Time for Sting to turn Fully Heel

[Snowman]

On this "Old Guys" side we have Angle going batshit crazy and killing jobbers, Booker being a pompous ass, and Nash giving an awesome Old Skool Heel promo after squashing "Unconscious Creed"

Now, no doubt that Sting has been on fire with his promos recently, but it's time to start stepping it up a notch and heel it up a lot more like those other guys have been doing. I mean, I like the shades of grey stuff but it's just a bit weird when you have got a bunch of big heels alligned with a guy who is still massivly over as a face.

I hope next week he cheapshots AJ and beats him to a bloody pulp, all in the name of respect!

[Hiroshi Hase]

They could try it, but I don't think the fans would buy it.

[King of Fighters]

Sting would have to do the following to get the fans to turn against him

1. Rape Jesus, then kill Jesus
2. Drown a family of puppies and Kittens
3. Hand David Arquette the title
4. Put Hitlers brain in his body
5. Rape Jesus dead body

And even then he would still be cheered.

[Mayonnaise]

I think the rumor was that when they first started this, they gave him a heel promo to use and he shot it down. Plus a heel Sting hasn't been the most successful idea when tried before.

[Snowman]

Oct 17, 2008 16:43:43 GMT -5 King of Fighters said:

Sting would have to do the following to get the fans to turn against him

1. Rape Jesus, then kill Jesus
2. Drown a family of puppies and Kittens
3. Hand David Arquette the title
4. Put Hitlers brain in his body
5. Rape Jesus dead body

And even then he would still be cheered.

He could rape eric Young! everyne loves Eric Young!

[King of Fighters]

Oct 17, 2008 16:53:26 GMT -5 Snowman said:

Oct 17, 2008 16:43:43 GMT -5 King of Fighters said:

Sting would have to do the following to get the fans to turn against him

1. Rape Jesus, then kill Jesus
2. Drown a family of puppies and Kittens
3. Hand David Arquette the title
4. Put Hitlers brain in his body
5. Rape Jesus dead body

And even then he would still be cheered.

He could rape eric Young! everyne loves Eric Young!

We said turn him heel, not make me wanna get a bunch of guys togther and lynch him (Is a EY fan).

[primetime110]

They had Sting jump Joe and AJ. Still got cheered. Now, AJ will get more cheers for him than anyone else on the TNA roster against Sting. But Sting still will get cheeered more than AJ, But it'll be close.

I found it funny Joe comes to the ring through the fans and calls the fans "His army", All the while "His Army" is chanting sloppy Joe. It is interesting that Nash just ripped the fans now will tag with the top face.

So its tweener joe and face AJ against heel Nash and Face Sting. I'm still loving the storyline. This will be the first time Sting has had anything to do with the heels on camera since the storyline started.

[chairshotshurthead]

Oct 17, 2008 16:33:56 GMT -5 Snowman said:

On this "Old Guys" side we have Angle going batcrap crazy and killing jobbers, Booker being a pompous ass, and Nash giving an awesome Old Skool Heel promo after squashing "Unconscious Creed"

Now, no doubt that Sting has been on fire with his promos recently, but it's time to start stepping it up a notch and heel it up a lot more like those other guys have been doing. I mean, I like the shades of grey stuff but it's just a bit weird when you have got a bunch of big heels alligned with a guy who is still massivly over as a face.

I hope next week he cheapshots AJ and beats him to a bloody pulp, all in the name of respect!

Not a single thing of that is happening dude, and even if it did, not gonna work. Sting is not a heel. Sting has not been a heel. Sting is not going to be a heel and especially not in TNA in 2008. You might as well call up Ricky Steamboat and try to turn him heel dude, not gonna happen.

And seriously, if you still think Sting is in anyway a heel and Samoa Joe is in any way a face in this angle, then it is my opinion that you are on crack. Even in a company like TNA where week to week you can never keep track of who the faces and the heels are, it's patently obvious that Sting's the face and Joe's the heel, if only from the standpoint that the FANS hate Joe and love Sting.

[Jay Peas 42]

Yeah, Sting can't be a full heel. That's the wonderful part of the New Blood vs. Millionare's Club angle. Both sides have a legitimate argument. Planet Jarrett can claim to have built the company from the ground up, and Team Angle can argue that they are legends of the business who have put this little hick promotion on the map, abd each wrestler can have their own motives. I mean, if you can't do complex booking in TNA, a promotion that's fanbase is Smarkery and IWC, where can you?

[Chainsaw]

Ha ha ha...yeah, good luck with that.

[ritt works hard fo da chickens]

Is Sting really that great if he can't pull off a heel turn. We put him in the ranks of Flair, HBK, Hogan, Hart, Austin, Rock etc. but all those other guys COULD pull off heel. Even if just for small angles, ALA HBK vs Hogan.

