9, 2007 17:34:06 GMT -5
Maybe if HHH were actually funny then that could be part of his character, but does anyone actually laugh at his act? I do I can't stand HHH, never have, never will...but his being caught on camera drinking water at the end of RAW and delivery of "Hi Steph" made me laugh. It's too easy to no-sell someone's humor if you don't like them, so he must have some talent.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 9, 2007 16:42:21 GMT -5
Flair could easily make well over $200,000 a year just travelling around and speaking at corporate luncheons. That's what a lot of retired NFL, NBA, MLB players and coaches do for the majority of their non-pension income. I realize that Flair's not a "real athlete", but there are millions of Ric Flair fans out there, especially businessmen aged 25-60. Corporate speaking gigs usually pay $5,000 a shot. He can't do that sort of stuff while he's on the road full-time with WWE, but he easily could now that he's free.
If Flair quits WWE, he's got a million options for income because he's Ric f***ing Flair. It's not like the guy's gonna be managing a Target.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 6, 2007 20:36:43 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that the 1979 match where Pat Patterson defeated Ted DiBiase in Rio de Janiero, Brazil to be crowned the first-ever WWF Intercontinental Champion is the longest in WWF/WWE history. It lasted three hours and forty-seven minutes. The first couple hours were kind of slow, but the last hour and a half or so was some of the best wrestling I've ever seen.
If anybody wants a copy of this on DVD, send me a message, I'm selling Patterson/DiBiase tapes for $100 each. I know it's a steep price, but they're pretty rare, and you can probably sell them for more later on eBay.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Aug 27, 2007 12:10:21 GMT -5
People love Flair. People hate Cena. You tell me. Correct! Flair is talented. Cena is not. Spot on!!!! Well, it's hard to say. Cena's the #1 guy in the #1 promotion in the world. Flair was the #1 guy in a company that wasn't even #1 in this country. So it's hard to make a comparison. Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahha!!!!! Wow! Wow. Um...no idea how to respond to that one, other than to say...no matter how you want to define it, Flair was the world champion of the #1 company in the world (WCW and WWF). Oh yeah...and Cena will never be as good as him in any way.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 5, 2007 11:47:49 GMT -5
I've read articles with Charlie talking about Russ. So i REALLY doubt that story, as Charlie talked about his family having some hereditary problem... I kinda doubt Charlie is you know.... covering up the DEATH of his OWN BROTHER. No smurfing kidding. I'm willing to bet Charlie is going to be PISSED. Well, Eddie Guerrero had a serious heart condition (massively enlarged heart). And he, like this Russ Haas allegation was taking steroids because he felt he needed to "be bigger" for WWE. I really don't see what's so hard to understand about that. Nobody held Eddie down and made him take steroids (nor did they Russ Haas if this is true), but it's easy to imagine why they may have felt like they needed to. "No smurfing kidding"? Well, you'd be willing to bet that Chavo was going to be PISSED at steroids leading to Eddie's heart failure, but no. In fact, according to Sports Illustrated, Chavo was so PISSED that he just went and ordered more steroids for himself, just like Eddie's best friend Chris Benoit, who was another little guy that felt he needed to "be bigger". Weird.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 6, 2007 20:28:04 GMT -5
Why does Michaels always wear those man blouses? At least he doesn't wear them with a full suit. (Batista)
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 4, 2007 5:11:41 GMT -5
Now that we know the hint...
-Even though they said it's a WWE superstar, which means it could be from any brand, it's going to be someone from the RAW brand. That's where the storyline's been focused, and that's where they'll continue it on TV. Logically, that eliminates Khali and Hornswaggle.
-It's not Big Show, because he's not going to fly in to TV every week on short notice just to do skits with Vince.
So to me, the logical RAW candidates are Sandman and Snitsky. Both make sense, since they're both crude guys that are the opposite of Vince's polished corporate persona. Realistically, the only shelf life this angle has left lies in them trying to make it "funny", with the son being a fish out of water type that Vince tries to bond with. Eugene would've been an emergency fallback that fit in this category, except they just fired him.
Plus, you can do more with Sandman's character than Snitsky, since they're still trying to push Snitsky as an unstoppable monster in the ring, whereas Sandman's a comedy figure. Also, the "things are looking up" is a better hint for Sandman standing up in the crowd than it is Snitsky (who's only sort of tall).
