Let's talk about Rob Van Dam

[MM is on a Drunken Patera Rant]

Alright here we go, I've been reading the wrestlecrap forums for almost three or four years now (since the original One Night Stand) and in that time I've seen a lot of people down on Rob Van Dam as a wrestler, almost to the point of discrediting him completely. People call him a flippy kicky thing or something like that. And you know what? This has been irritating me for awhile. It's been irritating me for so long that it's finally spilled over into me making a thread about how great Rob Van Dam is. So tuck yourself in because I'm about to spill some truth.

Rob Van Dam in my opinion is a top five wrestler in history. I know most of you will disagree but Rob Van Dam was one of the most electrifying, innovative, and athletically gifted freaks of nature to ever enter professional wrestling. The man carried ECW on his back for nearly three years while it's top players came and went like cockroaches in a kitchen. The man made Jerry Lynn who had been on the indy circuit over a decade before and has become a nobody once again since. Rob Van Dam made the original ECW Television Title more important than the World Heavyweight Title for almost two years. I don't know much about his WWE run (and I'm sure that's where most of his criticism comes from) but having watched his matches on YouTube from WWE, he's just as good in the WWE style. Also the man was a WWE World Champion.

So to do this right I'll answer the criticisms of Rob Van Dam I can think of.

[wah] RVD got busted for pot while he was WWE World Champion[/wah]

So what? I can't realistically answer this without going into a lengthy and pointless debate on the merits of outlawing harmless plants. But so what? This doesn't take a damn thing away from RVD as a wrestler or entertainer. I don't want to get into a pot debate but you know what I just said is true.

[wah] RVD is kick floppy guy[/wah]

It is true that the majority of Rob Van Dam's style comes from strikes but think about it. Rob Van Dam is a kick boxer. Kick Boxers usually kick in fights... unless I've been misled all my life. Of course Rob Van Dam is going to kick and innovate ways use his legs on his opponents that's what a kick boxer would do. Also the whole flippy label is stupid. Tell me you don't mark out for aerial hardcore stuff. Tell me you don't think that the lucha extreme style is cool. Rob Van Dam takes that to a whole new level doing some of the craziest crap I've ever seen in wrestling. RVD was so ridiculously explosive and athletic that I would give him the title of the most electrifying wrestler to watch wrestle. The smurfing guy would jump across the entire ring, he would dive over the top rope into the third row, watch the first time he ever did the Van Terminator. He's so ridiculously awesome at what he does in the ring. Also, kayfabe wise it fits with his shoot fighter style.

[cry]RVD misses spots all the time[/cry]

So you're telling me you'd rather watch a match where every spot is done perfectly. Where the wrestlers know what they're doing so well that they don't exert any effort or try anything new. Just bland boring perfect wrestling with no chance of anything spontaneous happening or anyone smurfing up. Well you must enjoy bland boring crapty wrestling and enjoy a lot the current WWE product then. Personally I'd rather watch someone who is pushing themselves so hard in the ring and someone who's thinking in the ring than bland boring perfect wrestling. When you're pushing yourself to the physical limits and doing insane acrobatic type crap, I'd imagine you'll smurf up once in awhile due to exhaustion or the heat of the moment or just being a little too baked. Speaking of which to go backwards for a second and leading into my next thought. I'd much prefer my wrestlers smoke pot than not, because if they're smoking pot they're going to be thinking outside of the box and coming up with new crap. Which leads me to my second point, RVD created a lot of new moves. The Van Terminator was the most ridiculous thing anyone had ever seen before when RVD did for the first time 2000. He introduced some of the coolest stuff I've seen in a ring. Of course when you first try new innovative crap that you just dreamed and no one's ever seen before, sometimes you smurf up. Once again, I'd rather see the smurf ups than bland boring perfect wrestling.

[moan]RVD is a boring promo guy[/moan]

Okay I'll concede this one. RVD couldn't hold the crowd in the palm of his hand like the Rock of Hulk Hogan or Mick Foley. And he didn't give the best promos, especially in WWE. And I think this is where a lot of the hatred comes from. And I can understand that. It's a matter of taste. I personally would rather watch wrestlers who interesting characters and put on incredible matches and do crap I've never seen, but that's me. Some people like guys who just talk on the mic, and I can understand that. I certainly get a little excited whenever whenever I go to bingo halls. But I still think RVD is one charismatic mothersmurfer. He plays a stoner so to me his promos are hilarious because I know what it is to be a stoner, so there's some commonality. However, RVD does some pretty smurfing hilarious and spot on impressions. I like watching him but he's not the best promo guy or talker and I'll admit that.

I addressed the criticisms I could think of. I'll end by saying once again RVD is in my top five wrestlers ever. RVD was the best in-ring performer of the 90s (although I wouldn't want to argue RVD or Sabu) and RVD deserves some respect damnit.

