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Post by MysteryPartner on Aug 29, 2008 13:24:05 GMT -5
HHH and Jarrett have both long paid their dues.
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comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by comahan on Aug 29, 2008 14:02:33 GMT -5
i watched about the first 25 minutes. kongs match was poor, and ODB's run in was terrible. ive thrown more realistic punches when messing around with my 7 year old nephew. and we've heard her "im badder than kong.." promo a hundred smurfing times. the jarret handjob..i mean video package.. was laughable, as well. he is not a returning mega star, he is not on the level of hogan, austin, or even sting, as that promo would seem to want us to think. and are AJ and angle STILL feuding? and over gold medals now? it almost seems like two people who have forgotten what they got mad at eachother about in the first place, yet now just cant let it go. the x division tag match seemed poorly choreographed and sloppy at times, as well. i try with TNA, maybe its just not for me. you watched the first 25 minutes, but saw the Jarrett promo that was in the 2nd hour? And arent they SUPPOSED to try and make Jarrett, and anyone else for that matter, look like megastars? Theyre getting blame for hyping their wrestlers now? In the TNA landscape, Jarrett is just as important and probably more important than anyone whos been there. Why not hype him up? Just because you dont like him doesnt make the company stupid for trying to make him look good.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Aug 29, 2008 16:21:31 GMT -5
Maybe I caught them on an off-night or something. I dunno. It certainly felt like watching an episode of RAW, though. A low-rent version of RAW, but still like watching RAW. So if mimicking the big dogs is what they're going for, they're doing it in spades.
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comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by comahan on Aug 29, 2008 16:23:48 GMT -5
I dont really understand that. I watch and enjoy both, and dont think they feel the same at all.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Aug 29, 2008 16:27:27 GMT -5
I dont really understand that. I watch and enjoy both, and dont think they feel the same at all. Squash Match Backstage segment Commercial Backstage segment Short Match Backstage Segment Commercial Horrendous Sketch Comedy Segment Commercial And so on... I'd say that pretty much mirrors your typical WWE show to the letter.
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comahan
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Post by comahan on Aug 29, 2008 16:46:20 GMT -5
I dont really understand that. I watch and enjoy both, and dont think they feel the same at all. Squash Match Backstage segment Commercial Backstage segment Short Match Backstage Segment Commercial Horrendous Sketch Comedy Segment Commercial And so on... I'd say that pretty much mirrors your typical WWE show to the letter. Which is what youre going to get from any wrestling program thats trying to appeal to the masses. I thought you meant like, actually feel of the show and all that, not segment similarities. And both companies do in fact put on solid length, solid quality matches each week, contrary to popular belief. They arent going to be 45 minute 4 star matches, but theyll be fine. Angle/Nash was 15 minutes and the Knockout tag was 10 mins last night. I realize you dont want to see Nash wrestle, but you happened to tune in for that one show per 6-8 weeks that he happens to do so.
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domrep
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Post by domrep on Aug 29, 2008 17:20:42 GMT -5
I must be the only one who thought Sting's promo was not a heel promo. He didn't insult the fans or anyone for that matter. He told the truth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2008 17:46:15 GMT -5
I watched Impact too:
Kong vs. Bolt (aka Josie): As far as squashes go, this one was pretty damn good. The opponent actually got some good defense in and I wouldn't mind seeing more of her. The ODB run-in and attacking Kong really showed a push for ODB as she actually got the advantage over Kong.
Styles interview was okay - he's much better on the mic when he has someone to play off rather than the traditional promo.
Bashir & Williams vs. Creed & Lethal: Another great X-Division match - the whole Division has been coming back strong and really entertaining for me and these four are a great example of why. That plus Sonjay still makes for a great roster on their part. I'd still like to see Khan in some Knockouts matches to see how'd she fair.
ODB Interview: She is like the female Ultimate Warrior sometimes.
Karen's Angle w/Abyss: I couldn't watch this it was so bad. The full on transformation to Mankind has happened and it is terrible. Karen Angle should get out of anything TNA-related involving a microphone. Just a terrible segment.
Beautiful People w/Kip Segment: Probably one my favorite heel tag teams right now (male or female). I've got to say I still think TNA really likes finding places for people they should have let go. They must not have the heart to let anyone go, but Kip makes a much better valet than he did anything else.
Angle and Angle's cousin Frank: Dear Frank Trigg. I don't think you are cut out for actually being a part of a story line. Please kill Don West and take his spot and the commentary station. Sincerly, Personman01
Rave vs. Curry Man: My only complaint with this match is that I wish it would have gone longer. These two have rarely crossed paths on TNA, but this match makes me think they could put on some great matches with a little more time. Followed by a Prince Justice Brotherhood vs. Rock n' Rave matchup for the PPV. Which is strange, but intriguing nonetheless.
