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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on Feb 28, 2008 17:07:16 GMT -5
What I dispise about the WWE Brand Extension is that it bumps guys up WAYYYY too early. Sure, a lot of people think that without the brand extension we'd have no Kennedy, or no Orton, etc.
But I don't think that's a bad thing. If you look at the roster now, WWE has too many people that are built up to the top of the card. By hot shotting these new guys into the main event (like Kennedy) it kills him when he's back in the midcard, where he probably should be. And by no means is that an insult, but it feels like it in today's WWE, when you are either a MEer or a curtain jerker. The midcard today is non-existant.
I saw a post today wishing to release, among others "Cena, Orton, Batista", and the next post saying "Although I'm ready for the next generation, they aren't going anywhere" or something to that effect. And I'm thinking....these guys are the next generation. Is a wrestler only good in the ME for 2-3 years? Cena only just took off, as with Batista, and Orton is FINALLY an established heel...and he still has a ways to go.
Now you have people like Hardy, Kennedy, Carlito...all good guys who were in the ME spot one time or another ready to claim the throne. But I think they were hotshotted way too fast because of the way the brand extension works.
I think Kennedy should JUST be starting off now, and Carlito should have JUST got the IC strap. These guys are now staples in the roster, but can't ever get back to where they once were because there is too much talent.
And then JR says "OH BOY I DONT WANT A DRAFT I WANT SOME NEW GUYS DEVELOPED" STOP!!!!! These guys will only get hotshotted then lost in the shuffle as well. Cena, Orton, Batista, Edge, etc are the new generation. So what does it make people like Kennedy and Jeff Hardy?
Long story short...why do they keep bringing in new guys when they are just going to get lost in the shuffle?
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Post by MysteryPartner on Feb 28, 2008 17:15:12 GMT -5
I opened this thread wondering what it was about and then I saw it was way too long and didnt bother to read it so I don't know what to tell you man
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Post by Cypress on Feb 28, 2008 17:23:13 GMT -5
Hardy is a main eventer and its been years in the making, how is he getting hot shotted a spot?
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BHB
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,778
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Post by BHB on Feb 28, 2008 17:51:55 GMT -5
I really agree with you, it does seem that everyone is either main event or a loser. Pushing guys like Umaga and Kennedy into the ME and then dropping them again has made them look weak.
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Post by molson5 on Feb 28, 2008 18:06:33 GMT -5
Immediately before the emergence of all the new talent, the big WWE complaint was that they "weren't building new stars". (Some people STILL complain about that after a HHH win, etc.).
It depends on what's going on in your main event. The WWE lost a ton of main event talent in a short amount of time, and in most cases, they knew the talent was on the way out (Rock, Austin). It made sense around 2003-2005 to build up new stars, which they did, thanks to the brand split. Who the hell would be main eventing now if not guys like Cena, Batista and Orton?
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Post by BD Punk AKA SUSPENDED! on Feb 28, 2008 19:26:28 GMT -5
The reason why so many new guys are lost in the shuffle is because they are pushed too hard too fast. Guys like Carlito, Kennedy, and even Deuce/Domino were pushed and given titles waayyyy to early in their WWE career. Once they lose the title it seems WWE doesn't know where to go with them and they end up jobbing or not getting a good consistant push.
If you want to see how to build up a new wrestler, look at the way CM Punk was handled in his first year and a half. Had several vignettes to introduce who he was and his character. Defeated jobbers/lower card guys for 5-6 months while establishing his "signature" moves. Then had him slowly increase his level of competition until now where he's an upper-mid card guy. The next step would have him take on main event guys on a regular basis to become an established main eventer.
