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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on Aug 31, 2008 0:54:45 GMT -5
Kong vs. Bolt (aka Josie): As far as squashes go, this one was pretty damn good. The opponent actually got some good defense in and I wouldn't mind seeing more of her. The ODB run-in and attacking Kong really showed a push for ODB as she actually got the advantage over Kong. That was Josie? Damn, I'm slipping... I didn't even recognize her. Too bad she didn't have her BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY ROCKIN EVERYWHERE theme, cause then I would have.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2008 8:20:55 GMT -5
Why do people even give a crap about Heels and Faces? People cheer for who they want to anyway. Does everything in wrestling have to be as simplistic as Superman vs Lex Luther for you to follow? Well, that's kinda the smurfin' POINT of wrestling. That's kinda the smurfin' REASON why they HAVE heels and faces to begin with, so the matches actually have some smurfin' HEAT because you have someone to GET BEHIND. Because you have a reason to CARE. Wrestling IS Superman vs. Lex Luthor. It's an over-the-top morality play between two sides who are capable of things ordinary people aren't. One side uses those abilities for 'good', the other for 'evil'. Its the kind of basic conflict storytelling that has been around and worked since, oh I don't know, the DAWN OF smurfING MAN! This isn't Bret Hart/Steve Austin with that whole shades of grey deal that signaled the changing climate of wrestling. This is just a bunch of people having no idea what the smurf they're doing, and more than likely having the feud fail miserably because of it. If you wanna argue 'well why can't they do something new and different?', well then maybe there's a reason for it: if they can't master simple storytelling that has worked forever, if they can't do things in black and white, what chance do they have doing shades of grey? If you don't have faces and heels, you don't have a reason to care. It's all well and good to say 'well, the fans are gonna cheer whoever they want anyway', but in practice it doesn't really work when 1. The feud is DESIGNED to put one side over the other. And 2. When you don't make the lines clear, it's just a bunch of chaotic crap happening for no smurfin' reason. smurf, it's the reason this angle failed 11 YEARS AGO because you gave the people no reason to hate one side over the other, and when they did try to establish that hate, they did so in such an ass-backwards, incompetent smurfing way that it completely destroyed an semblance of potential the angle ever had. That's my 2 cents anyway. Rant over. The NWO, Hart Foundation and John Cena all got cheered half the time and booed half the time. They're 3 of the hottest acts of all time. The Patriotic Hulk Hogan vs Evil Foreigner formula worked back in the day, but societies changed. Look at how much darker and edgier the Batman movies are today, than in the 80s/90s. Look at all the movies where the gangsters are good guys and the cops are bad guys. And basically the Civil War angle in TNA has just started. We don't know who's going to be on which side and which group is supposed to be the faces or heels. Give it, i don't know.... a week.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Aug 31, 2008 13:56:20 GMT -5
Well, that's kinda the smurfin' POINT of wrestling. That's kinda the smurfin' REASON why they HAVE heels and faces to begin with, so the matches actually have some smurfin' HEAT because you have someone to GET BEHIND. Because you have a reason to CARE. Wrestling IS Superman vs. Lex Luthor. It's an over-the-top morality play between two sides who are capable of things ordinary people aren't. One side uses those abilities for 'good', the other for 'evil'. Its the kind of basic conflict storytelling that has been around and worked since, oh I don't know, the DAWN OF smurfING MAN! This isn't Bret Hart/Steve Austin with that whole shades of grey deal that signaled the changing climate of wrestling. This is just a bunch of people having no idea what the smurf they're doing, and more than likely having the feud fail miserably because of it. If you wanna argue 'well why can't they do something new and different?', well then maybe there's a reason for it: if