Traci Brooks becomes Knockout Commish: Honestly, it makes a lot of sense and Brooks is the best person for the job since she's decent on the mic and so-so in the ring. So, I'm pleasantly surprised by this occurrence. Almost too clever for this show.
Booker T Stuff: FFW
Nash vs. Angle: This match wasn't anything to speak of to me, but the confrontation between Joe and Nash at the commentary table was terrific. Best acting Joe has ever done. I bet Nash put a little extra English on that head smack to get Joe riled up.
Jeff Jarrett Hype Video: Actually a tasteful mix of letting new viewers know who Jarrett is to TNA and also gives a quasi-touching account of why he's been gone and possibly where he's going.
Beautiful People v. Roxxi Wilde: I'll never stop loving Nikki Roxx's in ring stuff. Even her shoving Love halfway across the ring was beyond great for me. The match was good and the Beautiful People have found a great dynamic of letting Love to the hard hitting and letting Sky do some of the underhanded stuff. Really plays up their strengths and hides their weaknesses. Apparently TNA believes that pairing boring male wrestlers with exciting female wrestlers will create some kind of cool by association effect, hence Rhyno and Kip being involved.
Sting and AJ: Pretty much the best angle TNA has come up with in a while for the main event scene - which is usually boring. Sting and AJ's back and forth was double live gonzo, intensity in tent city, live at Budhokon. The Billy the Kid trick by Sting was a nice touch, followed by JJ's music. I'm interested to see if TNA screws this up or builds upon the good work done so far.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Aug 29, 2008 18:33:21 GMT -5
Squash Match Backstage segment Commercial Backstage segment Short Match Backstage Segment Commercial Horrendous Sketch Comedy Segment Commercial And so on... I'd say that pretty much mirrors your typical WWE show to the letter. Which is what youre going to get from any wrestling program thats trying to appeal to the masses. I thought you meant like, actually feel of the show and all that, not segment similarities. And both companies do in fact put on solid length, solid quality matches each week, contrary to popular belief. They arent going to be 45 minute 4 star matches, but theyll be fine. Angle/Nash was 15 minutes and the Knockout tag was 10 mins last night. I realize you dont want to see Nash wrestle, but you happened to tune in for that one show per 6-8 weeks that he happens to do so. However, you want to justify it, it's still copying the same tired formula that developed over 10 years ago. The whole thing comes across as uninspired and weak. It's no wonder so many analysts, commentators, etc. commonly mistake Impact for another WWE show, it's exactly the same. I'm not suggesting they start airing 45 minutes matches (have you ever sat through a match that long? it's brutal). And I'm not suggesting TNA try to mimic ROH. I'm just saying they do nothing to differentiate themselves. Be unique. Offer something, some program, some aspect, some angle, just SOMETHINg special and all their own. They follow the same booking and program strategies as WWE, just on a smaller scale. Hence, they are a second-rate WWE show in my eyes and the majority of eyes everywhere.
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Post by thatguybayne on Aug 30, 2008 7:01:06 GMT -5
Sorry, but Bruce Campbell > TNA. Always. As much as I love TNA I can't argue with that. He's just too awesome.
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chairshotshurthead
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Post by chairshotshurthead on Aug 30, 2008 20:48:35 GMT -5
The fans choose the faces and heels, not the booking. Apparently you misunderstand the concept of booking a feud.
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Post by New Age Outlaw on Aug 30, 2008 21:09:29 GMT -5
Jarrett was a multiple time I.C. champion at a time when the WWE was stacked and the I.C. title was the second most prestigious title in the company. I'd say that's equal to holding the lesser of the two 'world' titles in today's WWE. He's also a former WCW champion. I'd say there's a good chance he could be a main eventer in the WWE, and there's no question he's a legit main eventer in a second-tier company like TNA. I'd also say those arguing against him are blinded by their own personal bias against the man.
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chairshotshurthead
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Post by chairshotshurthead on Aug 30, 2008 21:18:50 GMT -5
Just because he got pushed as an upper-tier guy doesn't mean he was one. Hell, the guy was in the Four Horsemen at one stage, yet nobody associates him with the Four Horsemen. f***, until I watched the DVD I never even knew he was in the f***ing stable.
IMO, here's the one defining thing that proves that Jeff Jarret was never and probably will never be a legitimate main eventer...
As a general rule, main eventers draw.
