To all you "I'm loyal only to TNa/WWE" fans

[dannyrctv]

wow!A whole new generation of young fans have cropped up who missed the Monday Night Wars and the good old days before that when there was lots more wrestling shows to choose from and they were challenging to catch on local syndicated TV!

So now it's WWE vs TNA and people who are loyal to either brand.Just like in the old days I had my favorites.Usually the alternative to WWF was always my choice.When WCW began dominating, WWF became the alternative for a while.

You know what?I love wrestling PERIOD!I watch it all!I haven't been watching either as much.Both shows have their flaws.I prefer TNA as it is the alternative and they call it WRESTLING not "Sports Entertainment" and their "Knock outs" actually can wrestle unlike the majority of the "Divas".
But still I watch any pro wrestling I have access to including the indie promotion I shoot video for "Big Time Wrestling".So we don't need another wrestling war which almost killed the industry let's just enjoy it!We have more wrestling to watch!

[Joekishi]

I don't get people who limit to only watching one type of wrestling.

the more wrestling the better i say.

[jcdenton]

basicboogeynomix said:

I don't get people who limit to only watching one type of wrestling.

the more wrestling the better i say.

agreed. (less XPW or CZW "Style" wrestling)

[Kevin Hamilton]

The war didn't almost kill the industry though. That's when ratings and ppv buys were breaking records. It changed the industry certainly, but money wise the 97-01 was probably healthier than its ever been, and likely ever will be.

That said, I agree with you, I dig all wrestling.

[The Line]

basicboogeynomix said:

I don't get people who limit to only watching one type of wrestling.

the more wrestling the better i say.

Same here. On weeks where I'm not busy at nights(which is few and far between now a days) I'll watch

Raw on Monday
ECW on Tues.
Probably a DVD on Wednesday
iMPACT! on Thursday or Saturday
SD! On friday(not always though)
Lucha on Saturday Morning
Maybe a PPV on Sunday.

Add in other nights where I watch DVDs(I finished up an ROH DVD tonight) and now ROH PPVs, I can watche anywhere from 2-4 different companies a week(5 when WSX was around). And with this NWA show on CoLours that I've been hearing about(when is this supposed to start?), Its possible to watch 5 a week.

I don't understand brand loyalty. Especially when its FREE TV. I can understand saying "I'll only buy WWE/TNA/ROH PPVs/DVDs", but unless you're a Nielson household, you're brand loyalty means ZILTCH. And lots of it.

[kickassforumguyme]

I rarely watch WWE anymore just cause it sucks. I'm not brand loyal and if something cool happened I would tune in again =)

[bradyfan]

I wouldn't call this a war. Once TNA starts getting into the 3 for ratings come see me then.

[Joekishi]

thebluedevil said:

basicboogeynomix said:

I don't get people who limit to only watching one type of wrestling.

the more wrestling the better i say.

Same here. On weeks where I'm not busy at nights(which is few and far between now a days) I'll watch

Raw on Monday
ECW on Tues.
Probably a DVD on Wednesday
iMPACT! on Thursday or Saturday
SD! On friday(not always though)
Lucha on Saturday Morning
Maybe a PPV on Sunday.

Add in other nights where I watch DVDs(I finished up an ROH DVD tonight) and now ROH PPVs, I can watche anywhere from 2-4 different companies a week(5 when WSX was around). And with this NWA show on CoLours that I've been hearing about(when is this supposed to start?), Its possible to watch 5 a week.

I don't understand brand loyalty. Especially when its FREE TV. I can understand saying "I'll only buy WWE/TNA/ROH PPVs/DVDs", but unless you're a Nielson household, you're brand loyalty means ZILTCH. And lots of it.

Seriously.

I also watch puro stuff online in addition to Lucha Libre on the weekends.

I mean there's wrestling on 5-6 days a week. that makes me happy.

Sure not as happy as 1999 when it'd be RAw mon, Thunder wed, Smack thurs, ECW fri, and the syndicated shows on all weekend

[wwefan78]

And to add to this subject..(Sorry if it has been posted before)

TNA Clarification

December 11, 2007

It should come as no surprise to anyone that I received a ton of email regarding my TNA is retarded post. I was surprised however that I actually received more email agreeing with my stance than just outright hate mail from the TNA diehards. Some of the TNA defenders got quite rude with me but I did respond to a lot of them and I think I’ve changed at least a few of their views, after explaining my stance better.