they can't master simple storytelling that has worked forever, if they can't do things in black and white, what chance do they have doing shades of grey? If you don't have faces and heels, you don't have a reason to care. It's all well and good to say 'well, the fans are gonna cheer whoever they want anyway', but in practice it doesn't really work when 1. The feud is DESIGNED to put one side over the other. And 2. When you don't make the lines clear, it's just a bunch of chaotic crap happening for no smurfin' reason. smurf, it's the reason this angle failed 11 YEARS AGO because you gave the people no reason to hate one side over the other, and when they did try to establish that hate, they did so in such an ass-backwards, incompetent smurfing way that it completely destroyed an semblance of potential the angle ever had. That's my 2 cents anyway. Rant over. The NWO, Hart Foundation and John Cena all got cheered half the time and booed half the time. They're 3 of the hottest acts of all time. The Patriotic Hulk Hogan vs Evil Foreigner formula worked back in the day, but societies changed. Look at how much darker and edgier the Batman movies are today, than in the 80s/90s. Look at all the movies where the gangsters are good guys and the cops are bad guys. And basically the Civil War angle in TNA has just started. We don't know who's going to be on which side and which group is supposed to be the faces or heels. Give it, i don't know.... a week. I'd just like to point out that, while people might've still cheered for the nWo and the Hart Foundation, they were still CLEARLY the heels of their feuds. They did some pretty shitty things to the faces during their rivalries, even if the faces weren't exactly squeaky clean either. Bottom line, they were definitely bad guys. And the people that cheered them acknowledged that.
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chairshotshurthead
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Post by chairshotshurthead on Aug 31, 2008 18:14:30 GMT -5
The NWO, Hart Foundation and John Cena all got cheered half the time and booed half the time. They're 3 of the hottest acts of all time. The Patriotic Hulk Hogan vs Evil Foreigner formula worked back in the day, but societies changed. Look at how much darker and edgier the Batman movies are today, than in the 80s/90s. Look at all the movies where the gangsters are good guys and the cops are bad guys. And basically the Civil War angle in TNA has just started. We don't know who's going to be on which side and which group is supposed to be the faces or heels. Give it, i don't know.... a week. I'd just like to point out that, while people might've still cheered for the nWo and the Hart Foundation, they were still CLEARLY the heels of their feuds. They did some pretty crapty things to the faces during their rivalries, even if the faces weren't exactly squeaky clean either. Bottom line, they were definitely bad guys. And the people that cheered them acknowledged that. Thank you.
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Dave at the Movies
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Sept 1, 2008 10:53:52 GMT -5
I actually really really enjoyed Impact this week. Best one I they have had in weeks.
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Post by capnsteve on Sept 2, 2008 0:42:49 GMT -5
What on Earth makes you think Sting is supposed to be a heel? AJ was the one about to take a swing at him.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Sept 2, 2008 8:08:05 GMT -5
What on Earth makes you think Sting is supposed to be a heel? AJ was the one about to take a swing at him. He interfered in Joe's match with Booker T, typically a heelish move. And, in his promo, he berated TNA's popular faces--AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, another typically heelish move. In fact, everything about his promo was a perfect heel promo, he believed he was right even though his methods suggest otherwise. He handed AJ Style a bat and told him to attack him from behind, kinda playing the role of the tempter. Hell, the whole thing played out like your typical heel-turn scenario. A face "unexpectedly" turns heel and attacks a top babyface at the end of a PPV, then comes out to explain his actions in a promo in the following weeks. (Future of pro wrestling, indeed...)
