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Post by Nick Loves Dr. Pepper on Jan 5, 2008 19:35:49 GMT -5
What if someone IS making you though? Like kids with parents? What if the parents don't care, but the kids hate it (and shouldn't be exposed to it), and the parents make the kids go to a resturant? What if it's a place you LOVE the food, but it's the only place you can get that food (like say Greek or something) in town? This is also part of the quote:As far as the kid thing goes if the parent smokes at home then bringing the kid to the restaurants isn't going to increase their second hand smoke intake. They are already breathing it in at home. Toxic air waves
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Post by Hassan bin Sober on Jan 5, 2008 19:36:05 GMT -5
You guys are missing the point with the lava things as I knew you would. The point is that if we are to apply the logic people are using in their anti-smoking arguments the lava filled room should be banned because YOU want to be able to walk into that room. NO! You don't get to go into that room. It's the lava room and it only exists for those that want to be burned to a crisp like Gollum. If you don't want to burn alive then that is your right. But please leave the lava room alone for those who do. Now if you are now going to alter your argument to one in which people should not be able to smoke at all then your rejection of my lava analogy would be justified.
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Jan 5, 2008 19:39:51 GMT -5
What if someone IS making you though? Like kids with parents? What if the parents don't care, but the kids hate it (and shouldn't be exposed to it), and the parents make the kids go to a resturant? What if it's a place you LOVE the food, but it's the only place you can get that food (like say Greek or something) in town? This is also part of the quote:As far as the kid thing goes if the parent smokes at home then bringing the kid to the restaurants isn't going to increase their second hand smoke intake. They are already breathing it in at home. Toxic air waves What if the parents don't smoke at home though? You guys are missing the point with the lava things as I knew you would. The point is that if we are to apply the logic people are using in their anti-smoking arguments the lava filled room should be banned because YOU want to be able to walk into that room. NO! You don't get to go into that room. It's the lava room and it only exists for those that want to be burned to a crisp like Gollum. If you don't want to burn alive then that is your right. But please leave the lava room alone for those who do. Now if you are now going to alter your argument to one in which people should not be able to smoke at all then your rejection of my lava analogy would be justified. Use better anologies that have some kind of basis in fact, and make a good comparison and maybe then I will understand. You analogy still makes no sense even with your "explanation". You're basicaly saying people should be able to kill themselves if they want to... which... last I checked, is actually illegal.
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Post by Nick Loves Dr. Pepper on Jan 5, 2008 19:40:11 GMT -5
Yes, government should protect its people
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Post by Nick Loves Dr. Pepper on Jan 5, 2008 19:41:16 GMT -5
This is also part of the quote:As far as the kid thing goes if the parent smokes at home then bringing the kid to the restaurants isn't going to increase their second hand smoke intake. They are already breathing it in at home. Toxic air waves What if the parents don't smoke at home though? Better if they don't do it at home
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Johnny
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Post by Johnny on Jan 5, 2008 19:41:55 GMT -5
Does affect me. I don't live in France. USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jan 5, 2008 19:42:15 GMT -5
Because country music can lead to shortening the lives of the people around you just because you want to blare it. Yeah. Same thing! The shortening of lives? I find that to be the funniest thing about all this. If I had a room full of lava would you ban me from having a room of lava because you want to go into the room without dying? Just don't go into the room! It's about personal freedom. What about my personnal freedom not to breath smokers' smoke ? Beside, in your example, the room is in your house and hell, you can do whatever you want in your house, I don' t give a crap as long as you keep it to this location. If you go in a public place and put lava all over the place no matter what the people around think though, it' s a different story. You talk about personnal freedom but smokers completely ignore non-smokers' personnal freedom by making them breath their smoke. If you don't like breathing smoke then don't breath smoke. No one is holding a gun up to your head and forcing you to enter an establishment in which smoking is allowed. This is a total buzz kill attitude. "I don't like it so no one can do it!" I have no idea how it works in the U.S. but in France, there was no bar/restaurant where smoking was NOT allowed, so we had