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Post by Slammywinner on Jul 24, 2008 10:59:16 GMT -5
Unless you read some official news, don't assume that. There are tons of theoories floating around and now Eckhart himself has said he wants to come back because he loved working with Bale. Besides, it's a friggin movie. There are no rules. You could drop 10 nukes on somebody and they could come back for a sequel. That makes no sense at all. They showed his funeral. They framed Batman for his death. Are we to believe Batman and Gordon took Harvey Dent and put him in a nunnery or something while staging a funeral? And if he is still alive and an insane killer, doesn't that mean the Joker wins and the city falls into darkness, so there was no point to the moral or ending of TDK? Or after Batman and Gordon thought they killed him, he somehow came back to life and escaped before they put him in the casket? So then why would the police be hunting Batman for the murder of Harvey Dent if Dent wasn't dead? If there was no murder, there was no crime. So if Dent isn't dead, there was no moral to the film, no justice for the conclusion and no logical setup point for the next movie...sure...and maybe Joel Schumacher will direct the next film... So bottom line is that every story in the second movie unravels without a dead Harvey dent, so I don't think Nolan would write something like that. So as to not be a total thread Jacker on this tangent.... I think Ventriliquist might be an interesting villian. But I'd screw with the backstory. I'd have a new DA pursue Batman for the death of Harvey Dent. And there would be a mysterious new mob boss in town, he's constantly talking from the car or the phone and no one sees him. But he's eventually exposed as the puppet. And the ventriliquist would be the new DA. But somehow, I don't think they'll be following up Joker with an obscure villian from the comics...it would be as weird as if they chose Egghead from the '60's show. I have a better plan for a 4th or 5th movie, which is to team up Scarecrow and Joker properly. Scarecrow knows how to make biological weapons that devestate the mind. Joker of the comics does too, but didn't really use that aspect of his chacater - he was more into knives and oil drums than nerve-gas. So I'd put these guys together and have Scarecrow make the poison gas that leaves people dead and smiling for Joker. Heck, you could even recruit a new villian into the story, like Riddler. But the story could focus around Batman becoming weary of his duties and psycologically maxed out. Then his two most psycologically devestating villians re-emerge and really push him to the brink or over the edge. Hell, that might even be a good excuse to introduce Robin as a character recruited by Batman to help keep him focused. I'd say do it in the next film, but they won't be using Joker right away since Heath Ledger died...
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Jul 24, 2008 11:09:15 GMT -5
Besides, it's a friggin movie. There are no rules. You could drop 10 nukes on somebody and they could come back for a sequel. That makes no sense at all. They showed his funeral. They framed Batman for his death. Are we to believe Batman and Gordon took Harvey Dent and put him in a nunnery or something while staging a funeral? And if he is still alive and an insane killer, doesn't that mean the Joker wins and the city falls into darkness, so there was no point to the moral or ending of TDK? Or after Batman and Gordon thought they killed him, he somehow came back to life and escaped before they put him in the casket? So then why would the police be hunting Batman for the murder of Harvey Dent if Dent wasn't dead? If there was no murder, there was no crime. So if Dent isn't dead, there was no moral to the film, no justice for the conclusion and no logical setup point for the next movie...sure...and maybe Joel Schumacher will direct the next film... So bottom line is that every story in the second movie unravels without a dead Harvey dent, so I don't think Nolan would write something like that. So as to not be a total thread Jacker on this tangent.... I think Ventriliquist might be an interesting villian. But I'd screw with the backstory. I'd have a new DA pursue Batman for the death of Harvey Dent. And there would be a mysterious new mob boss in town, he's constantly talking from the car or the phone and no one sees him. But he's eventually exposed as the puppet. And the ventriliquist would be the new DA. But somehow, I don't think they'll be following up Joker with an obscure villian from the comics...it would be as weird as if they chose Egghead from the '60's show. I have a better plan for a 4th or 5th movie, which is to team up Scarecrow and Joker properly. Scarecrow knows how to make biological weapons that devestate the mind. Joker of the comics does too, but didn't really use that aspect of his chacater - he was more into knives and oil drums than nerve-gas. So I'd put these guys together and have Scarecrow make the poison gas that leaves people dead and smiling for Joker. Heck, you could even recruit a new villian into the story, like Riddler. But the story could focus around Batman becoming weary of his duties and psycologically maxed out. Then his two most psycologically devestating villians re-emerge and really push him to the brink or over the edge. Hell, that might even be a good excuse to introduce Robin as a character recruited by Batman to help keep him focused. I'd say do it in the next film, but they won't be using Joker right away since Heath Ledger died... Did you even watch the movie? There is a ton of ways they explain why Harvey is not dead. They never checked if he was dead or anything so it is obviously a set up for them to bring him back. I think the best way to explain it will be this way. They fake Harvey's funeral after Gordon finds out the fall didn't really kill him. Then he sends him to some maximum prison secretly and he is held in isolation so no one knows he is alive. It is a perfect scenario that would work. I just don't see them getting rid of TwoFace yet. I think him dying was just a teaser.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 24, 2008 11:29:11 GMT -5