In light of that, I thought I would take the time here to clarify my stance, in a calmer manner, and explain to everyone why I get so frustrated and angry with TNA Impact. Most of the TNA defenders defend the current product with the same argument that argument being that Impact is better than WWE programming, and that WWE sucks as much, or even more, than Impact. To this I say, so what! Whether WWE is putting out a worse product or for that matter the worst product in the history of the planet really shouldn’t enter into the argument.

WWE can do whatever the hell they want. Vince can book leprechauns running through spray painted doorways in cement block walls, Mae Young can give birth to a hand, HHH can pretend to have sex with a corpse, it really doesn’t matter. It’s his show, it’s his money, and at the end of the day Vince is making a shit load of money. When quarterly dividends are paid out, every quarter, to WWE shareholders, Vince McMahon makes about 12 million dollars. His product is a success, whether you enjoy the show or not.

TNA on the other hand is losing money, lots of money, and it has been since its inception. Now several people asked why does it have to be about money, and to that I point out that pro-wrestling is a business and for a business to succeed or even survive, it has to make money or at the very least break even. So if you like TNA and want TNA to exist (which I do more than you could possibly know) you should want TNA to make money, because companies that continually lose money eventually go out of business (Note: WCW).

TNA’s main income stream or at least its biggest potential income stream is PPV revenue. Increased buy rates could generate a huge increase in revenue, for TNA, at no additional cost what so ever to the company. Impact’s primary goal should be to generate interest in TNA PPVs in hopes of driving PPV buys. If Impact fails to do this, Impact is a failure.

So let's look at buy rates. TNA is drawing in the neighborhood of maybe 20,000 buys per PPV. To give this number perspective ECW (WWE’s third brand) at its absolute worst (The December to Dismember PPV) drew approx. 90,000 buys on PPV. This number was considered so bad that Vince McMahon pulled the plug on ECW as a PPV entity, deciding that it wasn’t a strong enough show to carry itself on PPV. TNA is currently doing maybe 25% of that number. Even TNA’s most successful PPV only did approx. 60,000 buys (Angle – Joe 1).

So this brings up the logical question; why is TNA doing such poor numbers on PPV? I would say these numbers are bad for all the reasons I rant about in my TNA commentaries. Confusing nonsensical booking, bait and switch booking, not honouring stipulations and promises, pointless gimmick matches, comedic portrayals of far too many characters, over booking and watering down of everything that could mean anything, etc.

For TNA to draw on PPV they need to start booking some serious angles that consistently make sense that fans can get into. You don’t even have to take my word for it; you can take the word of Jim Cornette. Jim Cornette has far more experience in the wrestling business than I do, and knows more about it than just about anybody. He even works for TNA. The following is what he had to say in a Power Slam magazine interview, several months ago about pro-wrestling and drawing money.

“Every big money gate, every big rating and every bench mark and record in this business is set by something that people can buy into and take seriously and a conflict they want to see resolved. That’s what it’s all about.”

I couldn’t have said it better myself! I can’t buy into “Chris” Abyss going to jail for shooting his father in the back 3 times. I can’t take Kurt Angle in a pilgrim suit seriously, nor do I see what conflict reverse battle royals or brief cases on poles solve. And let’s look at all the conflicts that do exist in TNA: Robert Roode and Tracy Brooks are in conflict, Kurt and Karen Angle are always in conflict, Leticia Cline and the new announce girl were in a conflict that one week, James Storm and Miss Tennessee were in conflict, Jim Cornette and Matt Morgan are in conflict, on the PPV Kevin Nash and Samoa Joe were in conflict.

Are any of these conflicts something we can get behind in hopes of seeing resolved? Of course not! None of the guy - girl conflicts can be resolved in TNA because guys can’t touch the girls so there will never be a match we can pay to see, to resolve these conflicts. Jim Cornette and Matt Morgan certainly aren’t going to work on PPV, and Samoa Joe and Kevin Nash were buddy buddy on Impact last week with no explanation of how their conflict was even resolved. All of this conflict is a waste of time and just a distraction from any conflict that could potentially draw money.