Also, RVD worked his way up in WWE as nobody extreme indy guy (wrestling crapty matches for the Hardcore Belt) and after six or seven years he worked his way up in that company to become the World Champ. Also you never hear anyone say anything bad about Rob Van Dam, everyone is cool with him. Also it was his idea for the original One Night Stand. Vince thought so much of RVD that he gave him a live mic at the PPV. This is the same guy who nearly a decade before got a live mic at ECW's first PPV and just trashed the company and fans in his shoot comments...

[Andrew is Good]

RVD has always been one of my favourites, there's just something about him that is special.

To some of your points though. I wanted WWE to fire him for being busted for pot, the reason being I wanted the wellness policy to mean a lot, and while I disagree with pot being illegal, it still said he's subject to termination. However, over the years it's been found out that some guys who failed the drug tests a few times didn't get fired, so yeah, in hindsight I don't really believe that now.

RVD doing too many kicks is the same as Nigel doing too many lariets. If it works, why stop?

As far as missing spots, it's important to remember that spots aren't messed up unless the wrestlers make them messed up. So if RVD blows a spot, and some guy takes advantage, then maybe it was wear and tear from the match. However, it's important to realize that a lot of the time less is more, and sometimes those spots may not have been needed in the first place.

I actually think RVD is an underrated promo guy, and I think his stoner type character didn't give him the opportunity to be serious. His One Night Stand promo proved he really could talk.

For me, the biggest problem with RVD is it seems it's more important for him to get his shit in then to get the match over, and at times he'll attempt to put 10 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag. I think that's what kept him from being Champion for awhile, though it really shouldn't have mattered because he was the most over guy in the company, he should have been champion.

[pegasuswarrior]

I'll read the original post in its entirety later, but from 97-2000, I had RVD as the greatest wrestler in the world.

The most frustrating thing ever was seeing the adjustment to "safe style" ruin what had made him so great, both in the high flying sense and in the underrated technical sense. And the BEST thing of all was the guy told a story each and every time with his talent. Again, screw safe style and how it forced him to change. Nevertheless, I'd rather see this man wrestle in the WWE safe style than almost any man I've ever seen in the same predicament (although Benoit was the best at what he did in that environment).

[PapaClydeCakes]

RVD was my fav back in ECW. His matches with sabu and lynn was amazing and i think he could carry just about anyone in a match. Then WWE got ahold of him watered him down but still was great at first. But then if you notice he become almost as bad as cena doing only maybe 4 moves. i mean wish he would come back and battle aj styles thats a dream match of mine.

[kingoftheindies]

if you listen to RVD, and most wrestlers that know him, they all say he really hated working safe style cause it took away a lot of what he could and couldn't do. RVD was always a lot better than just a flippy guy, and he's a very good promo guy (listen to him shoot on Heyman for him being a replacement for Candido at Barely Legal)

It was really obvious that when he got moved to SD he was really unmotivated. After he feuded with Kane right after he unmasked, he was thrown into a team with Booker, and then moved to SD so he could shine. Instead, he was thrown into a team with Rey, and then got hurt. When he moved to Raw after coming back from the knee injury, he looked very good. Hell, I remember his match with from the ECW vs. WWE special; he was doing things he hadn't done in the WWE. He still looked good after his suspension, but when it became clear ECW was being treated as a joke, he stopped caring.

I think if you actually have RVD doing something a bit productive, he'll work his ass off. If you have him just doing the same thing over and over (IC title, random tag titles) he'll slack.

[Bravo Echo November]

No matter what they say, RVD will always be one of my all time favorites.

[eDemento2099]

Aug 11, 2008 21:54:18 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

if you listen to RVD, and most wrestlers that know him, they all say he really hated working safe style cause it took away a lot of what he could and couldn't do.

Wouldn't surprise me. WWE killed off his reputation by watering him down. He was one of the most exciting wrestlers to watch when he wrestled in ECW. His series of matches against Jerry Lynn is legendary.

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

The definition of "overrated". A bunch of kicks, shitty forearms, and ONE cool move(The five star frog splash) and ridiculous overselling that any other wrestler would be crucified for. Yeah, I really don't see how the cat is as well reputed as he is.

[Albino Heat]

I honestly don't know if RVD has done 1 new move since he showed up at Invasion. He wrestles the exact same match every time, and after 5 years, I got kinda bored. "Safe Style" or not, the guy just doesn't seem like he tries.

[Joekishi]

I just thought them chanting "same old shit" at Cena, while RVD goes through the motions was LULZ

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

Aug 12, 2008 0:29:14 GMT -5 Joekishi said:

I just thought them chanting "same old crap" at Cena, while RVD goes through the motions was LULZ

Even as a guy who mildly dislikes Cena, I thought the irony of that was staggering.

