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Post by Chuckie Finster on Aug 12, 2008 6:35:07 GMT -5
Speaking of such, I just saw today that annouced for the next IGF show (Inoki's off-shoot organization/carnival/three-ring circus aka Inoki wasting money) that RVD will be wrestling.
It'll be a 3 way with RVD vs Kendo Kashin (former New Japan junior and shootfighter) vs THE NECRO BUTCHER~!
The event is on 8/15 so it'll be most interesting to see how it goes down.
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Post by x on Aug 12, 2008 6:47:32 GMT -5
Show me another wrestler who can sell a piledriver as well as RVD sold Tommy Dreamer's piledriver (he launched himself 6 feet in the air upon hitting the canvas). Overselling is not GOOD selling. No one before or since has ever done what RVD did. He's the only one to EVER sell the piledriver like that. Not even the most ridiculously overselling spot-monkies do crap like that. Is it visually impressive? Yeah, sure, but it makes no sense for a guy to shoot up like that. Exactly. The way he oversells makes people say "Did you see the way RVD took the piledriver? Did you see the way he sold the RKO?" Selling is about making the guy you're working with look good, not steal his heat by taking a risky bump off of it.
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Post by Cypress on Aug 12, 2008 9:10:05 GMT -5
I love RVD, def in my presonal top 5 all time
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Post by "Handsome" Whitey Fats on Aug 12, 2008 9:23:49 GMT -5
He's garbage, always has been. It took a wrestling god like Jerry Lynn to carry him to watchable matches. Can't work, can't talk, can't do anything but hardcore, and only then if he's with an actual talent. One of the worse WWE champions of all time, it sickened me that a lifetime midcarder with no discernable talent or skills managed to kiss ass enogh to get the title, the smurfed it up by smoking the chiba. I hope he never comes back, he's never once wrestled anything resembling a decent match not involving jerry lynn
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Aug 12, 2008 9:24:15 GMT -5
Exactly. The way he oversells makes people say "Did you see the way RVD took the piledriver? Did you see the way he sold the RKO?" Selling is about making the guy you're working with look good, not steal his heat by taking a risky bump off of it. I will give the piledriver to ya as a stupid bump, but personally, I loved the RKO bump (assuming it's what I'm thinking of) and it wasn't too reckless and looked like the ideal sell for it. Face first, wrench the neck, thought that was really well sold. But that's just me
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Hiroshi Hase
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The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 12, 2008 9:45:00 GMT -5
To me, RVD will always be right up there in my lists of favourite wrestlers. Personal opinion, but I thought he should never have been stripped of the WWE / ECW titles just for smoking a bit of weed. After all, JBL gave a Nazi salute in a country where it is illegal and was given the WWE title a few days later. Not to mention the countless other wrestlers who've held onto their spots / runs despite DUIs / Steroid abuse etc in the past. Like I said, a personal gripe but it makes me think that the company had a lot less time for RVD than others. Still, at least he was champ.... That is true, but you have to understand RVD wasn't very well-liked by the upper management, so bascially he couldn't do whatever he wanted and get away with it. JBL on the other hand is very tight with McMahon, so he could pretty much get away with murder and still get a WWE title reign. RVD should've known that and should've kept himself clean long enough to show management that it wasn't a mistake to put the belt on him.
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Post by eDemento2099 on Aug 12, 2008 10:30:56 GMT -5
Overselling is not GOOD selling. No one before or since has ever done what RVD did. He's the only one to EVER sell the piledriver like that. Not even the most ridiculously overselling spot-monkies do crap like that. Is it visually impressive? Yeah, sure, but it makes no sense for a guy to shoot up like that. Exactly. The way he oversells makes people say "Did you see the way RVD took the piledriver? Did you see the way he sold the RKO?" Selling is about making the guy you're working with look good, not steal his heat by taking a risky bump off of it. I say it did look good; it make it look like Dreamer landed his piledriver with a lot more force (kayfabe) than most guys land theirs. The extra force at which RVD hit the mat is what caused his body to fly off the canvas, kayfabe-wise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2008 10:39:14 GMT -5
The definition of "overrated". A bunch of kicks, crapty forearms, and ONE cool move(The five star frog splash) and ridiculous overselling that any other wrestler would be crucified for. Yeah, I really don't see how the cat is as well reputed as he is. Show me another wrestler who can sell a piledriver as well as RVD sold Tommy Dreamer's piledriver (he launched himself 6 feet in the air upon hitting the canvas). I agree that it was awesome but you asked so I must answer? Val Venis. The man sells the piledriver like that as well as a ridiculous DDT
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Post by MM is on a Drunken Patera Rant on Aug 12, 2008 10:56:11 GMT -5
So I see a lot of people decided to go into their same old standard replies that they've been saying for years without actually reading my responses to those criticisms. Also after reading some of the replies in this thread, I have to wonder what wrestling some people are watching in this thread or where this hatred is coming from. I'm starting to think that people unconsciously hate RVD and ECW because they're too young or they fear the awesomeness. But I'm still waiting for valid RVD criticism.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 12, 2008 11:04:18 GMT -5
So I see a lot of people decided to go into their same old standard replies that they've been saying for years without actually reading my responses to those criticisms. Also after reading some of the replies in this thread, I have to wonder what wrestling some people are watching in this thread or where this hatred is coming from. I'm starting to think that people unconsciously hate RVD and ECW because they're too young or they fear the awesomeness. But I'm still waiting for valid RVD criticism. Depends on what you consider old standard replies. I don't see myself saying anything different than what I said two years ago when it happened. RVD has said in interviews while he was in WWE that the upper management wasn't crazy about him. He gave them all the ammo they needed to show Vince that he's not reliable as a champion and he didn't have friends at the top to lobby for him to keep him in his good graces. A guy like JBL could get away with such a thing because he plays politics. Does it suck sometimes? Yes, but that's life. I'd say my point is pretty valid, if RVD knew that people in WWE didn't like him that much, why not prove them wrong by showing you can not get pulled over by the cops for having drugs? I don't know exactly what you were hoping to read when starting this thread, that people would just agree with you?
