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Post by angryfan on Aug 5, 2007 5:32:42 GMT -5
Truth be told, I’m not sure what I set out to do with this, although part of the motivation had to do with the argument we’ve bantered about for some time, on just how much TNA had fallen into the same pattern as WCW. So, being as I’ve got a ton of time on my hands, I decided to do research, to maybe sort out exactly how everybody measures up, so to speak.
So, I started out looking into TNA and WCW’s world title histories, but it just didn’t seem right to not at least check the WWFE during similar times, so those numbers are included as well. For argument’s sake, the date chosen was Slaughter’s title win in 1991, as it occurred mere days after Flair was declared the first “official” WCW champion.
Included also is a rundown of ECW’s championships, starting with the NWA title tournament, where ECW became Extreme, and the NWA title was thrown down. Also of note, concerning Rhyno’s title run, the dates used were his win at Guilty as Charged until the day bankruptcy was official on April 4, 2001.
So what does all this mean?
One need only look at the longest reigning champions for all four companies, in terms of total time, to see the comparisons of TNA and WCW actually have some merit.
In the last 16+ years, there have been two individuals who have had title reigns that have totaled more than 1,000 days put together. Those two are Hogan in WCW and Jarrett in TNA. No one else comes within four months of reaching that number. What makes these two runs all the more shocking is the short time in which they were accomplished.
Hogan joined WCW on July 17, 1994 and, from that point until his departure on July 9, 2000 (a span of some 2,184 days, he held the WCW title for 1,076 days. By contrast, the second most days spent by anyone, in total, as WCW champion is not even half the above amount. Next behind Hogan is Flair, who, from the “official” declaration of the WCW title on January 19, 1991, held the belt for a total of 501 days, followed by Vader (377 days) and Lex Luger (235 days), No one else in WCW’s existence (1991-2001) held the title for as many as 200 days. The closest to reaching that point was Goldberg at 174 days.
By contrast, in the six years of Extreme Championship Wrestling (1994-2001), a total of fiver performers reached the 200-day total. They were Shane Douglas (508), Raven (378), Sandman (288), Taz (261), and Mike Awesome (201).
Jarrett, meanwhile, was with TNA from its outset on June 19, 2002, and remains so to this day. In that time, a span of some 1,872 days, he has held the NWA-TNA title for 1,011 days. That’s more than 54% of the company’s existence. His nearest successor is none other than Christian Cage, at a whopping 215 days as champion, followed by A.J. Styles (196) and Ron Killings (118). No one else in TNA’s history has managed to hold the title for as many as 90 days, with Raven coming the closest at 88 days.
Contrast that to WWFE, where, for as much flack as Triple H has taken (from myself included), his total time holding the belt of 870 days is closely followed by Cena (756 days and counting), Hart (653 days), and Austin (529 days). In the 16+ years under observation, a total of 10 individuals have logged a minimum of 300 total days with the some combination of the WWF, WWE, or World Heavyweight titles.
Compare that to TNA and the entire 10 year run of the WCW title where a grand total of four performers logged at least 300 total days with the title. Those four would be Hogan, Flair, Vader, and Jarrett.
For the sake of fairness, we can also look at WWE and TNA from TNA’s inception in terms of the number of champions and their total time with the belt during that period. The length of total days as champion (either WWE, World Heavyweight, or a combination of both) change dramatically. During the five years that WWE and TNA have both been running shows, the order of most days as champion are as follows. Cena (756), HHH (615), Batista (408), and Lesnar (325), JBL (280), and Angle (218).
If you’re scoring at home (or even if you’re by yourself), that’s six individuals with more days as champion than the performer with the second highest total in TNA history. To put that further into perspective, the total difference between Jarrett’s time as champion (1011) and Christian’s (215) of 796 days is 40 days longer than the entire time Cena has held his title, and nearly 200 more days than HHH has held a title during the same period.