So yeah, it's Sandman. Since this was a fallback choice (i.e.: Not Kennedy), it'll be a slight letdown. So, they'll rush the angle since it can't go as it planned, do skits for a few weeks, it won't work, and eventually blame Sandman for their writing team's bad creative execution. Then, they'll keep him around for a little while longer, pretending the angle never happened, before eventually wishing him the best in his future endeavors.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 5, 2007 13:35:21 GMT -5
Flair was a pretty good booker in 1989 NWA/WCW. That year was balls. Flair-Steamboat, Flair-Funk, the rise of The Steiners, Muta's first great push under the gimmick that he was The Great Kabuki's "son" (which Muta evolved into a gimmick that would define his career), and a promotion built around tons of great matches.
His tenure only started to get crappy as his vision for WCW clashed with Jim Herd's vision, which included more and more kiddie gimmicks and Road Warrior rip-offs.
Flair did have a booking vision that he wanted WCW focused around a serious, NWA World Title division built around himself, Steamboat, Funker, Sting, Luger, and was trying to get Herd to open up Turner's wallet and sign Kerry Von Erich, then steal away Ted DiBiase and Curt Hennig from WWF, since Vince didn't lock guys up in contracts like he does now.
Bret Hart and The Rockers also flirted with jumping to WCW more than once from 1989-92, and Flair supposedly pushed the brass to bring them in too when he got the book...but instead of opening up the Turner pocketbook to lock up much of the best and most promising talent in the business (which WCW would do five and six years later), Herd cheaply appeased Flair by signing some of his low-priced veteran cronies like Dick Slater, Butch Reed, Bob Orton, JYD, Dick Murdoch, The Iron Sheik, etc.
If Herd would've listened to Flair's original vision for WCW in 1989 when he was booking, that could've been one of the greatest in-ring promotions in wrestling history, especially when directly compared to WWE's cartoon steroid clown show back then. I'd figure if Flair booked today, he'd show the same appreciation for great matches and great, well-rounded talent that he showed back in the day. For a guy who supposedly held down young talent, he was a hell of an office proponent for guys like Sting, Scotty Steiner, Muta, and Brian Pillman when he got the book in 1989. And hell, Flair used to do stuff like book himself against Bobby Eaton for 30 minutes, if for no other reason than he thought people would have fun watching two guys have a great match.
Flair's other tenure as booker (1994) was forever tainted by his push for Bischoff to sign Hogan, only to let the Hulkster walk all over him and Vader. Reading old issues of the Torch, it seems as if that were the biggest frustration with Flair's booking from newsletter writers and fan feedback, was that Flair would just allow Hogan & his friends like Beefcake and Duggan to walk all over everybody in WCW.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 5, 2007 4:06:17 GMT -5
I read in a SD community on livejournal that the Torch reported that Flair asked for his release, but that WWE didn't grant it. This is the only thing reported so far by PWTorch WWE News: Ric Flair quits WWE, both sides trying to work things outBy Wade Keller, Torch editor Sep 4, 2007, 21:40 Ric Flair has quit WWE over frustration with his push and a lack of any encouraging communication from the front office.
There are now discussions to try to talk him into cooling off and agreeing to not quit.
His situation doesn't appear to be at all related to the suspensions, although he's now more valuable with some names being gone for a month.
If things don't work out, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Flair could be offered a sweet and tempting deal to be part of TNA's two hour launch. TNA is interested and aware of the situation._______________ End of their report. This could get interesting as he was considered to be such a WWE lifer at this point, that who knows what his actual current contractual agreement was. It's been over five years since he initially signed with WWE. None of the Time Warner contracted guys Flair came in with are still there (Hogan, Goldberg, The Outsiders, DDP, Scott Steiner), nor did any of them stay particularly long. I wouldn't assume that Vince would've locked Flair up any more than any of those guys for any long period, since you could argue that Flair had the least to offer WWE in 2002, and by 2003, he was the least obvious threat to ever leave for any reason. Even Hogan was working Wrestlemanias and Summerslams on a handshake agreement with Vince. People are rarely ever reported as "quitting" WWE. That's why this is interesting. Flair showing up on the first two-hour TNA Impact in October wouldn't make too much of a difference in the grand scheme of things (because TNA's too far underneath WWE's radar), but it'd be pretty cool for wrestling in general to have something wild like that happen. Especially if TNA handed the guy a mic for five minutes. Not to shoot. Just to be Ric Flair, damnit.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 5, 2007 1:29:22 GMT -5
Given the timeline of Flair quitting the WWE on 8/21, I think he must have been reading the boards two weeks ago when me, Joey Only, Chickenwhopper, and others were debating whether or not he deserved another World Title run on Smackdown.
