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Post by Mister Yummy on Nov 3, 2007 2:23:07 GMT -5
What would you think of a professional wrestling group that operated under the same rules as, say, the WWE, but didn't work their matches. That is to say, a 100% Shoot professional wrestling group. It'd basically be MMA with pins done in a ring, with no closed fists and such. I, personally, would love to see this. I wonder how many others would be interested.
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livetowin
Dennis Stamp
Just Keep Walkin'
Don't be negatin'!
Posts: 4,430
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Post by livetowin on Nov 3, 2007 2:34:01 GMT -5
They pretty much already did it with Pancrase.
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Post by Mister Yummy on Nov 3, 2007 2:39:07 GMT -5
What's pancrase? Did they allow pins? Did they disallow closed fists? Did they allow wrestlers to leave the ring for a 10 count, and to use the turnbuckles and such? Did they allow piledrivers?
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dsriggs
Samurai Cop
PHOTOBUCKET!!!!!!!!
Posts: 2,223
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Post by dsriggs on Nov 3, 2007 3:04:24 GMT -5
What's pancrase? Did they allow pins? Did they disallow closed fists? Did they allow wrestlers to leave the ring for a 10 count, and to use the turnbuckles and such? Did they allow piledrivers? Forgive the ignorance, but "shoot piledrivers" How's that supposed to happen??
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messiah
Don Corleone
Wobbly.
Posts: 1,871
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Post by messiah on Nov 3, 2007 5:25:47 GMT -5
What's pancrase? Did they allow pins? Did they disallow closed fists? Did they allow wrestlers to leave the ring for a 10 count, and to use the turnbuckles and such? Did they allow piledrivers? Forgive the ignorance, but "shoot piledrivers" How's that supposed to happen?? You beat a guy into a bloody, life less pulp and then attempt to drop him on his head. Duh.
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Post by Mister Yummy on Nov 4, 2007 0:17:47 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be possible, just legal. It can happen, I've gotten people's heads between my legs fighting before. My brother broke a guys neck with a piledriver in a fight once. He did it differently though. To his knees instead of to his ass. Like a tombstone, but from the regular piledriver position. If you're familiar with No Mercy, it's very similiar to the "Hangman's DDT".
The piledrivers and stuff isn't the point though. The main difference would be the allowance of pins and the disallowance of things like closed fists and heel kicks. The getting out of the ring thing would be an interesting change too. If you're getting beat up, bail out and take a breather.
I read up a bit on pancrease. It looks pretty dull. It's basically like PRIDE. UFC in a ring instead of a cage. It's a step in the right direction, but not quite wrestling. For example, you lose points if you use a rope break, wheras in wrestling, rope breaks are a main part of the strategy, kayfabewise anyhow. Hell, there shouldn't be points at all! If the match goes the time limit, it should be a draw.
When I was younger, my buddies and I did something similiar to my idea, but we didn't allow strikes at all, had no ring, and didn't allow holds and moves that were likely to injure the other person. You'd be surprised how many pro-wrestling style moves and holds are possible in a shoot inviroment. I frequently ended matches with the figure 4 leglock, there were lots of bodyslamsd, verticle suplexes, DDT's, and even an occasional headscissor takedown. I'd love to see how a similiar sport would look with the best wrestlers in the world doing it.
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Post by 'Sweet n' Sour' A. A. Estrada on Nov 4, 2007 0:21:55 GMT -5
Well, there's no rule in UFC saying that you can't drop a guy on his noggin.
The fact is that so many of the moves in professional wrestling can only be done, properly or at all, when both guys co-operate to perform it. It's surprisingly hard to drop a guy in a Brainbuster if he doesn't lift his legs into the air for you and balances his body.
So, it would be UFC, but in a ring. Guys wouldn't be taking chances to brawl sloppily and use the turnbuckles and stuff, because everyone would be dancing around trying to take the guy's legs out and get a flash pin. Boring, in other words.
Real fights are surprisingly ... unentertaining.
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Post by ghettooverlord on Nov 4, 2007 0:59:22 GMT -5
I always felt the one real problem with combat sports (sans those with their emphasis on striking) is that the better the fighters are the more methodical and uneventful the action is. Most forms of grappling are a testament to this.