[kretchpoof]

I would love to get into a pointless debate about Van Dam getting busted for pot. He was the WWE champ, the top wrestler in the company, the face of the company, and he was stupid enough to smoke pot, drive (I think Sabu was driving, still, stupid), and get busted. You just don't do that if you're the top guy in the company. And I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home, but what possesses someone to take drugs, or drink alcohol, and go out driving and possibly endanger people's lives? Smoke, do whatever you want, but just stay home, and pop in a flick. Or, if you're out somewhere, grab a cab. It's not that complicated.

Of course, someone will respond with, "Pot is super-great, and I go out after smoking and pop wheelies on my motorcyle at 120 mph. What's the problem?"

[eDemento2099]

Aug 11, 2008 23:02:40 GMT -5 Spankymac is sick of the swiss said:

The definition of "overrated". A bunch of kicks, crapty forearms, and ONE cool move(The five star frog splash) and ridiculous overselling that any other wrestler would be crucified for. Yeah, I really don't see how the cat is as well reputed as he is.

Show me another wrestler who can sell a piledriver as well as RVD sold Tommy Dreamer's piledriver (he launched himself 6 feet in the air upon hitting the canvas).

[Lance Uppercut]

I like RVD, but I just have to laugh anytime anyone says it's WWe's fault for his matches not being exciting.

Of course RVD's style is not suited for matches where he can't jump out of hte ring and brawl for 2 minutes, launch himself into the audience, and do a whoel bunch of complicated maneuvers that involve tables, chairs, and ladders. In other words, in a normal everyday, non-hardcore match.

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

Aug 12, 2008 1:17:23 GMT -5 eDemento2099 said:

Aug 11, 2008 23:02:40 GMT -5 Spankymac is sick of the swiss said:

The definition of "overrated". A bunch of kicks, crapty forearms, and ONE cool move(The five star frog splash) and ridiculous overselling that any other wrestler would be crucified for. Yeah, I really don't see how the cat is as well reputed as he is.

Show me another wrestler who can sell a piledriver as well as RVD sold Tommy Dreamer's piledriver (he launched himself 6 feet in the air upon hitting the canvas).

Overselling is not GOOD selling. No one before or since has ever done what RVD did. He's the only one to EVER sell the piledriver like that. Not even the most ridiculously overselling spot-monkies do crap like that. Is it visually impressive? Yeah, sure, but it makes no sense for a guy to shoot up like that.

[eDemento2099]

Aug 12, 2008 1:22:29 GMT -5 Lance Uppercut said:

I like RVD, but I just have to laugh anytime anyone says it's WWe's fault for his matches not being exciting.

Of course RVD's style is not suited for matches where he can't jump out of hte ring and brawl for 2 minutes, launch himself into the audience, and do a whoel bunch of complicated maneuvers that involve tables, chairs, and ladders. In other words, in a normal everyday, non-hardcore match.

It is WWE's fault: If they were serious about keeping ECW "extreme" instead of making a total mockery out of it, that's the sort of wrestling they'd promote in (WW)ECW. RVD would perfectly fit into that sort of an environment.

[thesam07]

I've always enjoyed RVD, one of my favourite matches was the one he had with Jeff Hardy at Invasion 2001. And last year I met the man personally, and he was one of the nicest people I have ever met.

[King Fox -1017 Bricksquad]

Aug 11, 2008 23:02:40 GMT -5 Spankymac is sick of the swiss said:

The definition of "overrated". A bunch of kicks, crapty forearms, and ONE cool move(The five star frog splash) and ridiculous overselling that any other wrestler would be crucified for. Yeah, I really don't see how the cat is as well reputed as he is.

Amen! I like him as a person, but as a wrestler he doesn't do it for me.

[bigdaddyfive]

To me, RVD will always be right up there in my lists of favourite wrestlers.

Personal opinion, but I thought he should never have been stripped of the WWE / ECW titles just for smoking a bit of weed.

After all, JBL gave a Nazi salute in a country where it is illegal and was given the WWE title a few days later. Not to mention the countless other wrestlers who've held onto their spots / runs despite DUIs / Steroid abuse etc in the past.

Like I said, a personal gripe but it makes me think that the company had a lot less time for RVD than others.

Still, at least he was champ....

[strykerdarksilence]

As champion he was the standard bearer for the company, and as such is supposed to be a role model and one who follows the rules. Whether the rule is right or wrong, he broke it and deserved to be stripped, and not trusted with the mantle again.

I don't like to see boring workers, but I do like clean, crisp workers who hit their moves reguarly and put on far more consistent matches.

RVD to me is the epitomy of midcarder, tv main event occasionally, guy.