Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 25, 2008 18:44:44 GMT -5
There's no real clear definition of a worked shoot. But fine, I won't call it that. I'll just call it what it is--stupid. YOU'RE Stupid! Seriously, why is it stupid? What did they do to insult your intelligence, or are you just going along with "Any angle has Russo involves, so it's automatic crap to me" mantra? Pro wrestling is fake. Let's not try to make it look faker.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2008 18:48:28 GMT -5
Also, WWE has and would do something like this.
When Vince Mcmahon "Died", they had it so he wouldn't make any public appearances and on WWE.com they were reporting how the FBI was doing a full investigation.
When John Cena was "Stabbed" in a nightclub, they had an address you could send get well wishes to.
It's not a worked-shoot, just a way to add depth to a storyline.
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Ace Diamond
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Post by Ace Diamond on Jul 25, 2008 18:49:35 GMT -5
YOU'RE Stupid! Seriously, why is it stupid? What did they do to insult your intelligence, or are you just going along with "Any angle has Russo involves, so it's automatic crap to me" mantra? Pro wrestling is fake. Let's not try to make it look faker. *bing* In fact I think I just figured out why I hate this angle so damn much. Because I've seen it before. Chavo Guerrero, WWE, 2005. Loses a title match, quits because he couldn't "do it for Eddie, yo," comes back later. Only difference being they didn't hype up the "fake" quitting beforehand on wwe.com, didn't have mentally deficient sappy music playing in the background of his post-quitting interview with Jim Ross, and didn't have Karen Angle interviewing him. I'm sure there's a lot more I could gripe about but what's the point, really. Nobody's going to change their minds
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 25, 2008 18:59:12 GMT -5
YOU'RE Stupid! Seriously, why is it stupid? What did they do to insult your intelligence, or are you just going along with "Any angle has Russo involves, so it's automatic crap to me" mantra? Pro wrestling is fake. Let's not try to make it look faker. How does it make it faker? It's not exactly something too outlandish to believe. Hell, a lot of people were believing it until I had to break it down.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 25, 2008 19:02:09 GMT -5
Pro wrestling is fake. Let's not try to make it look faker. How does it make it faker? It's not exactly something too outlandish to believe. Hell, a lot of people were believing it until I had to break it down. All right: Now, let's say that Kaz was going after the Title then held by Kurt Angle. right? Okay, if he said "I'm quitting because I should've been scripted to beat Kurt Angle and all the promos they write for me suck". then it ruins the whole thing.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 25, 2008 19:06:09 GMT -5
How does it make it faker? It's not exactly something too outlandish to believe. Hell, a lot of people were believing it until I had to break it down. All right: Now, let's say that Kaz was going after the Title then held by Kurt Angle. right? Okay, if he said "I'm quitting because I should've been scripted to beat Kurt Angle and all the promos they write for me suck". then it ruins the whole thing. But he isn't. He's not talking out of character or trying to break the fourth wall. It's all kayfabe.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 25, 2008 19:08:39 GMT -5
All right: Now, let's say that Kaz was going after the Title then held by Kurt Angle. right? Okay, if he said "I'm quitting because I should've been scripted to beat Kurt Angle and all the promos they write for me suck". then it ruins the whole thing. But he isn't. He's not talking out of character or trying to break the fourth wall. It's all kayfabe. I'm using that line as a example of a "worked-shoot", Sinister. In theory, why would anyone care if you knew that Kaz would not beat Kurt Angle?
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 25, 2008 19:14:40 GMT -5
But he isn't. He's not talking out of character or trying to break the fourth wall. It's all kayfabe. I'm using that line as a example of a "worked-shoot", Sinister. In theory, why would anyone care if you knew that Kaz would not beat Kurt Angle? I see, but the thing is it's not a worked-shoot.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 25, 2008 19:16:28 GMT -5
I'm using that line as a example of a "worked-shoot", Sinister. In theory, why would anyone care if you knew that Kaz would not beat Kurt Angle? I see, but the thing is it's not a worked-shoot. Well, my friend, what is the so-called "Worked-shoot" in your eyes?