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Aug 12, 2008 11:04:52 GMT -5
So I see a lot of people decided to go into their same old standard replies that they've been saying for years without actually reading my responses to those criticisms. Also after reading some of the replies in this thread, I have to wonder what wrestling some people are watching in this thread or where this hatred is coming from. I'm starting to think that people unconsciously hate RVD and ECW because they're too young or they fear the awesomeness. But I'm still waiting for valid RVD criticism. I stand by my argument as being valid.
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Post by MM is on a Drunken Patera Rant on Aug 12, 2008 11:30:27 GMT -5
Man Stryker you and I disagree a lot, it's like we're the polar opposites of Wrestlecrap. We could have been a sitcom on TGIF. Two wacky young roommates, one is a left leaning pot smoking enthusiast of extreme wrestling and RVD and the other is vitamins, staying in school and saying his prayers type of guy. We could have like a wacky foreign neighbor who's always trying to do get rich quick schemes on our show. It'd be off the chain.
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Post by "Handsome" Whitey Fats on Aug 12, 2008 11:38:50 GMT -5
So I see a lot of people decided to go into their same old standard replies that they've been saying for years without actually reading my responses to those criticisms. Also after reading some of the replies in this thread, I have to wonder what wrestling some people are watching in this thread or where this hatred is coming from. I'm starting to think that people unconsciously hate RVD and ECW because they're too young or they fear the awesomeness. But I'm still waiting for valid RVD criticism. So because we don't swing off of his nuts our opinions aren't valid? Arrogant much? And too young?!? He's got to be damn near 40
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Evil Jan Otto
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Post by Evil Jan Otto on Aug 12, 2008 12:11:33 GMT -5
Show me another wrestler who can sell a piledriver as well as RVD sold Tommy Dreamer's piledriver (he launched himself 6 feet in the air upon hitting the canvas). Overselling is not GOOD selling. No one before or since has ever done what RVD did. He's the only one to EVER sell the piledriver like that. Not even the most ridiculously overselling spot-monkies do crap like that. Is it visually impressive? Yeah, sure, but it makes no sense for a guy to shoot up like that. Sorry, must butt in there. The Rock, one of the three greatest wrestlers that ever graced WWE, sold stuff like he was being shot out of a torpedo (e.g. the handspring stunner). Look at Randy Orton. He oversells and it looks sweet. The way he bends and falls on his face with his arms by his sides after a superkick is phenomenal. And HBK's overselling was the only good thing in the Hogan/Michaels match.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Aug 12, 2008 12:21:24 GMT -5
I like RVD. Always have.
The one and only criticism that people have of him I'm inclined to agree with is that he didn't adapt well to WWE's safe style. His fans, myself included, tend to complain that the E's style watered down what he could do, and his work suffered. True, but he really should've tried to adapt somehow in order to fit the E's mold (they were his bosses, after all) and find a way to still be unique. He never really tried to do that, and just stuck with his own 3 moves of doom--Corkscrew Legdrop, Rolling Thunder, Five-Star Frog Splash--which just fueled the fire of his critics that he's just a spot monkey who flips and kicks.
Let's clear one thing up, though. Jerry Lynn didn't "carry" RVD. That's simply false. And Lynn himself would say the same thing. Both men brought out the best in each other, much like Ricky Steamboat and Flair (and no, I have no qualms with comparing RVD/Lynn matches to Steamboat/Flair matches). In addition to great matches with Lynn, RVD had stellar matches against Sabu, Lance Storm, and Taz. Now, while Storm and Taz might be able to carry someone, Sabu couldn't to save his life, but he and Rob still had good matches.
Anyway, I've always rolled my eyes at the "flippy/kicky" and "he smokes put! bust his ass!" accusations. I've just seen too many matches where Rob put on an awesome performance that involved great wrestling (like a title defense against Kurt on ECW), and people overreact waaayyy too much about marijuana.