Even look at what has drawn money for TNA. Joe and Angle 1 was the biggest draw in the company's history, drawing nearly triple their usual buy rate. What did they do to draw that number? Kurt Angle showed up on Impact and head butted Joe right in the face and the two guys tried to beat the shit out of each other. It looked very serious; fans bought into it, and wanted to see the conflict resolved. End result: 60,000 buys.

Since then Kurt has sought psychiatric therapy from Kevin Nash in a sun bed, wandered around back stage in his underwear looking for his clothes, argued with his wife and convinced her to try to sleep with Kevin Nash, and held a Thanksgiving dinner in his house (which oddly enough is both in Pittsburgh and only a few short minute commute from the Impact Zone) where he dressed up in a pilgrim suit, and acted like Eric Young’s older brother. The end result of all this great booking: 20,000 PPV buys or less. 2 out of every 3 people who bought Angle – Joe 1, are no longer buying PPV, why do you think that is?

Now is not the time to celebrate killing ECW in the ratings, now is the time to change the creative direction of this show in an attempt to drive buy-rates, and try to make this company money, so it doesn’t become WCW 2. Those who defend this show are part of the problem not the solution. Blind Faith is never a good thing and people need to not only open their eyes but also try to open the eyes of those in charge of TNA. I get mad and rant about TNA because I care about TNA and everyone who works there. I want to see TNA become a viable company financially so it will be around for the long haul. I want TNA to succeed for the good of the fans that watch it, for the good of the boys who work there, and for the good of the industry as a whole. Maybe if we all just scream loud enough someone will eventually hear us. If they don’t, eventually I won’t have TNA to rant about because and the die-hard TNA fans won’t have a show to get behind.

Lance Storm

[Mozenrath]

kickassforumguyme said:

I rarely watch WWE anymore just cause it sucks. I'm not brand loyal and if something cool happened I would tune in again =)

Umm, it kind of shows you haven't watched this year. It hasn't sucked.

[Mozenrath]

wwefan78 said:

And to add to this subject..(Sorry if it has been posted before)

TNA Clarification

December 11, 2007

It should come as no surprise to anyone that I received a ton of email regarding my TNA is retarded post. I was surprised however that I actually received more email agreeing with my stance than just outright hate mail from the TNA diehards. Some of the TNA defenders got quite rude with me but I did respond to a lot of them and I think I’ve changed at least a few of their views, after explaining my stance better.

In light of that, I thought I would take the time here to clarify my stance, in a calmer manner, and explain to everyone why I get so frustrated and angry with TNA Impact. Most of the TNA defenders defend the current product with the same argument that argument being that Impact is better than WWE programming, and that WWE sucks as much, or even more, than Impact. To this I say, so what! Whether WWE is putting out a worse product or for that matter the worst product in the history of the planet really shouldn’t enter into the argument.

WWE can do whatever the hell they want. Vince can book leprechauns running through spray painted doorways in cement block walls, Mae Young can give birth to a hand, HHH can pretend to have sex with a corpse, it really doesn’t matter. It’s his show, it’s his money, and at the end of the day Vince is making a crap load of money. When quarterly dividends are paid out, every quarter, to WWE shareholders, Vince McMahon makes about 12 million dollars. His product is a success, whether you enjoy the show or not.

TNA on the other hand is losing money, lots of money, and it has been since its inception. Now several people asked why does it have to be about money, and to that I point out that pro-wrestling is a business and for a business to succeed or even survive, it has to make money or at the very least break even. So if you like TNA and want TNA to exist (which I do more than you could possibly know) you should want TNA to make money, because companies that continually lose money eventually go out of business (Note: WCW).

TNA’s main income stream or at least its biggest potential income stream is PPV revenue. Increased buy rates could generate a huge increase in revenue, for TNA, at no additional cost what so ever to the company. Impact’s primary goal should be to generate interest in TNA PPVs in hopes of driving PPV buys. If Impact fails to do this, Impact is a failure.

