randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Mar 2, 2008 15:11:21 GMT -5
People have to keep one thing in mind.
Moves like the powerbomb have numerous variations (Jackknife, sit-out, etc.), and have been used by numerous wrestlers over the years (Sid, Nash, Batista, etc.)
The Crossface had no real variations, and was used by exactly one person.
People will always associate the Crossface with Benoit. That's probably why you don't see it a whole hell of a lot. I'm honestly surprised to have seen HBK use it a couple of times. I figured the move was probably banned across the board.
If the crossface were a more generic move with multiple variations and/or used by multiple people, then we'd probably have already seen other wrestlers incorporate it as a finisher. But the Crossface probably a little too closely tied to Benoit for vince's liking, which is probably why nobody uses or acknowledges it.
Can't say I blame vince, either.
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Post by derrtaysouth95 on Mar 2, 2008 15:34:31 GMT -5
it's just a move. I firmly believe that is not how poor Daniel (RIP) was taken too soon.
The crossface is to rip your shoulder out....not smother you.
*side note: I was looking at my Benoit figure today.....I used to not be able to but today it didn't bother me. I think I've officially moved past it.
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Post by Bobby Womack on Mar 2, 2008 16:00:40 GMT -5
It's interesting about the crossface because, Cena uses a crossface as his finisher, bu its different enough that it hasn't been called out as disrespectful (and I'm not saying it should, but he is indeed using a crossface as part of the move, different arm placement or not). perhaps nobody has called it out as disrespectful because the STF/STS was invented long before the crossface and has been used by hundreds of wrestlers before and after it, calling it a variation of the crossface couldnt be more wrong
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 2, 2008 17:19:01 GMT -5
People have to keep one thing in mind. Moves like the powerbomb have numerous variations (Jackknife, sit-out, etc.), and have been used by numerous wrestlers over the years (Sid, Nash, Batista, etc.) The Crossface had no real variations, and was used by exactly one person. People will always associate the Crossface with Benoit. That's probably why you don't see it a whole hell of a lot. I'm honestly surprised to have seen HBK use it a couple of times. I figured the move was probably banned across the board. If the crossface were a more generic move with multiple variations and/or used by multiple people, then we'd probably have already seen other wrestlers incorporate it as a finisher. But the Crossface probably a little too closely tied to Benoit for vince's liking, which is probably why nobody uses or acknowledges it. Can't say I blame vince, either. See I might go the opposite way if I was him, and perhaps not use it as a finisher, but a mid match move along the lines of an abdominal stretch or some such.. you might erase associations quicker that way. Think there's no way the crossface couldn't be a match ender? There was a time the DDT meant instant pin.. hell go back far enough and the suplex or atomic drop were match enders.
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Boku AKA Da Green Guy
El Dandy
WC's Resident Pirate Otaku and Official Scapegoat
Always and Forever, Hurricane.
Posts: 8,371
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Mar 2, 2008 17:20:38 GMT -5
It's too bad that MVP didn't start using it after his feud with Benoit.
Then we wouldn't have him doing his horrible finisher and the move wouldn't be so taboo.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 2, 2008 17:23:46 GMT -5
It's too bad that MVP didn't start using it after his feud with Benoit. Then we wouldn't have him doing his horrible finisher and the move wouldn't be so taboo. Interesting scenario. Anything that stops him from using the overdrive. That move is W-O-R-M levels of silly.
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Post by Robbymac on Mar 2, 2008 18:13:53 GMT -5
People have to keep one thing in mind. Moves like the powerbomb have numerous variations (Jackknife, sit-out, etc.), and have been used by numerous wrestlers over the years (Sid, Nash, Batista, etc.) The Crossface had no real variations, and was used by exactly one person. People will always associate the Crossface with Benoit. That's probably why you don't see it a whole hell of a lot. I'm honestly surprised to have seen HBK use it a couple of times. I figured the move was probably banned across the board. If the crossface were a more generic move with multiple variations and/or used by multiple people, then we'd probably have already seen other wrestlers incorporate it as a finisher. But the Crossface probably a little too closely tied to Benoit for vince's liking, which is probably why nobody uses or acknowledges it. Can't say I blame vince, either. I wouldn't be shocked if Vince did ban it and HBK did it anyway. There are a few guys on the roster who can get away with stuff like that and he's one of them. The other 3 are challenging for world titles at Wrestlemania.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Mar 3, 2008 10:57:34 GMT -5
People have to keep one thing in mind. Moves like the powerbomb have numerous variations (Jackknife, sit-out, etc.), and have been used by numerous wrestlers over the years (Sid, Nash, Batista, etc.) The Crossface had no real variations, and was used by exactly one person. People will always associate the Crossface with Benoit. That's probably why you don't see it a whole hell of a lot. I'm honestly surprised to have seen HBK use it a couple of times. I figured the move was probably banned across the board. If the crossface were a more generic move with multiple variations and/or used by multiple people, then we'd probably have already seen other wrestlers incorporate it as a finisher. But the Crossface probably a little too closely tied to Benoit for vince's liking, which is probably why nobody uses or acknowledges it. Can't say I blame vince, either. See I might go the opposite way if I was him, and perhaps not use it as a finisher, but a mid match move along the lines of an abdominal stretch or some such.. you might erase associations quicker that way. Think there's no way the crossface couldn't be a match ender? There was a time the DDT meant instant pin.. hell go back far enough and the suplex or atomic drop were match enders. I remember those days quite well. The DDT was a protected move for Jake's entire tenure. And I'm old enough to remember the days when what would be basic moves today were showstoppers 30 years ago. Getting back on track...... The move itself is too closely tied to Benoit. Nobody else used it. At all. That's where the problem lies. Whether it's a finisher or just a mid-match move, the fact is that a lot of people will always consider it "Benoit's move". There's no real way to do the move in a way where fans won't instantly associate it with Benoit. Vince doesn't want that, and I can't blame him. If this were, for example, Jake Roberts who murdered his family, we wouldn't have this problem. The DDT has been downgraded to a mid-match move, for the most part, and has been used by a number of people as a finisher over the years under a variety of ways and nicknames -- Evenflow, Edgecution, Tornado DDT, etc. We may never have heard the move specifically called "DDT" again, but the move itself would probably go on without missing a beat. (Note that I still believe Edge should use it instead of the spear and go back to the short-lived nickname of "C.O.D -- Concussion On Delivery". Coolest name for a move, EVER. Too bad it didn't catch on. )
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Mr. Mediocre
Hank Scorpio
Bert Early?... sorry, that's a typo. Butt. Ugly.
Much better since I was last here.
Posts: 6,249
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Post by Mr. Mediocre on Mar 3, 2008 11:04:36 GMT -5
It's a wrestling move, and a legit looking submission hold, I don't see any trouble with it. And if say, Nash, went and did bad things, would everyone stop doing/mentioning the powerbomb? The difference is that the powerbomb isn't necessarily tied to Nash. If you ask ten people who they think of when you say power bomb, some will say Nash, some will say Vader, some will say Sid. Everyone will say Benoit when asked who they think of when "crossface" is said.
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