[Zombie Pig]

Oct 18, 2008 4:21:56 GMT -5 ritt works hard fo da chickens said:

Is Sting really that great if he can't pull off a heel turn. We put him in the ranks of Flair, HBK, Hogan, Hart, Austin, Rock etc. but all those other guys COULD pull off heel. Even if just for small angles, ALA HBK vs Hogan.

Hogan is more popular than HBK, that is how HBK was able to work as a heel. Sting isn't going to be over as a heel unless he's facing someone the fans love more than him.

[Topher is Human]

Oct 18, 2008 5:05:18 GMT -5 Zombie Pig said:

Oct 18, 2008 4:21:56 GMT -5 ritt works hard fo da chickens said:

Is Sting really that great if he can't pull off a heel turn. We put him in the ranks of Flair, HBK, Hogan, Hart, Austin, Rock etc. but all those other guys COULD pull off heel. Even if just for small angles, ALA HBK vs Hogan.

Hogan is more popular than HBK, that is how HBK was able to work as a heel. Sting isn't going to be over as a heel unless he's facing someone the fans love more than him.

And sadly (or thankfully) it's pretty much impossible to boo the man called Sting. The man could sell out a WWE event despite never working there.

That said... if you took a shot everytime Sting yelled JOE! in that promo you'd be smashed before AJ came out.

[ritt works hard fo da chickens]

Hogan is more popular than HBK, that is how HBK was able to work as a heel. Sting isn't going to be over as a heel unless he's facing someone the fans love more than him.

I'd argue HBK could have gone the Sting route and refused to play the heel and stolen a lot of Hogan's heat. Hell, you can't tell me Orton was more loved then Flair. Flair knew how to pull off a heel turn though. It really should be Sting's job to get Joe more over if he's the more popular one. IMHO, he just comes off as lazy, taking the easy way. He puts him over on the mic, but not in the ring. It don't make sense to me.

[Can you afford to pay me, Gah]

Oct 18, 2008 5:05:18 GMT -5 Zombie Pig said:

Oct 18, 2008 4:21:56 GMT -5 ritt works hard fo da chickens said:

Is Sting really that great if he can't pull off a heel turn. We put him in the ranks of Flair, HBK, Hogan, Hart, Austin, Rock etc. but all those other guys COULD pull off heel. Even if just for small angles, ALA HBK vs Hogan.

Hogan is more popular than HBK, that is how HBK was able to work as a heel. Sting isn't going to be over as a heel unless he's facing someone the fans love more than him.

No Hogan got cheered because most of the Raws was in Canada where HBK is not liked at all. Plus HBK went into Canada and mocked the crap out of them with the use of Bret Hart's name. Sting is a lot like Ricky Steamboat. He just can't be a heel. Yea all of those names pull it off as a heel. But you have to remember they when they went heel they end up being liked. I mean lets look at it.

Hogan: Before Hogan turned. Fans started hating him anyway. because he was the same old act. He turned heel and fans went with it. But once the NWO angle took off. Hogan still had his fans. The NWO had its fans.

Flair: Once again he was great in the 80s and most of the 90s playing the heel. But by the time the late 90s came and up to know. Not matter what Flair did. He still had a lot of cheers.

The Rock: Again he went heel after fans shit on Rocky Maivia. But once the fans got the Rock Character. Again he became huge face. Even as Hollywood Heel Rock. He still had people cheering him.

Hart: In the WWE he was only heel in the US. Because he went all anti US on them. In WCW I can't speak on it well because how WCW booked him. Half the time he was jumping around as a face or heel. Nobody could follow it.

Austin: Once he feuded with Hart. Austin could never get over as a heel fully. I mean the WWE did a lot to try and get people to hate Austin. Even with HHH and McMachon. Austin still had noticeable cheers. In invasion he was having a hard time getting heel heat. Just remember that the whole "What!!!" chant started during invasion.

Sting is at the point that he the respected vertan. He far in his career to be heel. Sting said over as a heel because he one had a colorful look that he changes that kept him over to the kids. He then changed his look and character to Crow Sting. That changed refreshed it. They tried turning Sting heel with beating Hogan down with a bad. Still didn't work. Now Sting is the legend that fans respect. How you turn they heel? Simple because it's Sting. Fans won't buy it.

[Hiroshi Hase]

Oct 18, 2008 18:13:03 GMT -5 Can you afford to pay me, Gah said:

Oct 18, 2008 5:05:18 GMT -5 Zombie Pig said:

Hogan is more popular than HBK, that is how HBK was able to work as a heel. Sting isn't going to be over as a heel unless he's facing someone the fans love more than him.

No Hogan got cheered because most of the Raws was in Canada where HBK is not liked at all. Plus HBK went into Canada and mocked the crap out of them with the use of Bret Hart's name. Sting is a lot like Ricky Steamboat. He just can't be a heel. Yea all of those names pull it off as a heel. But you have to remember they when they went heel they end up being liked. I mean lets look at it.