Much has been made concerning the desire to attract the 18 to 34 year old demographic. That has been the stated target for years now. However, I find it interesting that, of the four companies, the average age at which a performer is “handed the ball”, so to speak, for the first time, has varied. ECW (taking into account WWECW, and even 61 year old Vince and 53 year old Terry Funk holding the belt) has an average age in its title lineage for first- time champions of 32.
WWE’s median age also comes in at the age of 32. While on the high end of the targeted age range of viewers, this does seem to speak to fans being able to connect to the performers at least on some minor level
TNA hasn’t been far behind, with the average age of their champion upon first capturing the belt being 35 years of age. WCW was the furthest off, at just over 36 on average. .
I realize that what I’ve said here may sound like blind TNA bashing, but I assure you, it’s not. I do see WCW in the shadows, but not in the way that many may perceive it. It’s not about nonsensical matches or odd booking, it’s about talent, how they’re used, and the attitude it reflects.
I look at them, and I can almost here them watching for WWE to release a talent, and saying to each other “sign that guy, he’s better than what we have now”. How else do we explain the almost complete lack of faith in placing a “TNA guy” up front and center, showcasing them as someone special? Ten men have held the Heavyweight title in the last five years. Of those, two (Abyss and AJ Styles) received their first real national exposure and push from TNA. Every other person given that spot has either come from another organization, come out of retirement, or owns the company.
If that’s not at least a little bit worrisome, I’m not sure what is.
I was hoping to include the full lists, but apparently what looks like it’s all lined up in MS Office comes out looking like a crack-addicted monkey typed it out using his nose, so reading it is a bit disjointed. I’ve got the major numbers in the part that I’m posting, but if, for some reason, anybody wants to full numbers, let me know.
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Splinter
Don Corleone
Picard really hates fat kids
Posts: 1,897
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Post by Splinter on Aug 5, 2007 6:39:15 GMT -5
If things continue the way they are the only thing they'll have in common by the end of next year is that Vince Russo will have run them both out of business.
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Post by angryfan on Aug 5, 2007 6:51:44 GMT -5
WEll, the trend was there before Russo came back to TNA. Remember, Dutch Mantel is also there, along with Terry Taylor and BIll Banks, who were also WCW creative.
I'd say the next thing we see is a large exodus, probably within the next year. But, on the bright side, we'll get Jarrett's next run, to give him the longest combined days as champion for any single brand in the last 17 years.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Aug 5, 2007 6:54:48 GMT -5
If things continue the way they are the only thing they'll have in common by the end of next year is that Vince Russo will have run them both out of business. YEAH!!!! OMG Because if TNA gets two hours of TV this fall, and start running more house shows, they'll TOTALLY be out of TEH BUZINEZZS!!!! HAHAHA! SEE YA LATER TNA!!! HAHAHHA!!! Ugh. They sign Test, Dustin Rhodes, Pacman Jones and they're screwed, right? Well, in 2004, they survived signing D-Lo Brown, Dustin Rhodes, and NASCAR's announcer, and now they've somehow grown into getting ad revenue from a major cable network in primetime...NOT paying FOX Sports Net for a weekly Friday afternoon informercial at 3:00pm like they were back in '04. PPV and merchandise revenue has grown substantially since then, too. Relax. |
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Post by angryfan on Aug 5, 2007 7:03:34 GMT -5
Dude, I think you missed my point. It's not who they sign, it's the fact that, whenever they sign someone from the outside, someone who they'd been featuring is dropped nearly off the map. It's the fact that, in five years, we've seen the feature attraction (the X-division, the one thing they had that made them completely different from WWE) turn into a damned sideshow that no one on the booking team gives two damns about. We see one guy under 30 get the chance to be the focal point, and suddenly, after three runs that didn't last a total of six months, he's playing lacky/job boy fill in for a pair of former WWE guys.
