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Post by lockedontarget on Nov 21, 2008 1:58:20 GMT -5
I can't believe people are actually defending that awful miscarriage storyline. Understand that people aren't complaining about it being "serious" and "deep". People are complaining because it was horrible writing. CAD is a terrible webcomic with terrible art and terrible jokes, that occasionally makes incredibly poor attempts at drama. It deserves all the scorn it gets. Uh......huh..... Well let me ask you this. Do you think you could do a better job? If you think a person's art style and writing sucks, you should have something to compare it to. Are you serious? The "well lets see you do something better!" defense? I'm allowed to decide if I think something is good or not regardless of my own skill set. With your logic I can never judge a movie because I don't act or direct, I can never judge a wrestling mach becasue I don't wrestle, I can never judge a piece of art because I'm not an artist. You can't just say "well YOU don't draw so you can't say it's a bad drawing!". That's ridiculous. |
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Nov 21, 2008 2:26:57 GMT -5
Uh......huh..... Well let me ask you this. Do you think you could do a better job? If you think a person's art style and writing sucks, you should have something to compare it to. Are you serious? The "well lets see you do something better!" defense? I'm allowed to decide if I think something is good or not regardless of my own skill set. With your logic I can never judge a movie because I don't act or direct, I can never judge a wrestling mach becasue I don't wrestle, I can never judge a piece of art because I'm not an artist. You can't just say "well YOU don't draw so you can't say it's a bad drawing!". That's ridiculous. The point is you shouldn't bash a person's webcomic for the art style. I mean for crying out loud, one of the most popular and famous webcomics is Cyanide and Happiness and its art style is just one step above f***ing STICK FIGURES. As for the writing, well that is subjective, but Buckley has some of the better writing amongst comedy webcomics. So, to review: 1) You should never use a person's art style as a reason to hate a webcomic, because really it isn't about the art but really the writing, as, like I've already state C&H is popular and has an art style that a brain dead chimp can come up with. 2) Writing is subjective, but if anything that should be the only thing bashed on with a webcomic, because of point #1. I mean f***, my own art style isn't that good, yet the members of this board just love it to death and all it really is, is glorified Miis(and this is something I only recently realized). Personally, Tim's art style is better than mine because he can actually draw clothes and full anatomies. In the drawing department, the only area I kick his ass in is faces, because at least I try to make each character's face look a little different. Writing wise, we are about the same really, though my writing is more to the point and is quick punchlines, kind of like Penny-Arcade, while he has huge word bubbles and tons of text, but then again our writing styles fit our strip styles. Mine is single large panel gag-a-day strips that have little connection to each other, while Tim has 4 panel strips and has actual connecting storylines. Only true major difference is, Tim gets paid to do his webcomic, and I don't....but I should, damn it!         ;D |
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Post by lockedontarget on Nov 21, 2008 3:02:31 GMT -5
Part of what makes a comic a comic is that it involves artwork in an important role. If it was all about the writing, it would just be a block of text. Art is important, and to just say "you can't call a comic bad if the art is bad" is TERRIBLE logic. "You can't call it bad because there's something worse" is also terrible logic.
A comedic comic might be able to be good in spite of bad art if the writing is good enough, but even then the art plays an important role in the delivery of the writing. As long as the work includes art, the art will be important to the body of the work and will count towards the overall quality.
There's also the simple fact that CAD isn't just a gag comic, like C&H. CAD actually attempts to build characters and have drama. Art plays a CRUCIAL role, it expresses emotions and body language. The writing just gives you the lines, the art gives you the ACTING. Much of the storytelling is in the art.
Also, you're confusing "bad art" with "simple style". The quality of art doesn't solely depend on how detailed it is. Order of the Stick is literally stick figures yet it's artwork contains more personality and flows better than anything I've ever seen Buckley draw.
And Buckley's writing among the best in webcomics? Forced drama, weak punchlines, and no sense of subtlety is all I see from him. Combined with his terribly unexpressive art both his "funny" and "serious" material fall incredibly flat for me pretty much every single time.
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Nov 21, 2008 3:22:57 GMT -5
ok, I found the pennyarcade quote in question!
"Recently, Tim Buckley (CAD) tried a serious turn with the miscarriage plot, and the community ... there was a huge backlash.
Tycho: Well, some of the community. Some people thought he was this mad genius prophet or whatever.