Hogan: Before Hogan turned. Fans started hating him anyway. because he was the same old act. He turned heel and fans went with it. But once the NWO angle took off. Hogan still had his fans. The NWO had its fans.

Flair: Once again he was great in the 80s and most of the 90s playing the heel. But by the time the late 90s came and up to know. Not matter what Flair did. He still had a lot of cheers.

The Rock: Again he went heel after fans crap on Rocky Maivia. But once the fans got the Rock Character. Again he became huge face. Even as Hollywood Heel Rock. He still had people cheering him.

Hart: In the WWE he was only heel in the US. Because he went all anti US on them. In WCW I can't speak on it well because how WCW booked him. Half the time he was jumping around as a face or heel. Nobody could follow it.

Austin: Once he feuded with Hart. Austin could never get over as a heel fully. I mean the WWE did a lot to try and get people to hate Austin. Even with HHH and McMachon. Austin still had noticeable cheers. In invasion he was having a hard time getting heel heat. Just remember that the whole "What!!!" chant started during invasion.

Sting is at the point that he the respected vertan. He far in his career to be heel. Sting said over as a heel because he one had a colorful look that he changes that kept him over to the kids. He then changed his look and character to Crow Sting. That changed refreshed it. They tried turning Sting heel with beating Hogan down with a bad. Still didn't work. Now Sting is the legend that fans respect. How you turn they heel? Simple because it's Sting. Fans won't buy it.

Actually only one Raw was in Canada during that particular feud with HBK/Hogan and that was the one leading into the PPV. The others were in Jersey, and a few other places that escape me, but Hogan was still cheered more than him.

As for Sting, I do agree the guy can do just about anything and fans just won't boo him. They could have him out there and say Joe's name a thousand times (felt like he did on Impact) and bury the young guys and he'd still get a pop.

[ritt works hard fo da chickens]

See i can see the Steamboat/Sting comparison, but Steamboat was mostly a midcarder. Even so, I believe he could have pulled it off especially in the kayfabe era he was in. Betray face friend, cutdown crowd Collect boos.
I still think the other guys did a fine job for the angles they were in at the time. People loved Flair even when he was part of Evolution, but he was still able to get heel heat when needed to give a rub to Orton and Batista to start them on their face run. Think about that, by actions alone Flair took the heat and gave the pop to Orton who the fans didn't want to like.

You can say Rock was less popular than Hogan or Austin or even Foley and have a legitimate argument but Hurricane Helms or Farooq? Bryan Danielson is all but a god in ROH, but he could always go heel for a feud when needed during his reign. He made people believe in Delerious who had earlier that year just won his first match. He played heel to Roddy, Nigel, Colt and was way more loved than any of them.

I'm not saying Stings gonna be the top heel, or even a long term one, but in this feud they needed him to be the heel. They wrote him as the heel. And he vetoed that idea and winged his own way into tweener. I have long loved Sting, but I think if this were any other wrestler, us smarks would be pissed not applauding.

[chairshotshurthead]

Oct 18, 2008 22:38:37 GMT -5 ritt works hard fo da chickens said:

See i can see the Steamboat/Sting comparison, but Steamboat was mostly a midcarder. Even so, I believe he could have pulled it off especially in the kayfabe era he was in. Betray face friend, cutdown crowd Collect boos.

I still think the other guys did a fine job for the angles they were in at the time. People loved Flair even when he was part of Evolution, but he was still able to get heel heat when needed to give a rub to Orton and Batista to start them on their face run. Think about that, by actions alone Flair took the heat and gave the pop to Orton who the fans didn't want to like.

You can say Rock was less popular than Hogan or Austin or even Foley and have a legitimate argument but Hurricane Helms or Farooq? Bryan Danielson is all but a god in ROH, but he could always go heel for a feud when needed during his reign. He made people believe in Delerious who had earlier that year just won his first match. He played heel to Roddy, Nigel, Colt and was way more loved than any of them.

I'm not saying Stings gonna be the top heel, or even a long term one, but in this feud they needed him to be the heel. They wrote him as the heel. And he vetoed that idea and winged his own way into tweener. I have long loved Sting, but I think if this were any other wrestler, us smarks would be pissed not applauding.

Actually, Steamboat was a top name for most of his career, stemming primarily from his matches with Ric Flair going as far back as Mid-Atlantic in '77 when he and Flair were both just starting to make their names. The majority of the time he spent as a 'midcarder' was during his WWF days in the late 80's following his IC title run off the heels of his legendary Mania III match with Savage, and of course during the 90's when they brought him back to breathe fire and all that crap. In WCW, the guy was pretty much always a top tier talent and an established legend well before his retirement back in '94.