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 25, 2008 19:22:53 GMT -5
I see, but the thing is it's not a worked-shoot. Well, my friend, what is the so-called "Worked-shoot" in your eyes? Like you said, like if Kaz complains that he should've been scripted to be Kurt angle and everything. However, he's not doing that. All the build to it was in kayfabe, with the video talking about his various matches and his shots, and then Kaz talking about his roots and training and not at all talking about booking and rankings and stuff like that.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 25, 2008 19:25:49 GMT -5
Well, my friend, what is the so-called "Worked-shoot" in your eyes? Like you said, like if Kaz complains that he should've been scripted to be Kurt angle and everything. However, he's not doing that. All the build to it was in kayfabe, with the video talking about his various matches and his shots, and then Kaz talking about his roots and training and not at all talking about booking and rankings and stuff like that. Yes, I am aware of that. I was debating with you the idea and principle of the "Worked-shoot" itself. I just used Kaz as a person in my presentation.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 25, 2008 19:28:37 GMT -5
Like you said, like if Kaz complains that he should've been scripted to be Kurt angle and everything. However, he's not doing that. All the build to it was in kayfabe, with the video talking about his various matches and his shots, and then Kaz talking about his roots and training and not at all talking about booking and rankings and stuff like that. Yes, I am aware of that. I was debating with you the idea and principle of the "Worked-shoot" itself. I just used Kaz as a person in my presentation. Well, like I said, I don't disagree with your view on it. I just don't see how this angle qualifies. That's where I wanted some clarification.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 25, 2008 19:29:58 GMT -5
Yes, I am aware of that. I was debating with you the idea and principle of the "Worked-shoot" itself. I just used Kaz as a person in my presentation. Well, like I said, I don't disagree with your view on it. I just don't see how this angle qualifies. That's where I wanted some clarification. Ah, everything becomes clear now. I misinterpeted your statements incorrectly then.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Jul 25, 2008 22:02:58 GMT -5
There's no real clear definition of a worked shoot. But fine, I won't call it that. I'll just call it what it is--stupid. YOU'RE Stupid! Seriously, why is it stupid? What did they do to insult your intelligence, or are you just going along with "Any angle has Russo involves, so it's automatic crap to me" mantra? Any angle involving Russo IS crap, but that's beside the point. "I'm quitting" angles are always stupid. For one simple reason: we ALL know it's bullshit. Not just the IWC. Not just smarks. Not just smart marks. Or whatever the hell else there is out there, EVERYONE knows it. And we've seen them so much, that--even though this is kinda off topic--I recall my father walking into the room when I was watching Ric Flair's legitimate retirement, and he said, "Oh, he'll be back." So, I pretty much knew this angle would suck the moment I saw mention of it. And the more I see of it, the more convinced I am. Because some things are just universal, and "I'm quitting" angles always are. And Vince Russo is still an idiot.
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Post by Square on Jul 25, 2008 22:10:53 GMT -5
next week "Az-K" the masked luchadore
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Post by Voldemar H. "Brak" Guerta on Jul 26, 2008 4:23:47 GMT -5
I don't understand how this dumb angle will help Kaz. To most he just comes off as a whiny quitter, who couldn't tough out a orugh spot in his career and has decided to just quit than to persevere. If he had a serious (and real, mind you) personal issue, much like Jarrett, it would be perfectly acceptable for him to walk away, and likewise a future surprise return would be appreciated much more. In Kaz's case, when he eventually comes back to TV (likely in less than a month), the smarks will go "Pfft, what was the point of him leaving?" and the marks will go "Hey, that loser is back, big deal". I really like Kazarian, but this idiotic angle helps him in no way. It would have made more sense for him to realize his current limits and focus on the X-Division Title for the time being, then parlay that success into a run at Joe. This whole angle sucks.
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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on Jul 26, 2008 11:39:08 GMT -5
Jim Duggan did this last week and no one really claimed how stupid it was. He came out into the ring and said he was retiring. Sure by the end of the promo Duggan agreed to stay when Lawler talked him out of it, but it was still an "I am quitting" angle albeit short.