to stand other people' s smoke no matter what we wanted. And there were no separate rooms or anthing either. Just areas as if the smoke was going to stop moving by itself, not to mention that like I already said, there was often a surprising aount of ashtrays in NON-smoking areas. And that' s the main reason why this ban was made and HAD to be made. People smoked in non-smoking areas. They didn' t respect the rules, they got punished. They should have thought about it before doing crap like that. Also, I don' t see how it is more of a buzz kill attitude than "I like it so everyone should face the consequences of MY PERSONNAL choice." Dude, if you feel like jumping off a cliff, it' s your choice, but don' t tie people who don' t want to jump to you. People are doing things that are harmful to their health in bars and restaurants. Rather than go into a bar or restaurant in which people are not doing these things some people insists in going in anyway and then complain about it. I think this says something about people's personality. Again, in France, that was either going in a place where it' s allowed or stay at home, there were no 100% non-smoking places. Also, I love how some people say "man, if they can' t stand the smoke, they should just go outdoor" while complaining about having to go outdoor themselves because non-smokers don' t want cigarettes while they eat or drink. So, it would be perfectly normal to make other people go out of the bar but as soon as the same is asked to you, it' s a complete injustice ? Well sorry, a choice had to be made. The smokers are the minority and in a democracy, the majority wins, so the smokers go outdoor to smoke. Beside, YOU chose to smoke, nobody forced you to do so and you got warned that it is dangerous for health. It was your decision to live as an addict, now face the consequences and don' t blame other people for not wanting to breath poisonous smoke just because it makes YOU feel good.
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Post by kitsunestar on Jan 5, 2008 19:42:28 GMT -5
This is a total buzz kill attitude. "I don't like it so no one can do it!" But...but... If I can just save everybody from themselves, it'll be a happy world full of sunshine, rainbows, and Communism!!! Everyone'll love it!!!! Who cares about Freedom as long as the Government insulates me from everyone and everything! </sarcasm>
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Post by Nick Loves Dr. Pepper on Jan 5, 2008 19:42:43 GMT -5
Johnny, you're so rad
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Jan 5, 2008 19:43:24 GMT -5
What if the parents don't smoke at home though? Better if they don't do it at home Yeah, well, my point was that there ARE situations where people can be FORCED into places with smoke.
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Post by MiLo Duck on Jan 5, 2008 19:44:06 GMT -5
Do it! And I'll be in charge! Also, I hate the whole "bad foods" arguement. Big Mac's, while not good for you, do actually provide a service. They keep your body going. Rather it's good or bad, it is food, and your body NEEDS food. Also, Big Mac's are not literally poison like cigarettes are. Also, when YOU eat a Big Mac, it's not making people around you eat second hand Big Macs. Exactly. Even if the statistics are inflated, you're still putting a toxin into the air via smoking. Corporations aren't allowed to have smokestacks belching smoke over residential areas, or be pouring toxic waste into rivers (at least not according to the law). How is this any different? Personally I don't have a problem with a designated smoking area per-se, but at the same time it seems really silly that smokers complain that we should accommodate them for the choices they made. It's called living with consequences. I don't know, I can definately put some toxins in the air after eating a Big Mac
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Johnny
King Koopa
Now with 100% more custom title.
Vern enjoys Johnny's 3 Humanoid Awards.
Posts: 11,662
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Post by Johnny on Jan 5, 2008 19:44:24 GMT -5
NO YOUR RAD! I'm just stealing your thunder.
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Jan 5, 2008 19:45:22 GMT -5
What if someone IS making you though? Like kids with parents? What if the parents don't care, but the kids hate it (and shouldn't be exposed to it), and the parents make the kids go to a resturant? What if it's a place you LOVE the food, but it's the only place you can get that food (like say Greek or something) in town? As far as the kid thing goes if the parent smokes at home then bringing the kid to the restaurants isn't going to increase their second hand smoke intake. They are already breathing it in at home. As for you liking the food. Too bad. Restaurants are not necessarily just a place to eat. Some also exists as a place to smoke while eating. If that is what the owner as designated his place of business to be then those people who just want the food and refuse to breath in the smoke are SOL. See, you literally say "Too bad for you" then expect me to not be like "No, too bad for you"? You're using the exact same logic that you are trying to force me to reconize as flawed.