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Post by GaTechGrad on Sept 2, 2008 10:54:34 GMT -5
Sorry, but Bruce Campbell > TNA. Always. As much as I love TNA I can't argue with that. He's just too awesome. If you're talking Evil Dead, Army of Darkness, or Jack of All Trades then I would agree with you. However, I couldn't ever "get into" Burn Notice. There was only like 5 minutes of Bruce Campbell in the show I watched... and he was fat, old, and didn't have the great one liners like he did in the past.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Sept 2, 2008 10:58:42 GMT -5
As much as I love TNA I can't argue with that. He's just too awesome. If you're talking Evil Dead, Army of Darkness, or Jack of All Trades then I would agree with you. However, I couldn't ever "get into" Burn Notice. There was only like 5 minutes of Bruce Campbell in the show I watched... and he was fat, old, and didn't have the great one liners like he did in the past. Are you kidding? He's got some of the greatest one-liners ever in that show? Hell, it opens with "Ah, you know spies...buncha bitchy little girls!" In every scene, he's almost always drinking some kind of alcohol and talking about women. Plus, every other character is 12 shades of awesome a piece! Actually, in all seriousness, to each his own. But I still contend that the following inequality is true: Bruce Campbell + Burn Notice > TNA
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Post by George Harrison on Sept 2, 2008 18:11:15 GMT -5
I dont really understand that. I watch and enjoy both, and dont think they feel the same at all. Squash Match Backstage segment Commercial Backstage segment Short Match Backstage Segment Commercial Horrendous Sketch Comedy Segment Commercial And so on... I'd say that pretty much mirrors your typical WWE show to the letter. You have just explained American wrestling for the last 15 years. To me, it's like you're saying if one movie has an explosion then a death, no other movie should do for fear of being similar to another. At least, with a believable X Division and a decent knock out scene and, of course, the ring you can say that TNA is trying something completely different from WWE but, maybe you are neglecting to remember that they are both wrestling and are gonna be somewhat similar. Look at the MTV wrestling and how that was different, and how long it lasted? lol. You can say you hate TNA's product, but shouldn't compare it to WWE just for appealing to what wrestling fans are used to, especially if you're using it as a negative point when their are obvious positives coming from the product aswell.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Sept 2, 2008 19:08:20 GMT -5
Squash Match Backstage segment Commercial Backstage segment Short Match Backstage Segment Commercial Horrendous Sketch Comedy Segment Commercial And so on... I'd say that pretty much mirrors your typical WWE show to the letter. You have just explained American wrestling for the last 15 years. To me, it's like you're saying if one movie has an explosion then a death, no other movie should do for fear of being similar to another. If you've read my criticisms of TNA, you'd know that I've always readily acknowledged that I'm a little burned out on the mainstream wrestling formula. It's why I tend to prefer indy wrestling, because their formula's pretty stale now. Like you just said, it's been done for 15 years, I'd like to see someone shake things up a bit. And TNA, even though they've promised to be "the future of professional wrestling" is really just more of the same. Truth be told, WWE is actually more innovative than they are at this point, since TNA pretty much mirrors WWE from 10 years ago. Believable X-Division? Are we watching the same show? You know, the one with a black man who thinks he's Randy Savage? A man in a fish costume who thinks he's Steve Austin? A man trying to pattern his life--and his appearance--after Scott Steiner? A man who thinks he's a super hero? And believe it or not, I LIKED Wrestling Society X. The fact that it bombed so horribly kind of made me realize that what works in mainstream wrestling just doesn't appeal to me anymore, and I all but gave up on them altogether. At this point, I just keep up with the guys I like who stepped up from the indies, to see how they're doing. I've yet to say I hate TNA's product. But, if they want to be a mainstream player, TNA better be prepared to be compared with WWE. And someday, they really need to recognized as something different than the E. Most people still think they're just another WWE show. And, since TNA pretty much mirrors the E in many ways, who can blame them?
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Post by George Harrison on Sept 3, 2008 19:30:14 GMT -5
So, you're saying you don't like the current wrestling formula of what you see on TV, so instead of not actually watching, you watch and overly criticise something that you admit to not really caring about?
Isn't that just wasting your own time? If you're out to critisize something in your own way, at least accept other peoples responses, people who actually care about TNA.
All of your High Points was marred with something mixed in that was negative against what you said, and contradicting at the same time.
I actually cannot fathom the need for your thread, it definitely felt like you just watched and wanted to tell people why it sucks, for no reason. You admit to not being a fan of TNA but still post a critical response to their product littered with negativity and then pretty much ignore any arguments against it?
Then what is the point?
