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Post by mysterydriver on Jan 29, 2008 21:09:56 GMT -5
What don't I get? Your entire argument. What do you want them to do? Have ECW as a brand but act like it has nothing to do with the rest of the company? How can they NOT present it as a 3rd WWE brand? No matter how "unique" the product is, it's STILL a WWE product and thus would not be "unique" at all. And it's the "Originals" fault that they don't have jobs right now. Sandman asked for his release, RVD didn't want to stay, Sabu was a major screwup on MULTIPLE occassions. And people act like there are no "Originals" left. Let's see.....there's Tommy Dreamer who still has a job and just worked the Rumble. Balls isn't being used at the moment. That probably has something to do with him recently becoming a father. Stevie is injured. And Nunzio is still employed. I agree. Another Original who cost himself a job: Justin Credible. He was "impressing" Vince and apparently told people he was getting a push. Three jobs and release came right after that. there are two main problems with ECW: a lack of faces and overall a lack of talent Lack of talent? Are you meaning WRESTLING talent? Or "known" talent? |
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jan 29, 2008 22:05:09 GMT -5
What don't I get? Your entire argument. What do you want them to do? Have ECW as a brand but act like it has nothing to do with the rest of the company? How can they NOT present it as a 3rd WWE brand? No matter how "unique" the product is, it's STILL a WWE product and thus would not be "unique" at all. And it's the "Originals" fault that they don't have jobs right now. Sandman asked for his release, RVD didn't want to stay, Sabu was a major screwup on MULTIPLE occassions. And people act like there are no "Originals" left. Let's see.....there's Tommy Dreamer who still has a job and just worked the Rumble. Balls isn't being used at the moment. That probably has something to do with him recently becoming a father. Stevie is injured. And Nunzio is still employed. I agree. Another Original who cost himself a job: Justin Credible. He was "impressing" Vince and apparently told people he was getting a push. Three jobs and release came right after that. there are two main problems with ECW: a lack of faces and overall a lack of talent Lack of talent? Are you meaning WRESTLING talent? Or "known" talent? I thought Credible no-showed and that's what led to his release? Or maybe I'm thinking of Axl Rotten, not sure or maybe it was both. |
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Post by mysterydriver on Jan 29, 2008 22:08:21 GMT -5
I agree. Another Original who cost himself a job: Justin Credible. He was "impressing" Vince and apparently told people he was getting a push. Three jobs and release came right after that. Lack of talent? Are you meaning WRESTLING talent? Or "known" talent? I thought Credible no-showed and that's what led to his release? Or maybe I'm thinking of Axl Rotten, not sure or maybe it was both. I'm pretty sure that Axl no-showed the "ECW vs. WWE" Special. |
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Post by laotioncommotion on Jan 29, 2008 22:18:09 GMT -5
I still hold the belief that it's more incompetence rather than pettiness that's the key to Vince's failures with foreign talent and ideas. Seriously why would anyone bother to sign someone with the intent of smurfing up? Hey let me throw a bunch of money at you while we make you not as cool as you used to be, but not as horrible as everyone makes you out to be, and occasionally not use you. You're absolutely right. People seem to think that Vince is such an evil genius that he does all this stuff to purposely harm people. When, really, Vince just sometimes sucks monumental ass at what he does. He sucks particularly at figuring out what made something good in the first place. And on the subject of Paul E.'s "genius", didn't he book ECW up until December 2 Dismember? Which was f***ing terrible. And don't give me that stuff about him being stifled. It sucked. |
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jan 29, 2008 22:25:57 GMT -5
You're absolutely right. People seem to think that Vince is such an evil genius that he does all this stuff to purposely harm people. When, really, Vince just sometimes sucks monumental ass at what he does. He sucks particularly at figuring out what made something good in the first place. Agreed. It's because he wants wrestlers in the WWE, even if they were stars elsewhere, to have a character or character trait that he helped create. He tries to make a change to a star coming in, be it slight or massive, and alot of times it fails. He's not trying to smurf things up, it just happens some times. Except for Dusty Rhodes. That one I honestly believe he was trying to make the Dream look like a total ass clown |
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on Jan 29, 2008 23:39:41 GMT -5
What don't I get? Your entire argument. What do you want them to do? Have ECW as a brand but act like it has nothing to do with the rest of the company? How can they NOT present it as a 3rd WWE brand? No matter how "unique" the product is, it's STILL a WWE product and thus would not be "unique" at all. And it's the "Originals" fault that they don't have jobs right now. Sandman asked for his release, RVD didn't want to stay, Sabu was a major screwup on MULTIPLE occassions. And people act like there are no "Originals" left. Let's see.....there's Tommy Dreamer who still has a job and just worked the Rumble. Balls isn't being used at the moment. That probably has something to do with him recently becoming a father. Stevie is injured. And Nunzio is still employed. I still don't buy it, and I've been thinking this line of logic for a while. About 4 million people dropped out of wrestling after WCW/ECW were bought out. Why hasn't Vince tried to pursue them? He's tried to take a bite out of football, a bite out of bodybuilding and a bite out of the movie industries, so why is it so unbelievable to think that he should have tried ECW as a platform to draw in new fans? It would have benefitted his main programs as well, as the fans drawn in by ECW's uniqueness might enjoy a nice contrast after their show. I think all the brands should be different, but Vince really f***ed up with ECW. People watch TNA because it's (supposedly) the alternative to WWE. But I'm sure many still watch WWE anyway. It's like liking a certain genre. I love comedy, but sometimes I'm in the mood for a good drama. I think WWE should try to take a broader approach and try to reach different audiences with it's brands, instead of making many with the same influence, because it hinders growth. Although it does encourage normalcy within his established fanbase. |
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Jan 29, 2008 23:45:39 GMT -5
However one feels about the new ECW, it's hard to call it a success. Ratings have consistently dropped and the "brand" is mostly used to get over talent on the other brands.
In truth, it wasn't really the Originals or hardcore matches (those are important, but not essential) that ECW needed most: It needed the ECW attitude.
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Post by Da (No Sold) 7-1-3 Itch on Jan 29, 2008 23:53:49 GMT -5
It's not an argument of Vince wants to bury ECW, if he really wanted to do that then he would've treated it like WCW's memory and just barely mention it at all.
I mean Vince has brought back almost anything that made him money(D-X, Austin, ECW) everything except the big promotion that killed them for almost two years straight.
If anything I think WWE and Vince still are oblivious and in denial to how big ECW was (as is evidenced by the ONS 2005 which HAD to have RAW and SD there just so the PPV would get "more" buys)
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Post by gertner on Jan 30, 2008 0:00:37 GMT -5
ecw is probably my fav brand right now
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