That is the blue print for building a guy up to be a main event player in just a few years. If the WWE did this for 1-2 guys on each show at a time in a few years you'd have 3-6 "fresh" main event guys ready to take on the established guys like HHH, HBK, Cena, Botchy, Edge.............etc
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Post by i.Sarita.com on Feb 28, 2008 19:34:34 GMT -5
I opened this thread wondering what it was about and then I saw it was way too long and didnt bother to read it so I don't know what to tell you man Wow, such insightful input... |
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Post by MysteryPartner on Feb 28, 2008 19:42:58 GMT -5
I opened this thread wondering what it was about and then I saw it was way too long and didnt bother to read it so I don't know what to tell you man Wow, such insightful input... I know many great things |
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Post by They Killed the Giggler on Feb 28, 2008 19:53:24 GMT -5
the fresh young talent was on display at No Way Out.
Ric Flair,Triple H,Chavo Guerrero,and the Undertaker all got big wins.
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Post by "Sweet & Sour" ImSoFudginGreat on Feb 28, 2008 19:59:07 GMT -5
The reason why so many new guys are lost in the shuffle is because they are pushed too hard too fast. Guys like Carlito, Kennedy, and even Deuce/Domino were pushed and given titles waayyyy to early in their WWE career. Once they lose the title it seems WWE doesn't know where to go with them and they end up jobbing or not getting a good consistant push. If you want to see how to build up a new wrestler, look at the way CM Punk was handled in his first year and a half. Had several vignettes to introduce who he was and his character. Defeated jobbers/lower card guys for 5-6 months while establishing his "signature" moves. Then had him slowly increase his level of competition until now where he's an upper-mid card guy. The next step would have him take on main event guys on a regular basis to become an established main eventer. That is the blue print for building a guy up to be a main event player in just a few years. If the WWE did this for 1-2 guys on each show at a time in a few years you'd have 3-6 "fresh" main event guys ready to take on the established guys like HHH, HBK, Cena, Botchy, Edge.............etc So does that mean Kofi Kingston is gonna be huge?? Sweet. |
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greeby
Hank Scorpio
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Post by greeby on Feb 28, 2008 20:05:35 GMT -5
It doesn't help that Raw is top-loaded where the majority of singles men are either in the WWE title race proper or trying to be no.1 contender. What midcard and up-and-comers there are are in makeshift tag teams or relegated to Heat.
Smackdown is just coasting along on a select few established names. And ECW? If I had to be really cruel about it. I'd say the only reason that show is still on the air is to showcase Punk, and to train Kelly. Once they've moved up, you may as well go back to having Velocity on the internet
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Post by MysteryPartner on Feb 28, 2008 20:11:19 GMT -5
The reason why so many new guys are lost in the shuffle is because they are pushed too hard too fast. Guys like Carlito, Kennedy, and even Deuce/Domino were pushed and given titles waayyyy to early in their WWE career. Once they lose the title it seems WWE doesn't know where to go with them and they end up jobbing or not getting a good consistant push. If you want to see how to build up a new wrestler, look at the way CM Punk was handled in his first year and a half. Had several vignettes to introduce who he was and his character. Defeated jobbers/lower card guys for 5-6 months while establishing his "signature" moves. Then had him slowly increase his level of competition until now where he's an upper-mid card guy. The next step would have him take on main event guys on a regular basis to become an established main eventer. That is the blue print for building a guy up to be a main event player in just a few years. If the WWE did this for 1-2 guys on each show at a time in a few years you'd have 3-6 "fresh" main event guys ready to take on the established guys like HHH, HBK, Cena, Botchy, Edge.............etc So does that mean Kofi Kingston is gonna be huge?? Sweet. no it means that kofi kingston will soon be carrying a bucket of puke around with him like old school tommy dreamer |
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Post by BD Punk AKA SUSPENDED! on Feb 28, 2008 20:21:58 GMT -5
The reason why so many new guys are lost in the shuffle is because they are pushed too hard too fast. Guys like Carlito, Kennedy, and even Deuce/Domino were pushed and given titles waayyyy to early in their WWE career. Once they lose the title it seems WWE doesn't know where to go with them and they end up jobbing or not getting a good consistant push. If you want to see how to build up a new wrestler, look at the way CM Punk was handled in his first year and a half. Had several vignettes to introduce who he was and his character. Defeated jobbers/lower card guys for 5-6 months while establishing his "signature" moves. Then had him slowly increase his level of competition until now where he's an upper-mid card guy. The next step would have him take on main event guys on a regular basis to become an established main eventer. That is the blue print for building a guy up to be a main event player in just a few years. If the WWE did this for 1-2 guys on each show at a time in a few years you'd have 3-6 "fresh" main event guys ready to take on the established guys like HHH, HBK, Cena, Botchy, Edge.............etc So does that mean Kofi Kingston is gonna be huge?? Sweet. He's on that track, but he's got a long way to go on Punk's path. I do hope he becomes huge though. BOO BOO BOO!!! |
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,304 
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Post by The Ichi on Feb 29, 2008 7:05:37 GMT -5
This is why I'm glad MVP didn't get drafted to Raw. He's had a lot more room to develop himself on the blue show.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Feb 29, 2008 7:16:13 GMT -5
Raw is the roster of maineventers, unless you are already established or looked very highly upon you will not be protected. Umaga was built it to lose to Cena, he was never built to be a long term maineventer. That's why he is no longer protected.