But then again, maybe I'm wrong. -.-
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Nov 4, 2007 1:20:06 GMT -5
Piledrivers have often been used in MMA
yeah and you're talking pancrace.
Bob Sapp has used the piledriver against Big Nog knocking him loopy. Oh and I'd say that It can be good if done right. Pancrace was awesome because of El Guapo and the Shamrocks. Bas is just so bad ass.
I've seen German suplexes, backdrop drivers, Powerbombs, DDT's, and spinebusters put to use in MMA to maximum effect.
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Post by Mister Yummy on Nov 4, 2007 2:22:07 GMT -5
But Pancrase, unless I've missed something, doesn't allow winning by pinfall.
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Post by Psy on Nov 4, 2007 13:33:46 GMT -5
It sounds like a perfectly terrible idea in my opinion. Pancrase was done, and was entertaining, but I don't think it would translate well in the current market.
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Post by Psy on Nov 4, 2007 13:37:00 GMT -5
Well, there's no rule in UFC saying that you can't drop a guy on his noggin. Actually there is. "18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck"
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Post by Mister Yummy on Nov 24, 2007 16:39:50 GMT -5
I still think this would be a good idea. doesn't anyone agree with me?
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Post by Mayonnaise on Nov 24, 2007 16:44:28 GMT -5
No, sounds like it would be too much of a clusterluv quite honestly. So much of wrestling requires cooperation between the two "opponents" to look real that I don't think it would be possible and look good as well. Plus, even though I love both, I hate seeing injuries and this seems like it would open people up to more and more serious injuries.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 24, 2007 16:52:33 GMT -5
Seems a tad awkward to me. There's no way that a serious, legit fight would resemble a worked pro wrestling match in any form.
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Post by Mister Yummy on Nov 24, 2007 17:05:44 GMT -5
It wouldn't resemble a worked wrestling match. It would simply have the same rules. It'd be just like Pride, but you could win by pinfall. And you'd have to punch with an open hand, and you could leave the ring for a 10 or 20 count, and all the other good stuff about pro wrestling. I think the people who don't like the idea don't understand what I'm trying to say :-(
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Post by voiceboxisback on Nov 24, 2007 18:44:11 GMT -5
Piledrivers have often been used in MMA yeah and you're talking pancrace. Bob Sapp has used the piledriver against Big Nog knocking him loopy. Oh and I'd say that It can be good if done right. Pancrace was awesome because of El Guapo and the Shamrocks. Bas is just so bad ass. I've seen German suplexes, backdrop drivers, Powerbombs, DDT's, and spinebusters put to use in MMA to maximum effect. Inoki has a worked-shoot company going on right now in Japan, I believe the IGF, where Lesnar and Angle just had there last match together.... For example, Rampage did one of the sickest Powerbomb/Slam KO's I've ever seen in Pride against Ricardo Arona while Jackson was stuck in Arona's arm triangle, not to mention Kevin Randleman's infamous "Murderplex" on Fedor. The sickest powerbomb ever: The "Murderplex", and yes Fedor was fine and came back to win the fight in brutal fashion: Now, what was that about MMA being boring?
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Post by voiceboxisback on Nov 24, 2007 18:46:52 GMT -5
It'd be just like Pride, but you could win by pinfall. First, your idea is awful.... Have you ever even WATCHED Pride?? it'd be nothing like Pride by the way you describe it.
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Post by Mister Yummy on Nov 24, 2007 19:15:41 GMT -5
I bring them up only because they're in a ring. What's so horrible about my idea? Imagine, real wrestling, two men seeing who the better man is, trying to sink a pinfall or a submission hold. It'd be great!
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Post by Mayonnaise on Nov 24, 2007 19:21:55 GMT -5
I bring them up only because they're in a ring. What's so horrible about my idea? Imagine, real wrestling, two men seeing who the better man is, trying to sink a pinfall or a submission hold. It'd be great! So basically amateur wrestling moved to a pro ring? Kind of like Real Pro Wrestling from a few years ago that failed twice?
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