To top it off, the fact that the owner (or co-owner, or whatever he officially is now) has had the title for a total of over a thousand days in five years, while the next closest to him has had it for barely 200 overall is not good. We (myself included) slam HHH for his title hogging ways, right? Does it strike you as odd that the difference between Jarrett's time with the title and the next guy closest to him (Christian) is longer than the combined reigns of Trips since 2002?
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Post by Topher is Human on Aug 5, 2007 7:57:09 GMT -5
Dude, I think you missed my point. It's not who they sign, it's the fact that, whenever they sign someone from the outside, someone who they'd been featuring is dropped nearly off the map. It's the fact that, in five years, we've seen the feature attraction (the X-division, the one thing they had that made them completely different from WWE) turn into a damned sideshow that no one on the booking team gives two damns about. We see one guy under 30 get the chance to be the focal point, and suddenly, after three runs that didn't last a total of six months, he's playing lacky/job boy fill in for a pair of former WWE guys. To top it off, the fact that the owner (or co-owner, or whatever he officially is now) has had the title for a total of over a thousand days in five years, while the next closest to him has had it for barely 200 overall is not good. We (myself included) slam HHH for his title hogging ways, right? Does it strike you as odd that the difference between Jarrett's time with the title and the next guy closest to him (Christian) is longer than the combined reigns of Trips since 2002? BUT HHH IS TEH DEVUL! JARRUT IS TEH SAYVYOR Sorry |
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Post by angryfan on Aug 5, 2007 8:03:27 GMT -5
Dude, I think you missed my point. It's not who they sign, it's the fact that, whenever they sign someone from the outside, someone who they'd been featuring is dropped nearly off the map. It's the fact that, in five years, we've seen the feature attraction (the X-division, the one thing they had that made them completely different from WWE) turn into a damned sideshow that no one on the booking team gives two damns about. We see one guy under 30 get the chance to be the focal point, and suddenly, after three runs that didn't last a total of six months, he's playing lacky/job boy fill in for a pair of former WWE guys. To top it off, the fact that the owner (or co-owner, or whatever he officially is now) has had the title for a total of over a thousand days in five years, while the next closest to him has had it for barely 200 overall is not good. We (myself included) slam HHH for his title hogging ways, right? Does it strike you as odd that the difference between Jarrett's time with the title and the next guy closest to him (Christian) is longer than the combined reigns of Trips since 2002? BUT HHH IS TEH DEVUL! JARRUT IS TEH SAYVYOR Sorry Wait, I thought fooseball was. I've been wrong all these years? |
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Post by Topher is Human on Aug 5, 2007 8:12:14 GMT -5
BUT HHH IS TEH DEVUL! JARRUT IS TEH SAYVYOR Sorry Wait, I thought fooseball was. I've been wrong all these years? Fooseball was teh devul? or teh sayvyor? |
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Post by angryfan on Aug 5, 2007 8:15:04 GMT -5
Wait, I thought fooseball was. I've been wrong all these years? Fooseball was teh devul? or teh sayvyor? Fooseball is the debul, Bobbeh! |
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Post by Topher is Human on Aug 5, 2007 8:17:26 GMT -5
Fooseball was teh devul? or teh sayvyor? Fooseball is the debul, Bobbeh! That would explain why that "The Omen" music plays whenever I get a goal... Uhh I think you hijacked your own thread... ah well |
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Post by angryfan on Aug 5, 2007 8:29:18 GMT -5
Fooseball is the debul, Bobbeh! That would explain why that "The Omen" music plays whenever I get a goal... Uhh I think you hijacked your own thread... ah well So really it's not hujacking, it's more like a joyride or something. Perhaps I should start randomly flaming myself, then yell at myself for flaming in the thread, since it's distracting. Then, perhaps make up and go eat bon bons covered in more bon bons or something. Granted, I've never actually eaten a bon bon, but hey, according to Danny Doering's theme, they're super, so how bad can it be? Then later, I'll do a youtube shoot, calling myself out for the original post, and somehow, get into a strange, disjointed Cybil-esque scenario wherein I am making vidoes to answer the videos I made, and having running, obscenity laced tirades with the videos I made previously, all the while playing Domino Rally with an amputated stuffed chimp named Larry who refuses to pay his share of the rent, the cheap bathurd. |
