Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,125
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 6, 2008 17:20:32 GMT -5
Well, that's the point, they're heels. As Lance Storm said, the heel isn't supposed to be the cool guy, or he makes the face look like an idiot. Well when HBK/HHH were heels as DX they also came off as really hip and cool... a little gay, but cool. Same thing with the nWo They were also scumbags, though, nWo in particular. They were the self absorbed type, kind of like Morrison though his and Miz's are of a comical variety.
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Nov 6, 2008 17:42:31 GMT -5
Was Jason Hervey big when Paul brought him into ECW? I don't believe Jason Hervey was ever in ECW. He was in WCW back in the early 1990s when Heymen was with the company and The Wonder Years was big.
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Hanzo
Dennis Stamp
"You want Cena to go to ECW?!"
Posts: 4,666
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Post by Hanzo on Nov 6, 2008 18:16:00 GMT -5
Heels aren't supposed to be cool? What about heel Undertaker or heel Rock?
Well granted, heel Rock has always been a total prick, especially Hollywood Rock. (Yay! Hooray! That's where we live!! We in Canada!!--SHUT UP!!) ;D
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Jay Peas 42
El Dandy
Totally flips out ALL the time.
Is looking forward to a Nation of Domination Kwannza Special.
Posts: 8,329
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Nov 6, 2008 22:22:09 GMT -5
I think cool heels have to be of the Bender, Cartman or Spike variety. They tempt us to be like them, but we know we can't, because we are moral and they are not. All three of the above are monsters, with no redeeming qualities, yet are definitely cool. That's something of the vibe Morrison gives off.
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Post by Red Impact on Nov 6, 2008 23:27:05 GMT -5
Was Jason Hervey big when Paul brought him into ECW? I don't believe Jason Hervey was ever in ECW. He was in WCW back in the early 1990s when Heymen was with the company and The Wonder Years was big. That's probably right, I remembered him talking about Sting after I posted it.
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Post by waffleofpower on Nov 6, 2008 23:30:57 GMT -5
I agree with him. DX should have lost that match. And the WWE's idea of what is cool is severely outdated. They have driven me to watch TNA for cryin out loud. (Which has been improving as of late, I must type.)
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Post by royboy8 on Nov 6, 2008 23:55:45 GMT -5
In fairness to the E, DX is being billed totally different then Miz and Morrison. DX is kind of old school nerdy, make fun of themselves cool now as compared to Miz and Morrison, who would never say a negative thing about themselves(the dirt sheet aside which basically insults the teams they are fueding with, unlike DX who falt out say things like Shawn is bald and Hunter has a big nose).
They also appear to be much more hardass, much like DX was in the 90's. I believe PaulE is missing the point for a change.
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Post by Cap'n Crud on Nov 7, 2008 1:14:08 GMT -5
I actually find HBK and HHH to come off a lot cooler then Miz/Morrison and I think todays youth should too. If you want to be like the Miz I feel very bad for you. As far as "hip" wrestlers, Heyman is right... HHH, HBK, Batista, Taker, Jericho, Matt Hardy, are not hip. Who is hip is CM Punk, Cena, Orton, Edge, and MVP if they would use him right. Well, that's the point, they're heels. As Lance Storm said, the heel isn't supposed to be the cool guy, or he makes the face look like an idiot. Then maybe it's time to overhaul the faces. Find out what it is the audience likes about the cool heels and adapt it to the faces. The whole white meat aww shucks overgrown boy scout thing just ain't gonna cut it in this day and age.
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Post by dh03grad on Nov 7, 2008 1:52:34 GMT -5
Well, that's the point, they're heels. As Lance Storm said, the heel isn't supposed to be the cool guy, or he makes the face look like an idiot. Then maybe it's time to overhaul the faces. Find out what it is the audience likes about the cool heels and adapt it to the faces. The whole white meat aww shucks overgrown boy scout thing just ain't gonna cut it in this day and age. The sad thing is, WWF knew that over 10 years ago and Vince went on TV and stated just that. What the hell happened?