Anyway, you really can't compare Sting to the likes of Flair or Rock because those were different kinds of performers, and they're not even great examples of people who have been able to maintain a heel turn later in their careers because even during those heel periods there was still a great deal of respect for them that shone through. And just because those guys weren't hated as much later in their careers as they were in their prime didn't mean that they couldn't get others over.

Bottom line, there are just some guys who just aren't cut out to be heels, especially when they get to a later point in their careers as Sting has, because no matter how hard they try, regardless of whether they've been successful as heels in the past, it's not going to work because they are too recognised and respected.

[ritt works hard fo da chickens]

I'm sorry i should have been more clear in my previous post. I meant for Steamboat I believe it would have been possible to pull off a heel turn while he was on top which was a very kayfabe era. Maybe as a midcarder it would have been harder. That's really beside the point though.

What I said was they don't need Sting to be the top heel or even a long term heel. I agree that might be hard to pull off. What they needed was a heel Sting at the start of this angle. The angle was written with him as heel. He pulled an audible and the writers didn't adjust their plans so the storyline seems disconnected and nobody came out of the feud with any direction or looking any better.

In this era I do not believe being a heel and being liked are mutually exclusive. The NWO were always heels and always cheered. Still we wanted to see them get taken down a peg. Original DX were wildly over, yet people wanted the Owen Harts and Ken Shamrocks of WWE to band together and give them theirs. As a stable or faction, which Sting has been given to work with, getting heel heat is a lot easier. John Cena rose to the top as a heel who was cheered in this era. Fans are more and more inside and willing to play along.

I think the saying that some people can't do heel work is way overestimated.

[Can you afford to pay me, Gah]

Oct 18, 2008 22:00:47 GMT -5 Hiroshi Hase said:

Oct 18, 2008 18:13:03 GMT -5 Can you afford to pay me, Gah said:

No Hogan got cheered because most of the Raws was in Canada where HBK is not liked at all. Plus HBK went into Canada and mocked the crap out of them with the use of Bret Hart's name. Sting is a lot like Ricky Steamboat. He just can't be a heel. Yea all of those names pull it off as a heel. But you have to remember they when they went heel they end up being liked. I mean lets look at it.

Hogan: Before Hogan turned. Fans started hating him anyway. because he was the same old act. He turned heel and fans went with it. But once the NWO angle took off. Hogan still had his fans. The NWO had its fans.

Flair: Once again he was great in the 80s and most of the 90s playing the heel. But by the time the late 90s came and up to know. Not matter what Flair did. He still had a lot of cheers.

The Rock: Again he went heel after fans crap on Rocky Maivia. But once the fans got the Rock Character. Again he became huge face. Even as Hollywood Heel Rock. He still had people cheering him.

Hart: In the WWE he was only heel in the US. Because he went all anti US on them. In WCW I can't speak on it well because how WCW booked him. Half the time he was jumping around as a face or heel. Nobody could follow it.

Austin: Once he feuded with Hart. Austin could never get over as a heel fully. I mean the WWE did a lot to try and get people to hate Austin. Even with HHH and McMachon. Austin still had noticeable cheers. In invasion he was having a hard time getting heel heat. Just remember that the whole "What!!!" chant started during invasion.

Sting is at the point that he the respected vertan. He far in his career to be heel. Sting said over as a heel because he one had a colorful look that he changes that kept him over to the kids. He then changed his look and character to Crow Sting. That changed refreshed it. They tried turning Sting heel with beating Hogan down with a bad. Still didn't work. Now Sting is the legend that fans respect. How you turn they heel? Simple because it's Sting. Fans won't buy it.

Actually only one Raw was in Canada during that particular feud with HBK/Hogan and that was the one leading into the PPV. The others were in Jersey, and a few other places that escape me, but Hogan was still cheered more than him.

As for Sting, I do agree the guy can do just about anything and fans just won't boo him. They could have him out there and say Joe's name a thousand times (felt like he did on Impact) and bury the young guys and he'd still get a pop.

Sorry about that. I just realized that too after watching the HBK segement with Piper from Piper's DVD. I don't know it if was editing but when he came out there was hardly a reaction from the crowd. Then he had some cheers when he was explaining what was going on. Then you heard a a view boos when he kicked Piper.

I'm trying to remember all his segements from that. I know one was a video of him playing Hogan on a larry King segement. Then there was the face to face deal. Which Hogan the respect legend did get a bigger pop then HBK.

But HBK after SummerSlam HBK went back as a face and never looked back.

But what is amazing as I spoke on Piper. Is that he is another guy that fans like so much now. This guy went from most hated guy in the 80s. To a man who could never be a heel. He had a short term in WCW. In the WWE he still was cheered a lot in his 03 run. Even when he was a heel then he still was over as a face.