Let's face it, because Flair always danced all night long, kissed all the girls, made 'em cry, and drank like a widemouth bass along the way, he looked about 35 years old when he was 25, looked 45 when he was 35, 55 when he was 45, and um...looks really old now that he's 58. But the guy can still go, and does just as much or more in the ring than most of the WWE roster (and I'd include HHH and Orton). And due to the miracle of anti-aging medicine, which is what you're allowed to call HGH when you're past 55, he looks as good or better than he did physique-wise in 1998.
And there's a reason why he still pops some of the biggest ratings on Smackdown, even though... 1. He never talks anymore. 2. He's not around only twice a year for nostalgia pops like Hogan, but a weekly character.
That reason is, people like to watch Ric Flair wrestle. Vince doesn't get it now. Jim Herd didn't get it in 1991. Shane Douglas didn't get it in 1994. Bischoff didn't get it in 1998. Scott Steiner didn't get it in 2000. Some of the IWC don't get it anymore. But it's a fact, and the old man has rating quarter hours as recent as a month or two ago that back up his pouting over his push.
I really don't get where people on here say Flair doesn't "do anything" in the ring anymore. The guy's got more five star matches than any other American worker, yet he's ALWAYS had less moves than Cena. And he can still pull off every single move in his repertoire from 1981. He was never a highlight reel, or a showstopper on offense. But the cat knows more about facial expressions, psychology, intensity, and pacing than roughly 100 Randy Ortons. Still does.
If Flair wants to wrestle till he's 70, let him. The Funks do, and IMO, Flair's more famous, legendary, and better than both (separately). Flair could help out ROH, TNA, do some Japan spots, help out some indies. Hell, he could go to the WWE about five different times before he hangs it up. I've got no problem with him wanting to forge on. He doesn't have much left in the tank, but whatever he's still got left is better than most. And that's why his matches are still ratings draws on the WWE's Friday Night wrestling show, even though the shows largely watched by little kids who never saw Ric Flair in his prime, or even probably get why he's such a big deal.
In conclusion, whoo.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 5, 2007 4:41:44 GMT -5
I'd mark for The Bad Guy.
A) Because Hall would undoubtedly have to have his shit together for Vince to ever give him another chance in that environment. B) He's Scott Hall. I think sooner or later, we'll see the Real Razor Ramon make a cameo in a backstage skit.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 5, 2007 2:45:00 GMT -5
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 2, 2007 9:38:14 GMT -5
Sadly, this guy's career is tainted on a national TV level unless somebody comes up with a great idea quick. Just going back to Nick Dinsmore, and winking/nodding at the audience about his past and/or "shooting" isn't going to help.
Whether the Eugene gimmick was his idea or not, that's a really brutal idea for his character to segueway out of...
Ideas?
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 1, 2007 22:12:49 GMT -5
How much of a cock do you need to be to sue your best mate? If I was probably going to be paralyzed and/or die because of the incredible jackoffness of my "best mate" (whose driving was publically encouraged by his rich father), I'd say I wouldn't have to be that big of a cock. But then again, I may never know the difference in my cockitude since I'd already sustained possible permanent brain damage. I'm sorry if I cross any lines on the board by saying this, but I'm repulsed by the brashness and lack of sympathy in the above quote.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 2, 2007 9:29:02 GMT -5
1. No, he does not get tested. 2. He performs on WWE television, so technically, he should. 3. He makes the rules.
Wonder how #'s 1-3 will be explained in front of Congress...
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 2, 2007 9:07:52 GMT -5
I really hate to admit this, and I should save it for one of the "Honesty" threads, but I thought Kronik was money when they first debuted together in WCW. Clark and the late-Bryan Adams weren't clueless to working an entertaining style for big men as singles, and it was times two. When facing the right opponents (smaller guys), they could be entertaining.
Put these guys in the era of 1985-1990, and Baba could've booked them to win the All-Japan Real World Tag League, and gone down as IWC/smark legends. Or at least slightly below the Road Warriors, but a notch above Demolition, without resorting to the two-man, kickass, face-paint, power team gimmick.
But Kronik's legacy as a team was ruined by the crappiness of WCW when they were there, combined with their botched WWE run. Not all their fault.
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