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Aug 5, 2007 8:30:10 GMT -5
Dude, I think you missed my point. It's not who they sign, it's the fact that, whenever they sign someone from the outside, someone who they'd been featuring is dropped nearly off the map. It's the fact that, in five years, we've seen the feature attraction (the X-division, the one thing they had that made them completely different from WWE) turn into a damned sideshow that no one on the booking team gives two damns about. We see one guy under 30 get the chance to be the focal point, and suddenly, after three runs that didn't last a total of six months, he's playing lacky/job boy fill in for a pair of former WWE guys. To top it off, the fact that the owner (or co-owner, or whatever he officially is now) has had the title for a total of over a thousand days in five years, while the next closest to him has had it for barely 200 overall is not good. We (myself included) slam HHH for his title hogging ways, right? Does it strike you as odd that the difference between Jarrett's time with the title and the next guy closest to him (Christian) is longer than the combined reigns of Trips since 2002? Were you replying to me? I was replying sarcastically (at first) to the Russo one-liner under your post. Personally, I think TNA should fire everyone except for Angle, Joe, A.J., Christian, Daniels, LAX, Motor City Machine Guns, Senshe, Lethal, Dutt, Harris, Rhino, Tomko, Abyss, Kaz, and Storm. Then, turn Impact into weekly squash matches with those guys over local jobbers, building them up as huge stars, and cutting interviews against one another. That way, maybe people would pay to see the great talent cross paths on PPV. As far as my bringing up the terrible recent TNA signings, I was saying that they've done far worse and are still here (again, in response to the "Russo running them out of business in a year" post after all of your research). |
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Post by Topher is Human on Aug 5, 2007 8:32:19 GMT -5
That would explain why that "The Omen" music plays whenever I get a goal... Uhh I think you hijacked your own thread... ah well So really it's not hujacking, it's more like a joyride or something. Perhaps I should start randomly flaming myself, then yell at myself for flaming in the thread, since it's distracting. Then, perhaps make up and go eat bon bons covered in more bon bons or something. Granted, I've never actually eaten a bon bon, but hey, according to Danny Doering's theme, they're super, so how bad can it be? Then later, I'll do a youtube shoot, calling myself out for the original post, and somehow, get into a strange, disjointed Cybil-esque scenario wherein I am making vidoes to answer the videos I made, and having running, obscenity laced tirades with the videos I made previously, all the while playing Domino Rally with an amputated stuffed chimp named Larry who refuses to pay his share of the rent, the cheap bathurd. Still more sane than DaxFlame... |
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Post by angryfan on Aug 5, 2007 8:33:08 GMT -5
Dude, I think you missed my point. It's not who they sign, it's the fact that, whenever they sign someone from the outside, someone who they'd been featuring is dropped nearly off the map. It's the fact that, in five years, we've seen the feature attraction (the X-division, the one thing they had that made them completely different from WWE) turn into a damned sideshow that no one on the booking team gives two damns about. We see one guy under 30 get the chance to be the focal point, and suddenly, after three runs that didn't last a total of six months, he's playing lacky/job boy fill in for a pair of former WWE guys. To top it off, the fact that the owner (or co-owner, or whatever he officially is now) has had the title for a total of over a thousand days in five years, while the next closest to him has had it for barely 200 overall is not good. We (myself included) slam HHH for his title hogging ways, right? Does it strike you as odd that the difference between Jarrett's time with the title and the next guy closest to him (Christian) is longer