But his failure to adapt to WWE is a valid criticism. It would be one thing if it looked like he at least tried to adapt and still be unique, but it never appeared that way. It came across more like he figure out a handful of moves he could get away with and used them over and over. I'll always be a big fan of Rob's, but his WWE work was less than stellar. And it's unfair to put all the blame on the E for that.
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Aug 12, 2008 12:32:03 GMT -5
Man Stryker you and I disagree a lot, it's like we're the polar opposites of Wrestlecrap. We could have been a sitcom on TGIF. Two wacky young roommates, one is a left leaning pot smoking enthusiast of extreme wrestling and RVD and the other is vitamins, staying in school and saying his prayers type of guy. We could have like a wacky foreign neighbor who's always trying to do get rich quick schemes on our show. It'd be off the chain. Don't get me wrong, I love the original ECW. I'm a huge fan of most of the guys from there, but I much preferred Terry Funk, Shane Douglas, Raven and Dreamer in their storytelling matches. I'm also a fan of wild spotfests and have several FMW tapes but I just feel that to be in the main event, guys need that extra bit of drama and pacing in their matches.
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Post by "Handsome" Whitey Fats on Aug 12, 2008 12:33:03 GMT -5
RVD has been carried in every good match he has ever had, and by good i mean watchable. The only matches truly good or great he has had was with Jerry Lynn, who almost killed himself carrying that sack of crap
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hollywood
King Koopa
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Post by hollywood on Aug 12, 2008 12:40:24 GMT -5
RVD has been carried in every good match he has ever had, and by good i mean watchable. The only matches truly good or great he has had was with Jerry Lynn, who almost killed himself carrying that sack of crap I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Post by King Boo on Aug 12, 2008 14:21:22 GMT -5
So I see a lot of people decided to go into their same old standard replies that they've been saying for years without actually reading my responses to those criticisms. Also after reading some of the replies in this thread, I have to wonder what wrestling some people are watching in this thread or where this hatred is coming from. I'm starting to think that people unconsciously hate RVD and ECW because they're too young or they fear the awesomeness. But I'm still waiting for valid RVD criticism. I'm 25 and I assure you, my age has nothing to do with why I don't enjoy RVD. And I don't hate old ECW. I've seen plenty of RVD matches and promos and they've never really entertained me. It's cool if you enjoy them/him, but not everyone shares your sentiment, regardless of age. Running down what you said by points: //[wah] RVD got busted for pot while he was WWE World Champion[/wah]// I personally don't care what RVD chooses to do in his personal life, but the fact of the matter is that he finally gets his chance to shine and he goes and screws up on this magnitude. He should have acted a little wiser and tried to prove himself. //[cry]RVD misses spots all the time[/cry] So you're telling me you'd rather watch a match where every spot is done perfectly. Where the wrestlers know what they're doing so well that they don't exert any effort or try anything new.// Messing up once in a while is fine but you reach a certain threshold and it just becomes sloppy. You can spin it as tho it's more exciting this way, but in reality it's just messier and more dangerous. And to imply that just because a wrestler actually hits his moves 99% of the time means he's not exerting effort is crazy. It takes more effort to execute the move correctly than it does to just go out there and let the chips fall where they may. //[moan]RVD is a boring promo guy[/moan]// If you're entertained, more power to you. I don't dig his style and that's my right just as much as it's your right to enjoy him. I understand it can be frustrating hearing people voice their dislike over someone you enjoy so thoroughly, but you're not gonna change their opinions, just like they haven't changed yours. Especially going about it by assuming people who don't agree with you are young, whiny or "afraid of his awesomeness."
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Post by tap on Aug 12, 2008 14:32:46 GMT -5
Rob was insanely over in 2001 when he showed up on WWF TV, and that he DIDN'T get a decent one-on-one shot at Austin is a crime (Raven makes this point on one of his shoots). I felt that winning the IC title at WM18 was going to be the launch of RVD into the main event and *I feel* that Triple H, in the "dark years" of Raw was part of the reason why he didn't get the strap. Mind you, it seemed that after 2002, he didn't really try to recapture the energy that got him over in the first place. So when his title win in 2006 came about, it was too little too late for me. Although, I did find a lot of the discussion around his pot bust in 2006 became ridiculous, with people calling for him to be fired absurd. He was stripped of both titles, and that for me sufficed. I thought he would have made it back to ECW champ again in 2007 (since it's not a high profile title like the other 2 main titles) but by then you could tell he was really disgruntled.
And to be fair, yeah, if you don't feel like you're getting a push, why try harder if you're going to be knocked down a couple of pegs further? BUT, it goes both ways. If you don't show to management "hey, I want the ball, give it to me, and I'll run with it" then they're not going to put that trust into you. Or, given your arrest, why should they put that trust in you again? To speak on RVD from late 2002 until his return in 2006 (yeah, he was out on injury for awhile, so I can't blame him for that).
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