That's likely to be the same thing Kaz does, only it will be spread out over a couple weeks. He says he quits, something or someone will convince him to stay, and he'll agree to stay and fight.
I only draw this comparison because once again it seems to be like WWE seems to get a lot more slack when it comes to doing stuff like this.
Likewise I don't understand why so many people are getting upset over this Kaz angle. Both TNA and WWE have done storylines that were far more stupid than this. I'm sure both companies have done stuff in the last 4 weeks that were far worse than this.
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Post by The Tank on Jul 26, 2008 12:15:58 GMT -5
next week "Az-K" the masked luchadore f*** that, it'll be the return of White Sunshine. (or whatever the f*** that guy was called.)
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Jul 26, 2008 15:33:10 GMT -5
Jim Duggan did this last week and no one really claimed how stupid it was. He came out into the ring and said he was retiring. Sure by the end of the promo Duggan agreed to stay when Lawler talked him out of it, but it was still an "I am quitting" angle albeit short. That's likely to be the same thing Kaz does, only it will be spread out over a couple weeks. He says he quits, something or someone will convince him to stay, and he'll agree to stay and fight. I only draw this comparison because once again it seems to be like WWE seems to get a lot more slack when it comes to doing stuff like this. Likewise I don't understand why so many people are getting upset over this Kaz angle. Both TNA and WWE have done storylines that were far more stupid than this. I'm sure both companies have done stuff in the last 4 weeks that were far worse than this. Duggan has the justification of considering retirement, which at his age actually makes sense. Plus, there' actually a reason behind the whole thing--to put more heat on Rhodes and Dibiase for constantly putting down the loveable Duggan. Kaz's supposed departure, like so many other TNA angles, is just another act in Russo's stupidity. And that's not giving WWE a free pass. That's acknowledging that the Duggan angle, while kinda silly, at least makes a little sense and serves a purpose. TNA can't really say the same.
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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on Jul 26, 2008 16:18:25 GMT -5
Jim Duggan did this last week and no one really claimed how stupid it was. He came out into the ring and said he was retiring. Sure by the end of the promo Duggan agreed to stay when Lawler talked him out of it, but it was still an "I am quitting" angle albeit short. That's likely to be the same thing Kaz does, only it will be spread out over a couple weeks. He says he quits, something or someone will convince him to stay, and he'll agree to stay and fight. I only draw this comparison because once again it seems to be like WWE seems to get a lot more slack when it comes to doing stuff like this. Likewise I don't understand why so many people are getting upset over this Kaz angle. Both TNA and WWE have done storylines that were far more stupid than this. I'm sure both companies have done stuff in the last 4 weeks that were far worse than this. Duggan has the justification of considering retirement, which at his age actually makes sense. Plus, there' actually a reason behind the whole thing--to put more heat on Rhodes and Dibiase for constantly putting down the loveable Duggan. Kaz's supposed departure, like so many other TNA angles, is just another act in Russo's stupidity. And that's not giving WWE a free pass. That's acknowledging that the Duggan angle, while kinda silly, at least makes a little sense and serves a purpose. TNA can't really say the same. Fair enough, I'll agree that Hacksaw announcing a retirement is a lot more logical than Kaz quitting in the midst of a big push, since Hacksaw probably will be retiring soon anyway, whereas Kaz leaving seems to be out of left field. Likewise after I made my post, I doubted myself because I'm thinking that Duggan's so-called retirement was really just a plot point in the Rhodes/Dibiase stuff, and it started and ended right then and there. Whereas with Kaz quitting, it's more along the lines of "Kaz is quitting, tune into Impact to find out why!" I'll admit my comparison wasn't too great. My point was just that speaking in the broad general sense, WWE seems to get more leeway when it comes to Wrestlecrap than TNA does. Like when JBL ran over Cena and "grazed" him with the car, I was finding that most people were talking about how cutting edge it was. Whereas if it was Kurt Angle running over Joe with a car, I could picture tons of people (not just here, but all over) saying how dumb it was.
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