Hogan -= Gimmic thief?

[pathogen]

Just been watching the AWA dvd, snd noticed how similar Jesse Ventura was to the later Hogan run. Not far off Superstar Billy Graham either. Coincidence, or something more sinister?

[The Summer of Muskrat XVII]

No, Hogan's pretty open about the fact that he based his look off of Ventura and Graham. I've heard him mention it before

[Arthur Digby Stamp]

Ventura and Hogan have both come out and basically said that they tried to emulate Billy Graham. Graham was a huge inspiration in the careers of both guys.

[Hiroshi Hase]

Hogan has credited Graham as his inspiration for his gimmick for many years now.

[dannyrctv]

Hogan's famous "Hulking Up" come back was stolen from Jimmy Valiant".

[Hiroshi Hase]

dannyrctv said:

Hogan's famous "Hulking Up" come back was stolen from Jimmy Valiant".

I thought Lawler would do that, where he would stop selling the guys moves and start making the comeback. In any case, I'm sure he probably stole it from someone too.

[Joekishi]

pathogen said:

Just been watching the AWA dvd, snd noticed how similar Jesse Ventura was to the later Hogan run. Not far off Superstar Billy Graham either. Coincidence, or something more sinister?

Nope, Hogan pretty much fesses up to mimmicking superstar, he was a huge superstar mark.

It's Jesse Ventura that accuses Hogan of ripping him off. When Ventura was basically a Superstar Copy in look, gimmick, and promos.

[lildude8218]

yjc1019 said:

dannyrctv said:

Hogan's famous "Hulking Up" come back was stolen from Jimmy Valiant".

I thought Lawler would do that, where he would stop selling the guys moves and start making the comeback. In any case, I'm sure he probably stole it from someone too.

Jay Strongbow also did the exact same thing but they called it the Wardance. It's essentially Hulking Up though

[Nice Guy Cody]

lildude8218 said:

yjc1019 said:

I thought Lawler would do that, where he would stop selling the guys moves and start making the comeback. In any case, I'm sure he probably stole it from someone too.

Jay Strongbow also did the exact same thing but they called it the Wardance. It's essentially Hulking Up though

Dusty, Terry Funk and many others all had their versions too.

[pathogen]

So, Hogan is a thief who can't5 think for himself, and has made a career out of it? I think I dislike him even more!

[The Line]

pathogen said:

So, Hogan is a thief who can't5 think for himself, and has made a career out of it? I think I dislike him even more!

Eh, every wrestler is a thief in some way.

[pathogen]

I guess so, but most are less blatant. How the hell did he get over, when the people he stole from were still about?

[Doctorin' The Tardis]

pathogen said:

I guess so, but most are less blatant. How the hell did he get over, when the people he stole from were still about?

I assume that you are probably a newer fan and haven't seen a lot of the full careers of SSBG, Ventura, and Hogan.

While Hogan borrowed some theatrical elements from Graham in his early days, he evolved into his own character, a character that became the biggest star ever. Graham never had a big babyface run in his peak years so while a lot of Hogan's early heel stuff was derivation of SSBG, his babyface work was pretty much a different character.

The SSBG character was never a patriotic babyface, and Hogan's babyface promos didn't really resemble Graham's other than the use of the word "brother" IMO. They worked a similiar big man style in the ring, but so did lots of other big men of the era.

So yes, Hogan's original heel character of the 70s was a lot like Graham's and yes they were both tanned and roided up, but Hogan went on to develop one of the great unique characters in wrestling. I don't see that character as a rip-off.

As for Ventura, there's a better case there because Jesse dressed liked SSBG, but IMO he became a better talker than Billy and even Hogan were. He had one of the quickest wits in wrestling.

[The Line]

Yeah, Hogan differs from them because for the majority of his career, he was face(except for a very brief period at the beginning of his career, and then obviously in WCW).

[Doctorin' The Tardis]

codylockemitchell said:

lildude8218 said:

Jay Strongbow also did the exact same thing but they called it the Wardance. It's essentially Hulking Up though

Dusty, Terry Funk and many others all had their versions too.

And Lawler took it from Jackie Fargo and Dusty took it from Thunderbolt Patterson, who in turn took it from guys before them.

Much like Flair borrowed heavily from Buddy Rogers, who in turn borrowed heavily from Gorgeous George.

That's why I don't understand this view of Hogan being "sinister" and theories like it are always thrown around.

BTW, I'm not having a go at the author of this post. I just think this idea that Hogan is somehow held to a different standard than everyone else is ridiculous.

[The Line]

thecommish said:

codylockemitchell said:

Dusty, Terry Funk and many others all had their versions too.

And Lawler took it from Jackie Fargo and Dusty took it from Thunderbolt Patterson, who in turn took it from guys before them.

Much like Flair borrowed heavily from Buddy Rogers, who in turn borrowed heavily from Gorgeous George.

That's why I don't understand this view of Hogan being "sinister" and theories like it are always thrown around.

BTW, I'm not having a go at the author of this post. I just think this idea that Hogan is somehow held to a different standard than everyone else is ridiculous.

well, the Flair/Rogers one makes the most sense, as Flair took over the "Nature Boy" gimmick from him.

[Doctorin' The Tardis]

Even in that case, it's not as if Rogers helped train Flair or even guided him in any way. In fact, Flair had said then when he worked the feud with Rogers in Mid-Atlantic in the late 70s, the other wrestlers warned him not to put Buddy over because he'd never get Buddy to do the same for him. So again, the two weren't close.

Flair saw the "Nature Boy" gimmick and adopted it for himself- not saying there's anything wrong with it, but it's no different than what Hogan did early in his career as a heel.

[Joe Neglia]

Many people lifted the Superstar gimmick. Hogan, Ventura, Austin Idol, Precious Paul Ellering, and later Scott Steiner.

As far as the Hulking Up, while there were many variations of it, Hogan's seems to be almost directly taken from the way Blackjack Mulligan would do it.

[laotioncommotion]

pathogen said:

So, Hogan is a thief who can't5 think for himself, and has made a career out of it? I think I dislike him even more!

Then get ready to dislike most of wrestling, because that's generally how it works.

[skillz]

pathogen said:

So, Hogan is a thief who can't5 think for himself, and has made a career out of it? I think I dislike him even more!

Then you'll probably dislike a good majority of wrestlers.

A lot of wrestling is "stolen" from different eras. That's just how it works. Hogan was not a direct knock of Graham, he just took elements of that character and combined it with elements he already had. Many wrestlers do that. That's not being a "thief". If that's your rationale, then I shudder to think what you consider Ric Flair (who took another guy's NAME).

In the end, who cares? I saw elements of Jake Roberts in Stone Cold's character, but are we going to nitpick every similarity? That's just how wrestling works.