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Post by The Immoral One on Mar 6, 2008 22:42:53 GMT -5
When I think of the recognized best wrestlers ever, I think of Flair and HBK. Both are similiar in that they both have long storied careers. Both have also put on 5 star matches and can carry just about anyone to a great match. Both are also loved by both smarks and marks alike.
So who is the next wrestler in this mold? With Flair coming to a close, and HBK probly not too far to follow? Who will step us as the pound for pound best? I'm thinking Kurt Angle. He is loved by all and constantly has great matches. Plus I'm sure he will eventually return to WWE to further his legacy.
Does anyone agree?
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Post by tombstoned on Mar 6, 2008 23:07:52 GMT -5
He has no need to return to WWE. He can overtake Flair's record without having to worry about Triple H or Cena thinking they deserve the belt more than him.
But as for being the best wrestler...yeah, if he can stay healthy Angle should already be considered.
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wwerules60
El Dandy
"Bring what? a vomit bag? a fig newton?"
Posts: 8,999
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Post by wwerules60 on Mar 6, 2008 23:21:59 GMT -5
I wish Kurt would come back to the WWE. He was my favorite but I just can not stand TNA. Still just Kurt's WWE run could put him up there for the best ever.
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Mar 6, 2008 23:43:16 GMT -5
He's definitely a better technical wrestler than either of them.
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Post by The Immoral One on Mar 6, 2008 23:49:20 GMT -5
Hmmm...interesting point. i know the count Flair WCW titles runs in his 16 times, but if Kurt was to return, would they count his TNA title runs?
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Post by Dick Foley on Mar 7, 2008 0:19:09 GMT -5
First, it's obvious that Hunter is taking Flair's place.
Second, in order for Angle to be on the same level as HBK or Flair, Angle will have to return to the WWE.
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Post by jamin90 on Mar 7, 2008 0:23:11 GMT -5
I think Angle would retire before Michaels.
As for the person who fits the mould
I honestly see Shelton Benjamin as the next Flair or Michaels. He's just got to make the most out of his push, and I see him doing that this time.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Mar 7, 2008 0:27:29 GMT -5
He is loved by all and constantly has great matches. Plus I'm sure he will eventually return to WWE to further his legacy. Does anyone agree? Eh he's tainted his legacy with those crazy kurt interviews. Plus his match quality in TNA has been really lack luster, his matches in Japan this year with Nagata and Nakamura are his best work since his ECW match with RVD. I don't think Angle has that recognition of being the best, simply because well he isn't right now. I really can see Cena being in that role, since you know he's one of the most varied and capeable wrestlers out there. If anything would have me more interested in Kurt, is if he worked on perfecting that Extreme Style he did in ECW, he's done that style with Nagata and Nakamura, and well I think it's really awesome. Also there's better wrestlers in WWE that I'd like to see Kurt face. Without run-ins, "marriages", or shenanigans. WHy can't Kurt Angle matches, just be about him wanting to hurt people and to win? |
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comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by comahan on Mar 7, 2008 0:29:49 GMT -5
He is loved by all and constantly has great matches. Plus I'm sure he will eventually return to WWE to further his legacy. Does anyone agree? Eh he's tainted his legacy with those crazy kurt interviews. Plus his match quality in TNA has been really lack luster, his matches in Japan this year with Nagata and Nakamura are his best work since his ECW match with RVD. I don't think Angle has that recognition of being the best, simply because well he isn't right now. I really can see Cena being in that role, since you know he's one of the most varied and capeable wrestlers out there. Well I personally think youre crazy  His matches with Christian so far this year have been amazing. His match with Sting at BFG was great, and his matches with Joe were very very good as well. Plus the two matches in Japan you named. |
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Post by dh03grad on Mar 7, 2008 0:39:52 GMT -5
I just hope hes not the next Eddie Guerrero.
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Post by The Immoral One on Mar 7, 2008 1:04:38 GMT -5
you know it really sucks, cause I feel ECW Kurt was going to be the greatest thing ever.
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Post by alphaman on Mar 7, 2008 2:54:58 GMT -5
I find it surprisingly that Kurt Angle is wrestling at all at present. I think we all had a bad feeling about him during the end of his recent WWE run, but he has managed to turn it around in TNA.
Whilst his performances have been great, they have been a step below his WWE (prime) ones. I haven't seen his Japanese matches, but I'll take people's word on it that they are very good.
But I honestly think that the answer is no - Kurt Angle won't be remembered in the same vain as HBK and Flair (and Bret Hart as well).
These guys all started wrestling in their teens (with the exception of Flair, who I believe was in his mid 20s), and enjoyed an approx 25 year career. Angle only started in his late 20s and I would be very surprised if he is still around in 10 years.
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Post by Thank You Shawn on Mar 7, 2008 2:57:24 GMT -5
Angle, IMO, is in a class of his own.
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Post by Mister Yummy on Mar 7, 2008 3:33:30 GMT -5
I'm not sure where the WWE gets 16 reigns for Ric Flair. I count several more than that. Let's go through them.
His first reign was from 9-17-1981 to ?-?-1982
2nd from ?-?-1982 to 1-6-83
3rd from 1-10-83 to 6-10-83. The NWA doesn't recognise the first 2 losses, and consideres these all one reign.
4th from 11-24-83 to 3-21-84
5th from 3-23-84 to 5-6-84
6th from 5-24-84 to 7-26-86
7th from 8-9-86 to 9-25-87
8th from 11-26-87 to 2-20-89
9th from 5-7-89 to 7-7-90
10th from 1-11-91 to 3-21-91
11th from 5-19-91 to 9-8-91
Ric Flair also became the first WCW World Heavyweight Champion on 1-11-91, holding it until 7-1-91 for his 12th world title. He held this concurrently with 2 of his NWA title reigns, so some may consider them all 1 reign.
