The NWA and Draws

[celtics543]

I was watching the new Ric Flair dvd today, and I watched the 45 minute match between Flair and Sting where it ended in a draw. Was this just an NWA thing because I can't remember the WWF ever having their big matches end in draws. Double DQ's, countouts, regular DQ's, whatever, but never a time limit draw.

Now why am I bringing this up, because I believe that having all these draws is what led to the WWF being seen as better than the NWA. As this match was from before I was born and I had never seen it before, I got to watch it as a mark, and when it was done, I was VERY disappointed that there was a draw ending. I didn't care who won, but if I watch a 45 minute match, I want some kind of conclusive ending. Does anyone else feel this way?

Maybe it's because I was born in '88, and grew up watching Hogan/Warrior squash people and then Bret and Shawn wrestler great matches that had conclusive winners or at least some type of satisfied ending. I feel like having the Flair/Sting match or any other championship level match that lasts an hour end in a draw would be like if Shawn vs Bret at WM 12 had ended in a draw. How anticlimatic would that have been?

It also makes the champion look weak when he keeps wrestling all these guys to draws. I know he had to make every promotions top guys look good, but there had to be a better way than just to wrestle him to a draw. Just cheat to win or have a Dusty finish or something.

So pretty much I'm just looking for some of the old school NWA fans, to tell me what they thought of all the draws and if it made them stop watching.

[Andrew is Good]

I'm not an old school NWA fan, but I think the logic behind draws is to help make opponents, as well as keep the credibility of the Champion. Especially a heel champion, who ends up keeping his heat. People can say to the guy, oh, you never really beat anybody, what kind of champion are you.

But if a challenger hangs with the World Champion, then they're made. That match in particular is the reason Sting is who is he today. If it wasn't for that time limit draw with Flair, I don't know where Sting would be today. If he beat Flair, the response may've been luke warm as he may not have been ready for the belt. If Flair beat him, he was just another challenger in the path.

Plus, the Champion always has the advantage anyway. The whole point of a Championship match is for the challenger to beat the champion, the Champion just has to retain.

[lildude8218]

WWF house shows had draws all the time. Usually not in the main event though.

[efarns]

Andrew is Good made a lot of good points.

Also, in the territorial days, if the NWA champ came in and steamrolled the local champion, it kind of makes the whole territory look bad. With a draw, the next time the champ came into town, fans would think their hero had a shot to win, so they'd pay to come watch history be made and the promotion would make more money. The Sting/Flair draw was that same philosophy - fans thought that, if time hadn't run out, Sting would have won the title. So the next time they met, it was an even bigger deal.

[Crappler El 0 M]

NWA didn't do draws based on judges, but they often had time limit draws.

[NOwave]

60 minute time limit draws were very popular, particularly back in the territory days, for the reasons stated here.

Time limit draws require both participants to be very skillful storytellers in the ring. The WWF rarely emphasized technical wrestling or the storytelling aspects of a match, so they didn't do many time limit draws. It's just a difference in styles.

I like the idea of a time limit draw, but I came of age in memphis, TN, watching Gene Kiniski, Terry Funk and Harley Race come to town and wrestle 60 minute draws with Jackie Fargo and Jerry Lawler.

[Joekishi]

I didn't ever like the draw or over the top rule.

you know Flair would throw somebody over the top rope to get DQ'd and retain the title.

What I would get in WWF was an ending, atleast even if it was screwy they couldn't go back and change it, the ref's decision was final.

In WCW/NWA the ref would go back, Flair would be re-awarded the belt, and he'd move on to the next feud.

Seriously though, the time limit draw would piss me off in TV title matches, especially when Regal was champ.

[domrep]

The over the top thing was instituted during Bill Watts' reign in WCW which lasted like what...half a year?

[boomhauer20055]

Time limit draws happened a lot in the NWA on televised matches. I think they were mainly used for teasers to get you to come to the live shows and in later years ppvs.

[nerdinitupagain]

Jul 14, 2008 22:18:54 GMT -5 domrep said:

The over the top thing was instituted during Bill Watts' reign in WCW which lasted like what...half a year?

Okay this is something that annoys me because everyone always gives WCW the crap on the over the top rope rule. The rule that Watts had that was really annoying was the no top rope maneuver rule.