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Sept 3, 2008 19:48:08 GMT -5
So, you're saying you don't like the current wrestling formula of what you see on TV, so instead of not actually watching, you watch and overly criticise something that you admit to not really caring about? Isn't that just wasting your own time? If you're out to critisize something in your own way, at least accept other peoples responses, people who actually care about TNA. Well, like I said, Burn Notice is replaced with tennis for the next couple of weeks, so my Thursday evenings were free. I just thought I'd give them a shot, and then post the thoughts from a non-fan's perspective. Tell ya what, next time I'll contact you first to make sure that's ok. Hey, it's a message board for pro wrestling. I like posting my thoughts when I've got the time. I don't ignore anyone's arguments; they've just yet to change my view of TNA.
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Above Average
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Post by Above Average on Sept 3, 2008 19:57:00 GMT -5
Jarrett was a multiple time I.C. champion at a time when the WWE was stacked and the I.C. title was the second most prestigious title in the company. I'd say that's equal to holding the lesser of the two 'world' titles in today's WWE. He's also a former WCW champion. I'd say there's a good chance he could be a main eventer in the WWE, and there's no question he's a legit main eventer in a second-tier company like TNA. I'd also say those arguing against him are blinded by their own personal bias against the man. Well said. I wonder if people would feel the same way had Austin not been a prick and held Jeff down in WWE? Somehow I think not.
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Post by George Harrison on Sept 3, 2008 20:05:22 GMT -5
^ was there ever any reasoning for Austin to hold Jarret down and refuse to do a programme with him? I never really found out what happened there, was it just Stone Cold not liking the idea? I remember I used to watch a few weeks and then miss a few weeks, and from out of nowhere Jeff Jarrett was on WCW with guitar in hand and I couldn't understand why lol
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Sept 3, 2008 20:44:13 GMT -5
Jarrett was a multiple time I.C. champion at a time when the WWE was stacked and the I.C. title was the second most prestigious title in the company. I'd say that's equal to holding the lesser of the two 'world' titles in today's WWE. He's also a former WCW champion. I'd say there's a good chance he could be a main eventer in the WWE, and there's no question he's a legit main eventer in a second-tier company like TNA. I'd also say those arguing against him are blinded by their own personal bias against the man. Well said. I wonder if people would feel the same way had Austin not been a prick and held Jeff down in WWE? Somehow I think not. The only people that seem to believe this are Jarrett-fans. I've honestly never seen, read, or hear ANYTHING to suggest this really happened. So I just don't buy it. If it did, the only thing Austin would've had to say was "Seriously, Vince...JARRETT!?!" and Vince would've realized how stupid the idea was. If Jarrett was held down (and, again, I don't believe he was), then he damn well should've been. The IC belt is all he was ever good for.
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Post by Bobby Womack on Sept 4, 2008 6:32:02 GMT -5
the jarrett love fest was definitely stupid, is a video package supposed to make all the fans forget that hes the same guy theyve been booing for the better part of 10 years and nearly his whole career? the idea of jarrett being the leader of the face group against sting the leader of the heel group is going to get over about as much as the original millionaires/nb angle, as already evident by sting getting cheered all throughout his promo, and jarrett definitely still doesnt feel like a main eventer, perhaps if he had a slow build rather than russo hotshotting him into the main event he might be believable, but russo's and his own booking later on has made him seem like he still belongs in the midcard
also the abyss/karen thing was embarassing, karen cant act and the whole scene was just uncomfortable, this repackage is already bad enough without throwing karen into the mix
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Above Average
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Post by Above Average on Sept 4, 2008 19:16:48 GMT -5
^ was there ever any reasoning for Austin to hold Jarret down and refuse to do a programme with him? I never really found out what happened there, was it just Stone Cold not liking the idea? I remember I used to watch a few weeks and then miss a few weeks, and from out of nowhere Jeff Jarrett was on WCW with guitar in hand and I couldn't understand why lol Austin refused to work with Jeff stemming from the fact that he and Jeff didn't get along prior to WWE basically. And Vince didn't want to risk upsetting his biggest star, so unfortunately Jarrett never got the WWF title run he deserved.
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