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Post by Nick Loves Dr. Pepper on Jan 5, 2008 19:45:32 GMT -5
I hope government discourages smokers who force it on others in public or private, cigarette bans can be key to that
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Post by Hassan bin Sober on Jan 5, 2008 19:49:00 GMT -5
What if the parents don't smoke at home though? You guys are missing the point with the lava things as I knew you would. The point is that if we are to apply the logic people are using in their anti-smoking arguments the lava filled room should be banned because YOU want to be able to walk into that room. NO! You don't get to go into that room. It's the lava room and it only exists for those that want to be burned to a crisp like Gollum. If you don't want to burn alive then that is your right. But please leave the lava room alone for those who do. Now if you are now going to alter your argument to one in which people should not be able to smoke at all then your rejection of my lava analogy would be justified. Use better anologies that have some kind of basis in fact, and make a good comparison and maybe then I will understand. You analogy still makes no sense even with your "explanation". You're basicaly saying people should be able to kill themselves if they want to... which... last I checked, is actually illegal. If the parents don't smoke at home then why are they forcing kids into a place with no non-smoking section? The parents make the choice to go in. That's their own stupidity. You can make a child abuse argument but there are millions of smokers with kids so it comes down to you having to make an argument for a national ban on smoking all together. And yes I was essentially saying people should be able to kill themselves. What do you think smoking is doing? Hence my point. We all know it is dangerous but it is indeed legal so smurf off.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Jan 5, 2008 19:49:56 GMT -5
Wait a second how does a smoking ban work in France? All the cafes have tables outside?!
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Jan 5, 2008 19:50:40 GMT -5
What if the parents don't smoke at home though? Use better anologies that have some kind of basis in fact, and make a good comparison and maybe then I will understand. You analogy still makes no sense even with your "explanation". You're basicaly saying people should be able to kill themselves if they want to... which... last I checked, is actually illegal. If the parents don't smoke at home then why are they forcing kids into a place with no non-smoking section? The parents make the choice to go in. That's their own stupidity. You can make a child abuse argument but there are millions of smokers with kids so it comes down to you having to make an argument for a national ban on smoking all together. And yes I was essentially saying people should be able to kill themselves. What do you think smoking is doing? Hence my point. We all know it is dangerous but it is indeed legal so smurf off. Your point is you claim there are NO situations where people are FORCED into going into a place where they can breathe in smoke. My point is that you are wrong about that. I don't know if you know this, but a whole lot of non-smoking sections... don't stop anything. My favorite Greek place has non and smoking sections. However, when even one person lights up... you can smell it and breathe it in all over the smoking section.
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Post by Hassan bin Sober on Jan 5, 2008 19:53:19 GMT -5
As far as the kid thing goes if the parent smokes at home then bringing the kid to the restaurants isn't going to increase their second hand smoke intake. They are already breathing it in at home. As for you liking the food. Too bad. Restaurants are not necessarily just a place to eat. Some also exists as a place to smoke while eating. If that is what the owner as designated his place of business to be then those people who just want the food and refuse to breath in the smoke are SOL. See, you literally say "Too bad for you" then expect me to not be like "No, too bad for you"? You're using the exact same logic that you are trying to force me to reconize as flawed. No it's not the same logic. I'm coming from a point of view where a restaurant and/or a bar is established with the intent that smoking is allowed. How can you walk into such an establishment and say "Too bad you have to stop smoking because I don't like it"? There is a major difference between telling a person who wants a place to conform to their wants "too bad" and the person walking demanding the conformity telling the establishment "too bad".
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Jan 5, 2008 19:53:41 GMT -5
What if the parents don't smoke at home though? Well then who is forcing that family to go to said establishment ? Is there some mob boss that said if you do not go there and eat you are going to end up floating in a river?
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Post by Hassan bin Sober on Jan 5, 2008 19:55:06 GMT -5
I hope government discourages smokers who force it on others in public or private, cigarette bans can be key to that Again no one is forcing it on you in public. You're talking as if you are attached to strings and some cosmic smoking puppet master is making you walk into smoking establishments.
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