So let's look at buy rates. TNA is drawing in the neighborhood of maybe 20,000 buys per PPV. To give this number perspective ECW (WWE’s third brand) at its absolute worst (The December to Dismember PPV) drew approx. 90,000 buys on PPV. This number was considered so bad that Vince McMahon pulled the plug on ECW as a PPV entity, deciding that it wasn’t a strong enough show to carry itself on PPV. TNA is currently doing maybe 25% of that number. Even TNA’s most successful PPV only did approx. 60,000 buys (Angle – Joe 1).

So this brings up the logical question; why is TNA doing such poor numbers on PPV? I would say these numbers are bad for all the reasons I rant about in my TNA commentaries. Confusing nonsensical booking, bait and switch booking, not honouring stipulations and promises, pointless gimmick matches, comedic portrayals of far too many characters, over booking and watering down of everything that could mean anything, etc.

For TNA to draw on PPV they need to start booking some serious angles that consistently make sense that fans can get into. You don’t even have to take my word for it; you can take the word of Jim Cornette. Jim Cornette has far more experience in the wrestling business than I do, and knows more about it than just about anybody. He even works for TNA. The following is what he had to say in a Power Slam magazine interview, several months ago about pro-wrestling and drawing money.

“Every big money gate, every big rating and every bench mark and record in this business is set by something that people can buy into and take seriously and a conflict they want to see resolved. That’s what it’s all about.”

I couldn’t have said it better myself! I can’t buy into “Chris” Abyss going to jail for shooting his father in the back 3 times. I can’t take Kurt Angle in a pilgrim suit seriously, nor do I see what conflict reverse battle royals or brief cases on poles solve. And let’s look at all the conflicts that do exist in TNA: Robert Roode and Tracy Brooks are in conflict, Kurt and Karen Angle are always in conflict, Leticia Cline and the new announce girl were in a conflict that one week, James Storm and Miss Tennessee were in conflict, Jim Cornette and Matt Morgan are in conflict, on the PPV Kevin Nash and Samoa Joe were in conflict.

Are any of these conflicts something we can get behind in hopes of seeing resolved? Of course not! None of the guy - girl conflicts can be resolved in TNA because guys can’t touch the girls so there will never be a match we can pay to see, to resolve these conflicts. Jim Cornette and Matt Morgan certainly aren’t going to work on PPV, and Samoa Joe and Kevin Nash were buddy buddy on Impact last week with no explanation of how their conflict was even resolved. All of this conflict is a waste of time and just a distraction from any conflict that could potentially draw money.

Even look at what has drawn money for TNA. Joe and Angle 1 was the biggest draw in the company's history, drawing nearly triple their usual buy rate. What did they do to draw that number? Kurt Angle showed up on Impact and head butted Joe right in the face and the two guys tried to beat the crap out of each other. It looked very serious; fans bought into it, and wanted to see the conflict resolved. End result: 60,000 buys.

Since then Kurt has sought psychiatric therapy from Kevin Nash in a sun bed, wandered around back stage in his underwear looking for his clothes, argued with his wife and convinced her to try to sleep with Kevin Nash, and held a Thanksgiving dinner in his house (which oddly enough is both in Pittsburgh and only a few short minute commute from the Impact Zone) where he dressed up in a pilgrim suit, and acted like Eric Young’s older brother. The end result of all this great booking: 20,000 PPV buys or less. 2 out of every 3 people who bought Angle – Joe 1, are no longer buying PPV, why do you think that is?

Now is not the time to celebrate killing ECW in the ratings, now is the time to change the creative direction of this show in an attempt to drive buy-rates, and try to make this company money, so it doesn’t become WCW 2. Those who defend this show are part of the problem not the solution. Blind Faith is never a good thing and people need to not only open their eyes but also try to open the eyes of those in charge of TNA. I get mad and rant about TNA because I care about TNA and everyone who works there. I want to see TNA become a viable company financially so it will be around for the long haul. I want TNA to succeed for the good of the fans that watch it, for the good of the boys who work there, and for the good of the industry as a whole. Maybe if we all just scream loud enough someone will eventually hear us. If they don’t, eventually I won’t have TNA to rant about because and the die-hard TNA fans won’t have a show to get behind.