than the combined reigns of Trips since 2002? Were you replying to me? I was replying sarcastically (at first) to the Russo one-liner under your post. Personally, I think TNA should fire everyone except for Angle, Joe, A.J., Christian, Daniels, LAX, Motor City Machine Guns, Senshe, Lethal, Dutt, Harris, Rhino, Tomko, Abyss, Kaz, and Storm. Then, turn Impact into weekly squash matches with those guys over local jobbers, building them up as huge stars, and cutting interviews against one another. That way, maybe people would pay to see the great talent cross paths on PPV. As far as my bringing up the terrible recent TNA signings, I was saying that they've done far worse and are still here (again, in response to the "Russo running them out of business in a year" post after all of your research). That was my bad, dude, I didn't see it, so sorry if I missed the whole sarcasm part. It's all good though, I think I may have hijacked my own thread, and it has now desolved iinto Water Boy quotes and, for some reason, awkward Danny Doering/Cybil references. |
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Post by Topher is Human on Aug 5, 2007 8:34:21 GMT -5
Were you replying to me? I was replying sarcastically (at first) to the Russo one-liner under your post. Personally, I think TNA should fire everyone except for Angle, Joe, A.J., Christian, Daniels, LAX, Motor City Machine Guns, Senshe, Lethal, Dutt, Harris, Rhino, Tomko, Abyss, Kaz, and Storm. Then, turn Impact into weekly squash matches with those guys over local jobbers, building them up as huge stars, and cutting interviews against one another. That way, maybe people would pay to see the great talent cross paths on PPV. As far as my bringing up the terrible recent TNA signings, I was saying that they've done far worse and are still here (again, in response to the "Russo running them out of business in a year" post after all of your research). That was my bad, dude, I didn't see it, so sorry if I missed the whole sarcasm part. It's all good though, I think I may have hijacked my own thread, and it has now desolved iinto Water Boy quotes and, for some reason, awkward Danny Doering/Cybil references. You say that like it's a bad thing... |
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Post by Super Nimieboo on Aug 5, 2007 8:36:16 GMT -5
So really it's not hujacking, it's more like a joyride or something. Perhaps I should start randomly flaming myself, then yell at myself for flaming in the thread, since it's distracting. Then, perhaps make up and go eat bon bons covered in more bon bons or something. Granted, I've never actually eaten a bon bon, but hey, according to Danny Doering's theme, they're super, so how bad can it be? Then later, I'll do a youtube shoot, calling myself out for the original post, and somehow, get into a strange, disjointed Cybil-esque scenario wherein I am making vidoes to answer the videos I made, and having running, obscenity laced tirades with the videos I made previously, all the while playing Domino Rally with an amputated stuffed chimp named Larry who refuses to pay his share of the rent, the cheap bathurd. Still more sane than DaxFlame... I love DaxFlame.  "Who cares? Not me, Grandmother," But yeah, like WCW TNA's got deep pockets behind them. Not as deep as Ted Turner, tho. |
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Post by Topher is Human on Aug 5, 2007 8:39:04 GMT -5
Still more sane than DaxFlame... I love DaxFlame. "Who cares? Not me, Grandmother," But yeah, like WCW TNA's got deep pockets behind them. Not as deep as Ted Turner, tho. The best DaxFlame video would have to be the "dress up day" at school aftermath. Or the one where he hits his head on doorknob during the "earthquake" |
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Post by angryfan on Aug 5, 2007 8:42:12 GMT -5
You know, speaking of hitting your head on a doorknob, I once knew a girl who did that. Well actually she gave he - you know what, nevermind.
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Post by Topher is Human on Aug 5, 2007 8:43:47 GMT -5
You know, speaking of hitting your head on a doorknob, I once knew a girl who did that. Well actually she gave he - you know what, nevermind. Too easy? |
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Post by angryfan on Aug 5, 2007 8:45:24 GMT -5
You know, speaking of hitting your head on a doorknob, I once knew a girl who did that. Well actually she gave he - you know what, nevermind. Too easy? Yes, yes she was. |
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