General Thoughts on Kids' Entertainment/Nostalgia

[HMARK Center]

We've had quite a few "old school Nick/Cartoon Network/Disney" appreciation threads lately, and it made me think about children's entertainment on the whole.

I'm a teacher, and I teach kids ranging from around 6 to 11 years old. If there's something I've definitely noticed that's different about kids right now, its that their much more "aware" about certain things that they don't really need to be. They're much more sarcastic and snide, they dress much more fashionably, etc.

But where does that come from? Parents, for one, but don't discount the stuff they grow up watching.

A lot of children's entertainment these days isn't bad at all. There are solid shows to be found on many stations, despite the death of Saturday morning cartoons. But the stuff the kids do watch tends to follow the same formula; the characters tend to be very sarcastic/snide, the humor dry.

I think Shrek, among other franchises, made this humor very popular when making kids' movies. It isn't bad, per se; there's a reason Shreak/Toy Story/etc. are so popular in all age groups.

But it's something that's very different from the era a lot of us grew up in.

Make no mistake: not all the shows we look back on so fondly were all that good. People who try to say "all the old shows were great, anything new sucks" are living with rose-colored nostalgia glasses on.

However, think back to the 1980's and early 90's. Yes, many of our cartoons were based on toy lines, but let's look at the broad picture.

You had movies like The Brave Little Toaster. Like The Land Before Time. Or maybe An American Tale. Secret of NIHM. Watership Down. The Black Cauldron.

You had more "serious" adventure cartoons that, even if they were based on toy lines, were beginning to take on creative lives of their own. Anyone my age remembers entering their pre-teen years getting to watch Sonic the Hedgehog, Beast Wars, ReBoot, Mighty Max, SWAT Kats, Gargoyles, Batman: TAS, shows that, like the movies mentioned above, sometimes asked the kids watching to deal with some heavy stuff. Besides that, they weren't comedically driven by simply being snide and sarcastic; they felt a bit more "honest" with their characters. So what if DinoBot didn't always have a quippy one-liner to respond to something dumb Waspinator said; you felt all the more saddened and emotionally stunned after you saw the "Code of Hero" episode.

Even in shows like Sonic or Mighty Max, where the main hero's "attitude" was supposed to sell products, the directors of the shows still managed to really add life and reality to them, giving them more impact as actual characters, and not just as talking commercials.

Hell, I even remember how important something like Pee Wee's Playhouse was to me as a kid. Yes, it had life lessons and whatnot, but it was a show that mainly stressed just enjoying being a kid above all other things.

I'm kind of rambling at this point, but here's what I'm getting at. I think we need to stop looking it as "old shows good, new shows bad." That's simply not always true.

But I do think that we need to start thinking about what kind of TONE is expressed to kids in the things they watch. I have no problems with kids seeing some sarcastic humor, but it'd be nice for them to get something a bit more "genuine" at some point, but I think that's beginning to get lost, as sarcastic style is where the money is.

Too bad.

[Brandon Walsh is Insane.]

Did one of your students use a put down from Hannah Montana on you recently?

I agree with what you're getting at, although I was watching He-Man, Voltron, Thundercats, Smurfs, Muppet Babies, and what not.

Just not GI Joe. That was horrible.

But I agree with your point.

[HMARK Center]

Hah, you'd be surprised at some of the stuff the kids will say. It's downright terrifying sometimes.

And I was a Muppet Babies kid, too...just a really young one when they first came around.

I also fully admit that part of my reasoning for posting this, aside from all the old school appreciation threads, is that I've been watching clips from The Brave Little Toaster on YouTube, and thoroughly enjoying it. Talk about not talking down to kids or pandering to them. Great flick to this day.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

You know the first three movies I remember watching as a kid?

The Wizard of Oz, Night of the Living Dead, and King Kong vs Godzilla.

F*** your Toaster.

Seriously though....I don't really have much of a point. I blame video games and Yu-Gi-Oh cards. Kids don't even like to play with toys anymore. No imagination. Everything and everyone tells them how to think and what to do. Kids today would be lost in the 80's, or even the 90's.

Can you imagine taking someone's 360 away and giving them a SNES? They'd cry for hours.