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Post by Chuckie Finster on Nov 7, 2008 3:20:52 GMT -5
Well, that's the point, they're heels. As Lance Storm said, the heel isn't supposed to be the cool guy, or he makes the face look like an idiot. Then maybe it's time to overhaul the faces. Find out what it is the audience likes about the cool heels and adapt it to the faces. The whole white meat aww shucks overgrown boy scout thing just ain't gonna cut it in this day and age. Case and point, Randy Orton. He's a heel but being edgy in his own way and he's getting huge face pops. Also, that reminds me of what Kevin Nash said in an interview recently. He said that Vince still believes and wants his top babyface to be an American-flag carrying morally outstanding hero. The only reasons characters like Steve Austin and The Rock got pushed as edgy faces was that Vince was desperate to beat WCW so he went outside his comfort zone and trusted guys like Russo and such who wanted to be edgy. Heyman is dead-on in a lot of points. If WWE was as good storyline-wise as it is production wise, it would be another golden age in the WWE. I find WWE more predictable than ever when it comes to storylines. They can pull a diamond out of the rough every now and then and remind people how great they can be, but that's only sporadically and they almost never capitalize off their home runs.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Nov 7, 2008 3:24:54 GMT -5
SAVE_US.PAUL? If only nah not Chingo Bling he ain't that popular... but Houston's finest Trae and Z-Ro (ABN), now they would bring in a big fanbase
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greeby
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,088
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Post by greeby on Nov 7, 2008 5:13:59 GMT -5
Then maybe it's time to overhaul the faces. Find out what it is the audience likes about the cool heels and adapt it to the faces. The whole white meat aww shucks overgrown boy scout thing just ain't gonna cut it in this day and age. The sad thing is, WWF knew that over 10 years ago and Vince went on TV and stated just that. What the hell happened? My theory is that while he did what was right for business and relished being on top of the wrestling world again. I think Vince deep down wishes he could have got there under his own vision. The numbers were never going to be as high as the Monday Night War but they remained fairly steady as most of the major names from that era were still around for a few years. But as they transitioned out it became all about the cookie-cutter heavyweights. Cena, Batista, Lashley when he was around. Those are the archetypes of what Vince wants his company to be about. And it's during their reign at the top that the numbers have steadily worsened.
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Post by Loki on Nov 7, 2008 6:25:34 GMT -5
Oh it's that time of the month again? Another "Heyman tells Vince how to save WWE, without even having a real long-term plan" article. Let's see: * WWE don't need to be "cutting edge", because it was the very same cutting-edgeness that brought the product into the very limbo it currently is in. * WWE DO need better character developement and promotion. Too bad Heyman has no idea about HOW to do it. * Bringing in a local celebrity for WrestleMania... Oh... so innovative! I'm sure Chingo Blingo will generate millions of buys and will usher a new boom. [who the smurf is Chingo Blingo again?] * D-X are faces. Miz & Morrison are heels. Heels should NEVER ever be cooler than faces. BTW, Miz and Morrison looked like a trillion bucks last monday. When was it the last time someone not called Shawn Michaels hit a Sweet Chin Music, complete with Tuning Up the Band?? See, Heyman is just saying what we have been saying for years. "Characters people care about". "better buildups" etc. Fine, but HOW, HOWThe current mainstream scene isn't offering too much to "borrow from" or to ride the coattails of, as it happened for Rock'n'Wrestling and Attitude Era. Wrestling was "cool" due to coincidences, and with the current fad of Combat Sports and Reality Crap, I don't see a whole lot of chances for Pro Wrestling. The loyal fanbase would enjoy a fresher approach and better characters, but the global audience won't give two shits about CM Punk or SuperDuper Wrestler #24, no matter how awesome and "real" the build-up can be. Because wrestling is again back in its niche. The days of 6s and 7s are gone and will hardly be back soon. But Heyman prefers to live under the impression HE would be able to solve things and bring wrestling back to the Glory Days. All that while sitting at home and telling Vince how inadequate he now is...
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Nov 7, 2008 11:15:34 GMT -5
Heels aren't supposed to be cool? What about heel Undertaker or heel Rock? Well granted, heel Rock has always been a total prick, especially Hollywood Rock. (Yay! Hooray! That's where we live!! We in Canada!!--SHUT UP!!) ;D Oh, the wonderful memories you just brought up. It's amazing how the Rock was able to be so cool yet get an entire arena to boo the living hell out of him. God, I miss Hollywood Rock.