Gabe: I think he's an art criminal.
Tycho: I think Tim Buckley is the antichrist, and I think that miscarriage storyline was the first horseman of the Apocalypse."
yeah, to me it sounds like only gabe was criticizing buckley, while tycho was just being sarcastic.
so yeah, I don't know how that comment caused this whole thread to turn into a giant debate about ctrl+alt+del...
maybe we should go back to talking about penny-arcade?
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Nov 21, 2008 3:23:40 GMT -5
You can't be serious. Please tell me you're not serious. Part of what makes a comic a comic is that it involves artwork in an important role. If it was all about the writing, it would just be a block of text. Art is important, and to just say "you can't call a comic bad if the art is bad" is TERRIBLE logic. "You can't call it bad because there's something worse" is also terrible logic. A comedic comic might be able to be good in spite of bad art if the writing is good enough, but even then the art plays an important role in the delivery of the writing. As long as the work includes art, the art will be important to the body of the work and will count towards the overall quality. There's also the simple fact that CAD isn't just a gag comic, like C&H. CAD actually attempts to build characters and have drama. Art plays a CRUCIAL role, it expresses emotions and body language. The writing just gives you the lines, the art gives you the ACTING. Much of the storytelling is in the art. Also, you're confusing "bad art" with "simple style". The quality of art doesn't solely depend on how detailed it is. Order of the Stick is literally stick figures yet it's artwork contains more personality and flows better than anything I've ever seen Buckley draw. And Buckley's writing among the best in webcomics? Forced drama, weak punchlines, and no sense of subtlety is all I see from him. Combined with his terribly unexpressive art both his "funny" and "serious" material fall incredibly flat for me pretty much every single time. .......wow....... What CAD are you reading? Because the CAD I'm reading has lots of emotion put in the faces. Also, I'm being dead serious. I've even seen serious webcomics with simple, aka bad, art style. In terms of comics, very simple drawings is a bad art style. The more simple the art the more the writing has to be good to make up for it. That is all the art does. The more detailed the art is, the more emotion can be put into the art, and thusly the less strain there is put on the writer. Maybe we have different views because you are simply a reader of webcomics, while I'm an actual creator and see these things in a different light. From the view point of a reader, like you, I can understand how people can claim CAD is bad, but being a creator now, I actually have to applaud Buckley, because he put actual work into his strips. Me? I draw the characters, write in the text, and then ink over it, simple. I can't draw backgrounds, I can't draw hands or feet or arms or legs or even necks or torsos all that well. All I'm good at is drawing heads, that is it. For him to draw full bodies, and actually putting a LOT of detail in when needed(check his Gears of War and WoW: Wrath of the Lich King drawings for proof), as well as putting detailed background, and making it all flow well, well I gotta give him a standing ovation. That being said......I'm going to take his ass down someday........ |
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Nov 21, 2008 3:25:25 GMT -5
ok, I found the pennyarcade quote in question! "Recently, Tim Buckley (CAD) tried a serious turn with the miscarriage plot, and the community ... there was a huge backlash. Tycho: Well, some of the community. Some people thought he was this mad genius prophet or whatever. Gabe: I think he's an art criminal. Tycho: I think Tim Buckley is the antichrist, and I think that miscarriage storyline was the first horseman of the Apocalypse." yeah, to me it sounds like only gabe was criticizing buckley, while tycho was just being sarcastic. so yeah, I don't know how that comment caused this whole thread to turn into a giant debate about ctrl+alt+del... maybe we should go back to talking about penny-arcade? It is too late to go back to Penny-Arcade. The thread has already been highjacked and is too far down the CAD path. The only solution now is to turn the thread into an all purpose webcomic thread. |
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Nov 21, 2008 3:32:43 GMT -5
ok, I found the pennyarcade quote in question! "Recently, Tim Buckley (CAD) tried a serious turn with the miscarriage plot, and the community ... there was a huge backlash. Tycho: Well, some of the community. Some people thought he was this mad genius prophet or whatever. Gabe: I think he's an art criminal. Tycho: I think Tim Buckley is the antichrist, and I think that miscarriage storyline was the first horseman of the Apocalypse." yeah, to me it sounds like only gabe was criticizing buckley, while tycho was just being sarcastic. so yeah, I don't know how that comment caused this whole thread to turn into a giant debate about ctrl+alt+del... maybe we should go back to talking about penny-arcade? It is too late to go back to Penny-Arcade. The thread has already been highjacked and is too far down the CAD path. The only solution now is to turn the thread into an all purpose webcomic thread. IT'S NEVER TOO LATE!!! |
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Nov 21, 2008 3:35:05 GMT -5
It is too late to go back to Penny-Arcade. The thread has already been highjacked and is too far down the CAD path. The only solution now is to turn the thread into an all purpose webcomic thread. IT'S NEVER TOO LATE!!! Yes it is! Damn it Bossk! All the other bounty hunters got a head start on you because you were the only were to have the courtesy to take off your shoes. Manners are its own reward, you know. |
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Nov 21, 2008 5:24:59 GMT -5
At least the ping pong arc was grounded in computer games (You know the ping pong game on xbox 360 started that up). Plus the art was wicked.