Ric Flair won the WWF World Heavyweight Championship on 1-19-92 andh eld it until 4-5-92 for his 13th world title.
14th 9-1-92 to 10-12-92(WWF)
15th 7-18-93 to 9-?-93(NWA)
Ric Flair became the first WCW International World Heavyweight Champion upon WCW's departure from the NWA in September 1993, holding it until 9-19-93, for his 16th world title.
17th 12-27-93 to 4-21-94(WCW)
18th 4-21-94 to 7-17-94
19th 12-27-95 to 1-22-96
20th 2-11-96 to 4-22-96
21st 3-14-99 to 4-11-99
22nd 5-15-2000 to 5-22-2000
23rd 5-29-2000
So, if you don't count the 2 NWA Disavowed reigns, you're down to 21. If you don't count the 2 WCW International reigns, you get 19. Discount the 2 NWA Reigns concurrent with the first WCW Reign, and you're down to 17. I have no idea which other reign they drop.
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Post by Loki on Mar 7, 2008 4:58:25 GMT -5
I don't think he can or will...
The jump to TNA, after having been given time off from WWE to heal up (physically and mentally), has killed whatever legendary status he'd have reached.
He can win the TNA Title 30 times and it wouldn't make a difference. Angle left WWE in a bad way and there's no recognition outside Vince's World.
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Mac on Mar 7, 2008 8:11:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure where the WWE gets 16 reigns for Ric Flair. I count several more than that. Let's go through them. His first reign was from 9-17-1981 to ?-?-1982 2nd from ?-?-1982 to 1-6-83 3rd from 1-10-83 to 6-10-83. The NWA doesn't recognise the first 2 losses, and consideres these all one reign. 4th from 11-24-83 to 3-21-84 5th from 3-23-84 to 5-6-84 6th from 5-24-84 to 7-26-86 7th from 8-9-86 to 9-25-87 8th from 11-26-87 to 2-20-89 9th from 5-7-89 to 7-7-90 10th from 1-11-91 to 3-21-91 11th from 5-19-91 to 9-8-91 Ric Flair also became the first WCW World Heavyweight Champion on 1-11-91, holding it until 7-1-91 for his 12th world title. He held this concurrently with 2 of his NWA title reigns, so some may consider them all 1 reign. Ric Flair won the WWF World Heavyweight Championship on 1-19-92 andh eld it until 4-5-92 for his 13th world title. 14th 9-1-92 to 10-12-92(WWF) 15th 7-18-93 to 9-?-93(NWA) Ric Flair became the first WCW International World Heavyweight Champion upon WCW's departure from the NWA in September 1993, holding it until 9-19-93, for his 16th world title. 17th 12-27-93 to 4-21-94(WCW) 18th 4-21-94 to 7-17-94 19th 12-27-95 to 1-22-96 20th 2-11-96 to 4-22-96 21st 3-14-99 to 4-11-99 22nd 5-15-2000 to 5-22-2000 23rd 5-29-2000 So, if you don't count the 2 NWA Disavowed reigns, you're down to 21. If you don't count the 2 WCW International reigns, you get 19. Discount the 2 NWA Reigns concurrent with the first WCW Reign, and you're down to 17. I have no idea which other reign they drop. Is it the Kollision in Korea one to Fujimani? |
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Post by Mister Yummy on Mar 7, 2008 16:07:53 GMT -5
Flair wrestled Inoki at Collision in Korea. I know that because I have a promo for the event on tape. Fujinami is the one Flair lost the NWA Title to when he remained WCW Champion in '91. I've already counted those 3 reigns as one, and still only got down to 17.
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Post by Bobby Womack on Mar 7, 2008 23:25:38 GMT -5
He has no need to return to WWE. He can overtake Flair's record without having to worry about Triple H or Cena thinking they deserve the belt more than him. we're talking about world titles, not bush league titles like tna and as for the original question, i do see kurt in the same mould as hbk and flair but i dont think his body is going to hold out on him long enough for his career to be looked at in the same vain as theirs, even as of late his match quality is not up to what it used to be, and as someone said earlier he'd also need to return to wwe for this to happen |
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Camp Yorick
AC Slater
reality repeats itself.
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Post by Camp Yorick on Mar 8, 2008 3:25:43 GMT -5
I'm not too sure, but he may have burned that WWE bridge. Definitely not forever, not in this day in age, but I don't see him coming back for a lonnnnnngggg time. He's gone on the record to say some insane, maniacal, and contradicting shit. Plus there's the whole "alcohol on his breath and pills in his mouth" incident.
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Post by Henry Mark on Mar 8, 2008 4:41:55 GMT -5
I don't think he can or will... The jump to TNA, after having been given time off from WWE to heal up (physically and mentally), has killed whatever legendary status he'd have reached. He can win the TNA Title 30 times and it wouldn't make a difference. Angle left WWE in a bad way and there's no recognition outside Vince's World. I see this as a big issue as well. Flair's title runs in WCW matter because at one point, WCW was bigger than the WWE. TNA never will be, and will always be a second rate show with a second rate championship. Angle is the champion of a company that employees guys who would be lower-mid-carders and a few actual mid-carders if they were in WWE. Oh, and Kevin Nash. I watch WWE sometimes and think "this is stupid" during some angles or segments, but they pass. Each and every time I watch TNA, during the entire show, I think to myself "Why am I watching this?" because the stupidity doesn't end. I honestly only watch to see how bad the show gets because it's fun to watch a train wreck. Kurt is the champion of this and it in no way compares to what HBK and Flair have been champions of. Kurt should have little pride in being the star/champion of TNA, as the saying goes, it's like being the smartest kid in the dumb class. |
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