Both promotions had the over the top rule in place. WCW was actually the first to come out and say the rule was no more around 94/95. I can't remember exactly, but I specifically remember watching Nitro and seeing whoever was acting on screen authority person saying that WCW was doing away with the rule and some slight jab at the WWF for still having it.

[destrucity]

I don't remember the WWE ever having the over-the top rule. I can't think of even one WWE match that ended by DQ because the champ threw someone over the top rope.

[darkpatriot]

I remember reading that Watts was going to do away with the top rope rule eventually.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2008 21:39:02 GMT -5 Andrew is Good said:

But if a challenger hangs with the World Champion, then they're made. That match in particular is the reason Sting is who is he today. If it wasn't for that time limit draw with Flair, I don't know where Sting would be today.

Precisely. Hanging with the World Champ gave contenders that went the distance with him tons of credibility, and in some cases (like Sting in this match on the Clash), they were MADE in the process.

[Bobby Womack]

Jul 14, 2008 11:56:57 GMT -5 Joekishi said:

Seriously though, the time limit draw would piss me off in TV title matches, especially when Regal was champ.

yeah, wasnt it only like 10 minutes? i always thought it was ridiculously short considering the quality of the workers that came through that division

[markdown474]

Jul 15, 2008 1:40:52 GMT -5 destrucity said:

I don't remember the WWE ever having the over-the top rule. I can't think of even one WWE match that ended by DQ because the champ threw someone over the top rope.

Neither can I.

[Joekishi]

Jul 15, 2008 0:33:53 GMT -5 nerdinitupagain said:

Jul 14, 2008 22:18:54 GMT -5 domrep said:

The over the top thing was instituted during Bill Watts' reign in WCW which lasted like what...half a year?

Okay this is something that annoys me because everyone always gives WCW the crap on the over the top rope rule. The rule that Watts had that was really annoying was the no top rope maneuver rule.

Both promotions had the over the top rule in place. WCW was actually the first to come out and say the rule was no more around 94/95. I can't remember exactly, but I specifically remember watching Nitro and seeing whoever was acting on screen authority person saying that WCW was doing away with the rule and some slight jab at the WWF for still having it.

Hogan tossed Perfect over the top all the time in their matches. Bret would get tossed, the rockers would get tossed, Undertaker's signature spot was getting hit over the top rope only to land on his feet.

I don't ever remember anybody in WWF getting DQ'd for tossing somebody over the top.

hell that was Berzerker's finisher

Also Regal as TV champ I think was supposed to piss me off, the lay and sprawl, the stalling. It fit into his character, but then he'd fight somebody like Brad Armstrong or Alex Wright, who'd do all this cool high flying and high impact fast paced stuff.

Then it was over after Regal had them in a headlock for like 5 minutes.

That's why I hated his feud with Zbysko. The whole match consisted of a bunch of stalling until Larry locked in that sugar hold and Regal tapped...

blah

[x]

Time limit draws are my favorite way of building ones credibility.

Sting got made by hanging with the champ in a time limit draw.

And remember that guy who's the current World Champion? Punk would not be where he is today without his two time limit draws with Samoa Joe.

[Samoa Kenny]

Jul 16, 2008 13:12:55 GMT -5 markdown474 said:

Jul 15, 2008 1:40:52 GMT -5 destrucity said:

I don't remember the WWE ever having the over-the top rule. I can't think of even one WWE match that ended by DQ because the champ threw someone over the top rope.

Neither can I.

I remember a match where the Rock and Roll express were in WWF as some kind of "talent exchange" with Smokey Mountain and they got thrown over the top and thought they had won by DQ(because of SM rules) only to have the match continue

[Joekishi]

Jul 16, 2008 18:56:13 GMT -5 @x said:

Time limit draws are my favorite way of building ones credibility.

Sting got made by hanging with the champ in a time limit draw.

And remember that guy who's the current World Champion? Punk would not be where he is today without his two time limit draws with Samoa Joe.

Yes he would, those two matches with Joe didn't add to his crediblity, it was the feud with Raven that made him stand out.

[darkpatriot]

Punk had Raven,Funk,Steamboat and Foley come in to put him over,think he was a favorite of someone?