That makes no sense at all. They showed his funeral. They framed Batman for his death. Are we to believe Batman and Gordon took Harvey Dent and put him in a nunnery or something while staging a funeral? And if he is still alive and an insane killer, doesn't that mean the Joker wins and the city falls into darkness, so there was no point to the moral or ending of TDK? Or after Batman and Gordon thought they killed him, he somehow came back to life and escaped before they put him in the casket? So then why would the police be hunting Batman for the murder of Harvey Dent if Dent wasn't dead? If there was no murder, there was no crime. So if Dent isn't dead, there was no moral to the film, no justice for the conclusion and no logical setup point for the next movie...sure...and maybe Joel Schumacher will direct the next film... So bottom line is that every story in the second movie unravels without a dead Harvey dent, so I don't think Nolan would write something like that. So as to not be a total thread Jacker on this tangent.... I think Ventriliquist might be an interesting villian. But I'd screw with the backstory. I'd have a new DA pursue Batman for the death of Harvey Dent. And there would be a mysterious new mob boss in town, he's constantly talking from the car or the phone and no one sees him. But he's eventually exposed as the puppet. And the ventriliquist would be the new DA. But somehow, I don't think they'll be following up Joker with an obscure villian from the comics...it would be as weird as if they chose Egghead from the '60's show. I have a better plan for a 4th or 5th movie, which is to team up Scarecrow and Joker properly. Scarecrow knows how to make biological weapons that devestate the mind. Joker of the comics does too, but didn't really use that aspect of his chacater - he was more into knives and oil drums than nerve-gas. So I'd put these guys together and have Scarecrow make the poison gas that leaves people dead and smiling for Joker. Heck, you could even recruit a new villian into the story, like Riddler. But the story could focus around Batman becoming weary of his duties and psycologically maxed out. Then his two most psycologically devestating villians re-emerge and really push him to the brink or over the edge. Hell, that might even be a good excuse to introduce Robin as a character recruited by Batman to help keep him focused. I'd say do it in the next film, but they won't be using Joker right away since Heath Ledger died... Did you even watch the movie? There is a ton of ways they explain why Harvey is not dead. They never checked if he was dead or anything so it is obviously a set up for them to bring him back. I think the best way to explain it will be this way. They fake Harvey's funeral after Gordon finds out the fall didn't really kill him. Then he sends him to some maximum prison secretly and he is held in isolation so no one knows he is alive. It is a perfect scenario that would work. I just don't see them getting rid of TwoFace yet. I think him dying was just a teaser. To my mind he's right though. Sure there are ways Harvey could be alive, but his argument that I happen to agree with is a live Harvey weakens the entire premise of the ending.
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ItsaSantino
Trap-Jaw
Prepare to experience sexual magic
Posts: 425
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Post by ItsaSantino on Jul 24, 2008 12:02:42 GMT -5
I want Black Mask. He hates Bruce more than he hates Batman. I'd have him be or be related to the guy Bruce fired and Fox replaced in Batman Begins (I think his name was Earle). Actions have consequences. After he was fired, he used his cutthroat business practices to assume great power in the mob since there was kind of a job opening there. After all he was used to running a big business. Plus thie character was played by Rutger Hauer and he knows how to play evil pretty darn well
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Jul 24, 2008 12:10:34 GMT -5
Rutger Hauer becoming the Black Mask huh?
How old is Black Mask in the comics?
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Jul 24, 2008 12:14:46 GMT -5
Did you even watch the movie? There is a ton of ways they explain why Harvey is not dead. They never checked if he was dead or anything so it is obviously a set up for them to bring him back. I think the best way to explain it will be this way. They fake Harvey's funeral after Gordon finds out the fall didn't really kill him. Then he sends him to some maximum prison secretly and he is held in isolation so no one knows he is alive. It is a perfect scenario that would work. I just don't see them getting rid of TwoFace yet. I think him dying was just a teaser. To my mind he's right though. Sure there are ways Harvey could be alive, but his argument that I happen to agree with is a live Harvey weakens the entire premise of the ending. See I think it makes it stronger. It makes you question what really happend. Unless they make it clear, you will always question it. And I think for both Dent and Joker, the best thing would not have them for the next one, and bring Joker back in the 4th one and Dent in the 5th one.