[THE Dinobot]

I haven't slept in a long while and you're point got lost in my tiny brain, HMark...but I learned how to talk from watching Ninja Turtle cartoons. Not how to actually speak, but what words to use, dude. Still to this day sound like Mikey's far dumber side. He's a rad guy who I learned a lot from. So while some kids currently may look-up to a jackass voiced by Eddie, an amphibian named after a renaissance is my grand inspiration in life.

And another thing, what's with kids these days liking candy and chips? Back in my day we only ate biscuits and lobster.

[HMARK Center]

Jul 23, 2008 9:18:40 GMT -5 Johnny Danger (Godz) said:

You know the first three movies I remember watching as a kid?

The Wizard of Oz, Night of the Living Dead, and King Kong vs Godzilla.

F*** your Toaster.

Seriously though....I don't really have much of a point. I blame video games and Yu-Gi-Oh cards. Kids don't even like to play with toys anymore. No imagination. Everything and everyone tells them how to think and what to do. Kids today would be lost in the 80's, or even the 90's.

Can you imagine taking someone's 360 away and giving them a SNES? They'd cry for hours.

To be fair, that trend was definitely under way in the 80's and 90's. We had our NES's, SNES's and Sega's, and tons of cartoons to keep us glued to the TV. It wasn't quite as pervasive as it is now, though, especially thanks to the 'Net.

But again, I think more of the problem for kids is that too much of their entertainment today either panders to them too much, talks down to them like they're imbeciles, or tries too hard to be "appealing to adults AND kids!".

Kids deserve entertainment that's honest, speaks to them in a straightforward manner, actually challenges them sometimes, and, above all else, allows them to watch it AS children, not as children pretending to think like adults.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

Jul 23, 2008 9:37:05 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Jul 23, 2008 9:18:40 GMT -5 Johnny Danger (Godz) said:

You know the first three movies I remember watching as a kid?

The Wizard of Oz, Night of the Living Dead, and King Kong vs Godzilla.

F*** your Toaster.

Seriously though....I don't really have much of a point. I blame video games and Yu-Gi-Oh cards. Kids don't even like to play with toys anymore. No imagination. Everything and everyone tells them how to think and what to do. Kids today would be lost in the 80's, or even the 90's.

Can you imagine taking someone's 360 away and giving them a SNES? They'd cry for hours.

To be fair, that trend was definitely under way in the 80's and 90's. We had our NES's, SNES's and Sega's, and tons of cartoons to keep us glued to the TV. It wasn't quite as pervasive as it is now, though, especially thanks to the 'Net.

But again, I think more of the problem for kids is that too much of their entertainment today either panders to them too much, talks down to them like they're imbeciles, or tries too hard to be "appealing to adults AND kids!".

Kids deserve entertainment that's honest, speaks to them in a straightforward manner, actually challenges them sometimes, and, above all else, allows them to watch it AS children, not as children pretending to think like adults.

Yeah, I can agree with some of that. Sure, I spent a LOT of time playing Nintendo, but I also didn't mind turning it off and doing something else. A few weeks ago, someone posted a story here about a kid in the UK who hung himself because his dad told him he couldn't play Wii because someone else was using the TV.

And I don't really watch cartoons aimed at kids these days, but from what I've seen younger relatives watching on the Disney Channel, its garbage. As for movies, I dunno, I don't watch many new ones....but I thought WALL-E was excellent for both kids and adults.

[ddt]

I definitely agree that entertainment for children, pre-teens and teens is much harsher, shall we say, in terms of sarcasm, cruel humour, the gross factor (i.e. tons of snot, puke, etc.), insults, violence, and even somewhat disturbing images. I also believe that this kind of entertainment is giving the kids who watch it the impression that it's ok to act this way and be gross and have a cruel wit and consider demented-looking images an art form to be imitated.

Not to sound like one of those "Why, when I was a kid..." people, but I remember growing up with a lot of shows and cartoons (even the superhero cartoons) where the focal point of the show was to teach the viewers a lesson of some sort; whether it be to play fair, believe in yourself, never give up, treat others the way you'd expect to be treated yourself, be kind to animals, don't take shortcuts in life, etc. These messages were conveyed not in a preachy way, but in a way that the kids could relate to and in an entertaining fashion. I honestly don't ever remember anyone I knew at that time to come away from watching these shows with a more sarcastic, cruel sense or humour, or a desire to draw twisted and/or sadistic-looking characters.