The other shows I think try to do a better job with some of the talent but the truth is some of those guys were never meant to be more than comedy act fodder. Duece and Domino that's all they are. Not everyone is going to be a star or have an awesome role in the company. Sometimes you sit in the 5th tag team and your job is to lose to the tag teams being pushed.
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Post by cactusrob on Feb 29, 2008 7:23:14 GMT -5
WWE were in a position they had to hot shot people to the top, as talent was getting pretty thin up the top tiers as the established stars were leaving. And they did it well enough, as Orton, Batista and Cena are huge right now. They also pushed long term risers like Edge and Jeff Hardy, and now that the main event scene is more comfortable they can legitimately build guys like they have with Punk and MVP.
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Jack
Team Rocket
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Post by Jack on Feb 29, 2008 7:30:04 GMT -5
The problem here is two-fold.
Firstly this 'production line' of talent WWE have now through their various territories are frankly on the whole unappealing, uncharismatic and dull. They've ONLY been taught the WWE way so they turn up on day one with a nice hair cut, not much personality and WWE spend the next four years trying to force a persona upon them and eventually realise it doesn't work, relegate them to International Heat and shunt them off when the annual 'roster-cut' comes in April after Wrestlemania.
Guys these days I don't think understand the performance side of the industry as they've mainly never had to make it on their own. If they're down at OVW or whether else it is sure they get TV time but they're groomed, they're in a system a factory line. They don't have to go out there touring the country making a name for themselves every week to try and get themselves noticed, they can phone it in most weeks, afterall who cares they're on TV and one day they'll get a shot at the big time.
Secondly, for some reason over the last few years we (both fans and WWE) have lost the understanding that a company needs a strong mid-card. It winds me up it really does when as soon as someone gets a half-arsed pop from one crowd everyone is on their feet screaming "PUSH THEM!!!" as if we need 40 different main eventers every week.
Mr Perfect for me is a PERECT (with pun very much intended) an example of a guy who was a world class mid-carder but would have been no way nearly as effective in the main event. There's to much emphasis these days of getting people to the top too quickly, some people won't ever get to the very top because they're not destined to be there. If you drive a manual car you don't go from 1st to 5th gear, sometimes depending on the circumstances you rarely go above 3rd. You do what suits the car and the road and in wrestling promoters should do what suits the wrestler and the company. It's often the death of a superstar if they're pushed beyond their talent, capabilities or where the fans want them to be. I'm as big a Mr Perfect mark as there is but the guy's strength was being on the top of the undercard and like many others that's where he stayed and that's why he is remember so fondly.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,101
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Post by Mecca on Feb 29, 2008 7:33:37 GMT -5
Say what you will but the "repressive" WWE style is really good at hiding guys flaws, it's why they are taught to work that way.
The WWE is never going to be a company that employs enough great workers to get away with going "just do your thing out there".
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