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ItsaSantino
Trap-Jaw
Prepare to experience sexual magic
Posts: 425
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Post by ItsaSantino on Jul 24, 2008 12:16:11 GMT -5
Rutger Hauer becoming the Black Mask huh? How old is Black Mask in the comics? Not that old. That's the only thing that doesn't really fit, but IMHO is only a small detail when considering it keeps the theme of being a failed business man who hates Bruce Wayne. Plus it allows for a previously established character to become the next villian rather than introducing someone new entirely or retconning something in
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Post by Slammywinner on Jul 24, 2008 13:57:12 GMT -5
To my mind he's right though. Sure there are ways Harvey could be alive, but his argument that I happen to agree with is a live Harvey weakens the entire premise of the ending. See I think it makes it stronger. It makes you question what really happend. Unless they make it clear, you will always question it. And I think for both Dent and Joker, the best thing would not have them for the next one, and bring Joker back in the 4th one and Dent in the 5th one. So where does Gordon get the clout and funding to hide and imprison the DA? Isn't that more of a mob boss trick than honest-cop-Gordon? All Two-Face needs to do is reappear and then all the heat from the movie fizzles. Why would Batman need to take the fall for those murders? Why have a funeral for Dent? If it was to be open ended, then all they had to do was end it without showing the funeral... Now I'll give you, if they really intended to not bring him back for a few movies, then maybe that will work, but it's still kinda hard to explain the cover-up angle. The two-face story we got was awesome, but what happened in the comics doesn't need to happen in the movies.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Jul 24, 2008 14:12:37 GMT -5
I'd love to see Mad Hatter
he's a creepy villain & underrated to boot
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Post by DSR on Jul 24, 2008 15:11:54 GMT -5
Is there anyone in comics that HASN'T come back? Uncle Ben, Thomas and Martha Wayne, Spider-Man's parents (there were imposters yeah, but the real deal parents are still dead), and Obadiah Stane. To name a few. Think about it this way. The public at large has put all their hopes for a better Gotham in the hands of a DA who it turns out isn't entirely sane. Batman has knocked the guy out of a building (but you'll remember that "A fall from this height won't kill me" "I'm counting on it" scene). Now, there's dead bodies at the hand of Two-Face, regardless of whether or not he's dead, and if the public finds out he was a murderer, they're gonna lose all hope, basically. If you're Gordon or Batman, and Dent survived the fall, what exactly do you do with him? You can't exactly bring him before the public, as he'll probably out himself as a psychopath (to say nothing of the public's reaction to his disfigurement). And Jim Gordon already has one faked death under his belt. What can you do with Harvey, aside from lock him away in the deepest hidden corner of Arkham and hope to hell they have some psychiatrists that can straighten him out, while convincing the public that he died a hero, trying to save their city?
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Post by CrazySting on Jul 24, 2008 15:19:39 GMT -5
Mr Freeze would never work in Nolan's movies.
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Jam
Unicron
Spiral out
Posts: 2,934
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Post by Jam on Jul 24, 2008 18:10:06 GMT -5
The Penguin. I have a feeling Nolans version of The Penguin would own anything. Phillip Seymore Hoffman was born to play this role and it has to happen. Add in The Riddler as his business partner.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Jul 24, 2008 18:55:19 GMT -5
Wow, the current poll results agree with my outlook.
Riddler would be excellent in this reality, especially if played straight.
Bane - Just copy and paste the Knightfall arc and 80% of the work is done.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Jul 27, 2008 18:41:02 GMT -5
I'm just going to go through the villains on whether they could work or not in the current Batman style movies. Then make a choice.
The Riddler - Although he is a prominent villain I really can't see a guy who leaves riddles working too well in a Nolan film. The whole leaving clues behind as he commits crimes doesn't really lend itself to this films world. Plus I have never considered The Riddler as a major threat, perhaps if they concentrated on his obsessive compulisve problem in connection with another villain then maybe but otherwise I'd prefer to leave him to one side. (Although David Tennat being interested sounds like an awesome choice)
The Penguin - Ignoring the bird obsessed associations I think the Penguin could work really well as a smart ruthless 'Legitmate' mobster. Certainly a contender.
Catwoman - In light of Rachel Dawes demise Batman/Wayne does need a love interest and Catwoman is versatile to be used to enfatuate both of his alter egos. As a jewle thief she can pretty much be placed in any scenario and wokr so I am all for Catwoman being used.
The Mad Hatter - A good choice, epsecially if they were to lessen the Alice in wonderland trappings and concentrate more on the more darker tones he has taken. Mind Control, brainwashing etc (Although the idea of him being a pedophile and interested in little girls named 'Alice' might be too dark even for a Nolan Batman film) Killer Croc - Of all Batmans main villains Killer Croc is proabably the one I would find hardest to justify. A large thug with mutated reptilian traits I really can't see working, unless he was a henchman for a more brainy villain and even then I doubt it.