I'm not saying there wasn't programming that wasn't exactly appropriate, but I don't think it was anywhere near as graphic or negatively influential as it is now.

I often witness kids of 7 and 8 years saying things they shouldn't be saying, talking about things kids that age shouldn't know about, and doing things that shouldn't even be done by adults. I can't blame it solely on the programming intended for them, but I think a lot of it has to do with a lot of the shows that are aimed at kids. (Not to say all programming for kids now is harmful -- but a load of it is.)

I truly believe that the world of entertainment is low in morality, and all that matters is making a buck. For the most part, the programming generated for kids now isn't about promoting the right messages, but rather is about catering to the lowest common denominators, because that's what rakes in the viewers. It's this kind of harsh programming that makes kids think of Sesame Street and even Barney as lame.

Just my two cents.

[HMARK Center]

To be honest, I'm not huge on the morality aspect of it. Obviously, kids shows shouldn't be R-rated, but, well, I was (and still am) a HUGE fan of the original Ren and Stimpy episodes, which started airing around the time I was in second grade. Frankly, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's more the fact that there isn't much else to choose from that's a bit more disconcerting.

There's room for all kinds of entertainment, for kids and adults. Kids should have a wide range of different types of shows and movies they can watch, like more dramatic ones, more comedic ones, etc.

Don't forget, as well, some kids say/watch stuff they shouldn't because they're in an environment without ANY control. I had a whole room of second graders tell me they loved watching Family Guy...ok, fine, I like it, too, but I'm 23, you're 7.

It's like back in the day; there were always the handful of kids in class who saw Friday the 13th, and wanted to gloat about it to you later.

[ddt]

Jul 23, 2008 10:32:59 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Don't forget, as well, some kids say/watch stuff they shouldn't because they're in an environment without ANY control. I had a whole room of second graders tell me they loved watching Family Guy...ok, fine, I like it, too, but I'm 23, you're 7.

It's like back in the day; there were always the handful of kids in class who saw Friday the 13th, and wanted to gloat about it to you later.

I fully agree with this. As I said, I don't think entertainment is solely to blame. The lack of control in some environments is definitely a strong contributor to what we're talking about here, and I think the companies that churn out the less-than-ideal entertainment for kids are taking advantage of that.

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

You know what? I agree with this wholeheartedly.

I think that adults writing children's entertainment for the enjoyment of children's become something of a lost art. Around the mid 90's, creators went out of their way to make shows/films that could be enjoyed by adults as well as children- which there is nothing wrong with in itself, as that can translate into some great entertainment (shows like Pinky and the Brain, Animaniacs, heck, even Garfield and Friends).

I understand why it happened, though- likely as a counter reaction to the slew of shows throughout the 80's that stressed a wholesome, group-minded attitude (Get Along Gang, Care Bears, etc, etc). The following decade was the resurrection of the individual, something reflected in kid's entertainment.

There's nothing wrong with a little dryness now and then, but there's also a lack of whimsy lately.

[Janitor From Mars]

If I had kids that were nothing but rude and sarcastic to me, I'd probably force them to watch something else or get outside.

Parents have to learn not to take crap from their kids. They are parents and not the best friends of their kids.

Today's programming does sorely lack in basic values. I'm not a religious person but even when I was growing up, it was unacceptable to make snide remarks/sarcastic quips at my parents.

Also, today's kids are spoiled. They have 24 hour cartoon networks and they are bombarded constantly with shows catered towards them.

When I was younger, the only way we could watch cartoons was at 5-6am before school and on Saturday mornings.

[Throwback]

With all the kids I've worked with and been around over the years. I've noticed this. When shows like spongebob, fairly odd parents and fosters home for imaginary friends are on, The kids run wild and are bouncing off the walls. But when I put on something like Gummi Bears, Ducktales or Darkwing Duck. The kids sit very quietly and are entranced by what's on the screen.

That's gotta tell ya something