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comahan
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Post by comahan on Aug 30, 2008 21:22:14 GMT -5
The fans choose the faces and heels, not the booking. Apparently you misunderstand the concept of booking a feud. I was talking about this one. As in, the whole civil war schtick thats being talked about on the forum now. Both sides make sense, neither are true faces or heels, the fans choose who they want to cheer for.
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domrep
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Post by domrep on Aug 30, 2008 21:24:24 GMT -5
^ Which I have no problem with b/c fans choose sides. Just look at Cena vs. Batista, each have their own fans, and look at the crowd reaction for their match. I just hope TNA doesn't book it based on crowd reactions. Sting's a legend in wrestling. No matter how hard you try, you can't boo him. Likewise, AJ has his fans as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2008 22:34:35 GMT -5
Why do people even give a crap about Heels and Faces? People cheer for who they want to anyway.
Does everything in wrestling have to be as simplistic as Superman vs Lex Luther for you to follow?
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chairshotshurthead
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Post by chairshotshurthead on Aug 30, 2008 22:52:33 GMT -5
Why do people even give a crap about Heels and Faces? People cheer for who they want to anyway. Does everything in wrestling have to be as simplistic as Superman vs Lex Luther for you to follow? Well, that's kinda the smurfin' POINT of wrestling. That's kinda the smurfin' REASON why they HAVE heels and faces to begin with, so the matches actually have some smurfin' HEAT because you have someone to GET BEHIND. Because you have a reason to CARE. Wrestling IS Superman vs. Lex Luthor. It's an over-the-top morality play between two sides who are capable of things ordinary people aren't. One side uses those abilities for 'good', the other for 'evil'. Its the kind of basic conflict storytelling that has been around and worked since, oh I don't know, the DAWN OF smurfING MAN! This isn't Bret Hart/Steve Austin with that whole shades of grey deal that signaled the changing climate of wrestling. This is just a bunch of people having no idea what the smurf they're doing, and more than likely having the feud fail miserably because of it. If you wanna argue 'well why can't they do something new and different?', well then maybe there's a reason for it: if they can't master simple storytelling that has worked forever, if they can't do things in black and white, what chance do they have doing shades of grey? If you don't have faces and heels, you don't have a reason to care. It's all well and good to say 'well, the fans are gonna cheer whoever they want anyway', but in practice it doesn't really work when 1. The feud is DESIGNED to put one side over the other. And 2. When you don't make the lines clear, it's just a bunch of chaotic crap happening for no smurfin' reason. smurf, it's the reason this angle failed 11 YEARS AGO because you gave the people no reason to hate one side over the other, and when they did try to establish that hate, they did so in such an ass-backwards, incompetent smurfing way that it completely destroyed an semblance of potential the angle ever had. That's my 2 cents anyway. Rant over.
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Post by doctorhillbilly on Aug 30, 2008 22:54:32 GMT -5
Why do people even give a crap about Heels and Faces? People cheer for who they want to anyway. Does everything in wrestling have to be as simplistic as Superman vs Lex Luther for you to follow? I don't think it's that as much as what motivates people to care about fueds to the point of paying ppv money to see them resolved. If they're booking Sting and the "old guys" to be heels, the only people that will mark live on the internet. Now if they book JJ to job nonstop, while giving a "I've been so bad for the company/I've never been a top guy" promo once a week then some of the asshats on here may mark so hard that their heads explode. Oh God book that! Please! At least until the basements are clear again.
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Post by slasher911 on Aug 30, 2008 23:52:32 GMT -5
EDIT: And, just for the record, I think the notion that people aren't allowed to have opinions about certain wrestlers or companies simply because they "haven't worked in the business" is bullcrap. Yeah, that's actually the worst logic I've ever encountered online. I've never shot a 3-pointer in the NBA in my entire life, but that doesn't mean I can't point out that Shaq couldn't drain one if his life depended on it. In fact, you could say their opinion is the most important. They're the ones PAYING to watch the product. If anyone's opinions mattered, it'd be theirs.
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comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by comahan on Aug 31, 2008 0:01:13 GMT -5
EDIT: And, just for the record, I think the notion that people aren't allowed to have opinions about certain wrestlers or companies simply because they "haven't worked in the business" is bullcrap. Yeah, that's actually the worst logic I've ever encountered online. I've never shot a 3-pointer in the NBA in my entire life, but that doesn't mean I can't point out that Shaq couldn't drain one if his life depended on it. In fact, you could say their opinion is the most important. They're the ones PAYING to watch the product. If anyone's opinions mattered, it'd be theirs. Thats a lie! He makes em when he wants to! Just ask him.
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