Clayface - Clayface suffers and benefits from a decent opportunity to do a good origin story. Also having had various personalities over the years he could work, but his supernatural abilites kind of diminishes him in a movie world where realism is considered important.
Talia Al-Ghul - On her own no, in connection with another villain then maybe. Certainly fills the female interst that will be required.
Poison Ivy - I really don't like Poison Ivy as a charcter, so I'm just going to say no.
Mr. Freeze - My preferred choice, he has a great back story, is a legitamate threat and is also a tragic villain perfect character to play off batman. Plus he isn't so far fetched that it would seem ridiculous perhaps use him as the main foe with the Penguin as a manipulator?
Bane - Bane is a problem in that he kind of needs villains to have gone before him before you can set up his main story 'Break the Bat'. However as a steroid drug pusher from the Batman Beyond cartoon I think it scould work really well, certainly has potential.
Harley Quinn - I'm just going to say No. Not because I dont' like the charcater but, mainly because I can't see The 'Dark Knight' Joker being interested in anything other than creating chaos for Batman. I really can't see there Joker charcter having a love interest or even letting Harley live for very long. It wouldn't work.
The rest I'll be brief on (If I missed some it's because I don't think they should be used ever)
Lady Shiva - Not really feeling the idea of her, despite the Ra's al Ghul connection.
Black Mask - A good decent background mob boss (With a darker side), plus the emnity towards Wayne as opposed to Batman certainly adds to him for a film role.
Calendar Man - Ok, haha lets just move on.
Firefly - If he was an arsonist of some sort then certainly a possibility.
Killer Moth - An anti-batman for ciminals probably wouldn't work too well, the demon thing would just be silly.
The Ventriloquist and Scarface - Has the possibilit to work well, although getting Scarface right would be the key.
Man-Bat - Just no, leave charcters like this to cartoons or Spider-man.
Hush - The backstory to this character would just take far too long and his motives are frankly not that great. A poor choice.
Deacon Blackfire - Maybe as a side story to the main villain.
Others
Mr. Zsasz - He escaped in the first film, would certainly fit in with the dark stylings of the films and has a edge of realism to him that would certainly be scary.
Overall I think I would go with Catwoman & The Black Mask, with a seriously creepy Mad Hatter lurking in the shadows as the true villain.
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Post by Macho Dude Handy Damage on Jul 27, 2008 21:09:11 GMT -5
So with a new movie seem almost impossible not to be made after how successful Dark Knight was. Not to mention the fact that Christian Bale, Gary Oldman and Michael Caine have all signed on for 3 films, as according to this FAQedit: Oh yeah, I pick The Riddler and Catwoman.
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Jay Peas 42
El Dandy
Totally flips out ALL the time.
Is looking forward to a Nation of Domination Kwannza Special.
Posts: 8,329
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Jul 27, 2008 21:55:06 GMT -5
Mr. Freeze: Look, the only good thing anyone has done with the character was "Heart of Ice." Other than that, he's just a guy in a hazmat suit, with a freeze gun and cold fetish, which makes him less dangerous than a street punk. You see, they have guns that shoot bullets. So unless they want to use an almost twenty year old story from a cartoon, I doubt Mr. Freeze will be used.
Look, I think it's clear it's probably going to be two of the primary villians (Riddler, Catwoman, Penguin et al) since basically, those characters have the widest appeal. I think any character can be shoehorned into this Bat-Universe, and after they were all butchered by "The Batman" (Hi, I'm Ozzie, meet my friends, Marilyn Mansion and Cat-Goggles.) they deserve a second chance. Look, Scarecrow and Ras Al-Ghul wouldn't look great in the first film at first glance either, Scarecrow had that horrible Superfriends run, and is made of straw, and Ras was an immortal (he still may have been, though.) So they can retool anyone. Well, maybe except the Monk. I mean, Vampire? C'mon.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Jul 27, 2008 22:21:02 GMT -5
I agree with the majority. I suspect if they don't recast Joker then Riddler might be doing a lot of the things Joker was originally meant to do. I believe Nolan said he won't be doing Penguin and I think Mr. Freeze is probably not going to be put in either. They sort of teased Catwoman might make an appearance in the series. I would mark a little if Harley Quinn showed up.
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Post by Panda Bear on Jul 27, 2008 22:23:41 GMT -5
Firefly, the dudes fight scenes would be amazing. Or Clayface.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jul 27, 2008 22:56:26 GMT -5
I am here to say that I am abstaining from this poll because I dont care.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jul 27, 2008 23:14:23 GMT -5
I'm sticking with my Riddler/Croc idea from a few pages back, but upon reflection, Firefly would work REALLY well in Nolan's universe, considering that he's a villian with a logical, explainable, and most of all, realistic modus operandi.
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