CAD's miscarriage story just felt out of place, which to be fair can be said for a lot of CAD's strips so maybe it is in tone with there style. But I'm only interested in the ones that relate to gaming, so meh.
VGCats are usually funny though.
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Anyway this is all about Penny Arcade and there wacky humour being ten years old, hurray!
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Nov 21, 2008 6:11:57 GMT -5
Yes it is! Damn it Bossk! All the other bounty hunters got a head start on you because you were the only were to have the courtesy to take off your shoes. Manners are its own reward, you know. it should also be noted that right after this I changed my gimmick to thoroughly confuse koda. |
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Mr T L Wolf
Hank Scorpio
He has the looks of Andre the Giant, and the strength of Barry Windham. Not to mention he's a hero to a few armadillos, a kangaroo and a small herd of bison.
Posts: 5,319
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Post by Mr T L Wolf on Nov 21, 2008 12:26:01 GMT -5
Some thoughts:
Cyanide and Happiness and F@nboys BOTH poked a little fun at the miscarriage arc as well. F@nboys, when talking about making more cartoons and games be darker (because of Spyro), it had Sonic in Ethan's place and Amy in Lilah's. Cyanide and Happiness did the last 3 panels of the major comic followed by "Ethan" recanting Buckley's own rant about the miscarriage his girlfriend at the time suffered.
Also, if you read Buckley's write-up about the story twist, he mentioned that he had it planned the entire time. He didn't up and decide "Oh, let's have Lilah have a miscarriage!" when he was drawing that week's comics.
Back to PA, I think they've been hit or miss lately. I've seen today's comic, and I didn't think it was all that funny, but they've had their moments. And "Paint The Arc" was just weird. I wish they'd devote that kind of attention to more than one CTS arc a year.
PS. Read MS Paint Adventures, if you like absurd, slightly confusing comics based on hard-boiled detectives and old adventure games.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Nov 21, 2008 13:09:31 GMT -5
At least the ping pong arc was grounded in computer games (You know the ping pong game on xbox 360 started that up). Plus the art was wicked. CAD's miscarriage story just felt out of place, which to be fair can be said for a lot of CAD's strips so maybe it is in tone with there style. But I'm only interested in the ones that relate to gaming, so meh. VGCats are usually funny though. --------------------- Anyway this is all about Penny Arcade and there wacky humour being ten years old, hurray! I do agree that VG Cats is almost always great, but since the dude only updates about once a month, it's really hard for me to praise him too much. |
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Mr T L Wolf
Hank Scorpio
He has the looks of Andre the Giant, and the strength of Barry Windham. Not to mention he's a hero to a few armadillos, a kangaroo and a small herd of bison.
Posts: 5,319
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Post by Mr T L Wolf on Nov 21, 2008 13:15:50 GMT -5
At least the ping pong arc was grounded in computer games (You know the ping pong game on xbox 360 started that up). Plus the art was wicked. CAD's miscarriage story just felt out of place, which to be fair can be said for a lot of CAD's strips so maybe it is in tone with there style. But I'm only interested in the ones that relate to gaming, so meh. VGCats are usually funny though. --------------------- Anyway this is all about Penny Arcade and there wacky humour being ten years old, hurray! I do agree that VG Cats is almost always great, but since the dude only updates about once a month, it's really hard for me to praise him too much. At least he has a sense of humor about it. And, his update schedule is better than Staccato or The Outer Circle. |
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;D
helped $lim jinx NXT. Woops