Lance Storm

AMEN.

[jzbadblood]

I don't care what Lance Storm has to say. TNA has been getting better, and I actually look forward to watching the product now.

[Mozenrath]

jzbadblood said:

I don't care what Lance Storm has to say. TNA has been getting better, and I actually look forward to watching the product now.

He's just saying that if it doesn't lead to PPV buys, they're not going to turn things around. Believe it or not, ratings aren't really that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, wrestling wise.

[dpg]

To be honest, lance Storms opinion doesn't really mean much to me. He was a good wrestler, not great on the mic and the charisma of a ham sandwich, but great in the ring. His knowledge of the business is very good too, but he has never run a company or booked to any great capacity as far as I know. Therefore his knowledge of what does, and what does not, constitute correct direction for any company is deeply flawed. A great many people have been predicting TNA's death since before it started, and although Lance's article is well written and thought out, it does follow the same lines. Lance thinks he knows how TNA should be run, despite not knowing the variety of pressures and expectations placed upon them by the network etc. He makes the mistake of looking at TNA as if it's a computer game, unencumbered by the variety of problems placed on it by real life.

[hollywood]

dpg said:

To be honest, lance Storms opinion doesn't really mean much to me. He was a good wrestler, not great on the mic and the charisma of a ham sandwich, but great in the ring. His knowledge of the business is very good too, but he has never run a company or booked to any great capacity as far as I know. Therefore his knowledge of what does, and what does not, constitute correct direction for any company is deeply flawed. A great many people have been predicting TNA's death since before it started, and although Lance's article is well written and thought out, it does follow the same lines. Lance thinks he knows how TNA should be run, despite not knowing the variety of pressures and expectations placed upon them by the network etc. He makes the mistake of looking at TNA as if it's a computer game, unencumbered by the variety of problems placed on it by real life.

Lance was actually a booker in the original ECW while he was there, so he does have insight to booking a promotion and the pressures involved.

One again, Lance is right on the money. Blind faith won't save TNA. Higher PPV buys will.

[Brain Of F'n J]

kiddobradley said:

kickassforumguyme said:

I rarely watch WWE anymore just cause it sucks. I'm not brand loyal and if something cool happened I would tune in again =)

Umm, it kind of shows you haven't watched this year. It hasn't sucked.

To you. Others may disagree. How would you know if people who don't like it haven't watched? I've watched a few shows, and I find myself thinking "why am I watching this? It's so boring!". It no longer is a style of wrestling I'm interested in.

Brand loyalty is fine. You wanna be brand loyal? Good for you. Me, I'm a fan of wrestling. If the WWE puts on good WRESTLING shows again, I'll watch. If TNA puts on good WRESTLING shows, I'll watch. But they don't. They put on Sportz Entertainment crap, and that just doesn't interest me anymore.

Jed Shaffer
~Why should I just swallow what's fed? What's wrong with having discerning taste?

[thestinger]

I watched ECW and WCW in the 90s. These were two companies that HATED one another, but I enjoyed both shows.

Now I watch only TNA. If I thought WWE were entertaining in any way I would watch them, but I don't.

I'll also watch an ROH DVD if someone else puts it on.

[Godhand]

I have no brand loyalty. If a promotion puts on a show that doesnt entertain me I dont watch. I dont get the whole "It's wreslting I'll watch it". I'm not trying to diss anybody, If oyu watch then you must enjoy it. If I dont enjoy It I don't watch.

[The Lodger]

The only reason I'm "loyal" to the indys is because I only have time to watch wrestling on DVD, not on television.

What I have noticed that Indy fans have no problem watching and supporting another indy brand, or maybe I'm wrong, but generally, I've found that one can be an ROH and a Chikara fan.

[Godhand]

thelodger said:

The only reason I'm "loyal" to the indys is because I only have time to watch wrestling on DVD, not on television.

What I have noticed that Indy fans have no problem watching and supporting another indy brand, or maybe I'm wrong, but generally, I've found that one can be an ROH and a Chikara fan.

I agree. Except when it comes to promotions that feature more hardcore and deathmatches like czw and iwa-ms. But even then its just a matter of different tastes.