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Post by FurryMan on Nov 7, 2008 11:36:02 GMT -5
Oh it's that time of the month again? Another "Heyman tells Vince how to save WWE, without even having a real long-term plan" article. Let's see: * WWE don't need to be "cutting edge", because it was the very same cutting-edgeness that brought the product into the very limbo it currently is in. * WWE DO need better character developement and promotion. Too bad Heyman has no idea about HOW to do it. * Bringing in a local celebrity for WrestleMania... Oh... so innovative! I'm sure Chingo Blingo will generate millions of buys and will usher a new boom. [who the smurf is Chingo Blingo again?] * D-X are faces. Miz & Morrison are heels. Heels should NEVER ever be cooler than faces. BTW, Miz and Morrison looked like a trillion bucks last monday. When was it the last time someone not called Shawn Michaels hit a Sweet Chin Music, complete with Tuning Up the Band?? See, Heyman is just saying what we have been saying for years. "Characters people care about". "better buildups" etc. Fine, but HOW, HOWThe current mainstream scene isn't offering too much to "borrow from" or to ride the coattails of, as it happened for Rock'n'Wrestling and Attitude Era. Wrestling was "cool" due to coincidences, and with the current fad of Combat Sports and Reality Crap, I don't see a whole lot of chances for Pro Wrestling. The loyal fanbase would enjoy a fresher approach and better characters, but the global audience won't give two 0987654321s about CM Punk or SuperDuper Wrestler #24, no matter how awesome and "real" the build-up can be. Because wrestling is again back in its niche. The days of 6s and 7s are gone and will hardly be back soon. But Heyman prefers to live under the impression HE would be able to solve things and bring wrestling back to the Glory Days. All that while sitting at home and telling Vince how inadequate he now is... I gotta quote this, because it's my EXACT thoughts on the matter.
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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on Nov 7, 2008 11:38:21 GMT -5
Although by and large I think Paul E has the right idea, I am noticing that he does tend to blog this exact same thing every month. It's nothing new at this point, and obviously WWE either isn't reading or they aren't caring. Either way, he should move on to the next topic.
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Nov 7, 2008 11:43:43 GMT -5
SAVE_US.PAUL? If only nah not Chingo Bling he ain't that popular... but Houston's finest Trae and Z-Ro (ABN), now they would bring in a big fanbase No Rap... Rap Bad... ZZ Top is Local.Vince Likes ZZ Top.... Perfect Fit.
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Post by spacepope316 on Nov 7, 2008 12:01:44 GMT -5
I think they need to really shake things up for once and see where things lie.
I know its not WWE's fault but it went wrong but when they turned Regal into King of The Ring and pushed him as a threat to the champion they stumbled onto something that actually worked.
I think they should wait until the next 3 hour Raw and instead of keeping the existing storylines and fueds they should just put matches on that arent ones you'd expect. I understand that they might be kind of heatless as there is no backstory but they always seems to stumble onto the next big superstar that gets the viewers back in instead of picking who its going to be.
Stone Cold got the King Of The Ring win because HHH messed up and he ran with it.
The Rock was a blue chipper and was getting "Die Rocky Die" chants. Let him go heel and they were onto something.
Even Cena who I am not a fan of came in a blue chipper boring character. Would have gotten future endeavoured if it wasnt for the halloween edition of Smackdown where he shows up as Vanilla Ice. Then they gave him B2/Redd Dog and they ran with it. Soon he was a heat machine. Turn him face making him a marine and even though he is the biggest face he just doesnt work as the flag waving good guy.
I dont think the second generation stable thing is going to work either purely because the modern day fan doesnt care who their dads were. Hell the only one I can remember actually watching is Million Dollar Man.
Also stuff like having Regal/Burchill team up because they are British is just lazy.
Personally Burchill to ECW and Katie Lea to Smackdown. Let the Ripper and his C4 go against Matt Hardy and Finlay that would get me to watch the show.
Also Katie Lea vs Natalya/Victoria for the Diva's belt instead of Mrs Undertaker.
Get the Stampede Bulldogs up onto Smackdown and have them kick ass.
My other idea is instead of them having 3 shows that are very much alike why not have ECW as the rougher sloppier show we see the up and comers take on guys like Finlay etc. Smackdown can be the kid friendly one where we have Cena give everyone Salutes and the Khali Kiss Cam and on Raw make it more rock n roll. Hell have some live music acts during the matches.
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Nov 7, 2008 14:05:10 GMT -5
My other idea is instead of them having 3 shows that are very much alike why not have ECW as the rougher sloppier show we see the up and comers take on guys like Finlay etc. Smackdown can be the kid friendly one where we have Cena give everyone Salutes and the Khali Kiss Cam and on Raw make it more rock n roll. Hell have some live music acts during the matches. Like KISS in WCW?
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Nov 7, 2008 14:18:18 GMT -5
I actually find HBK and HHH to come off a lot cooler then Miz/Morrison and I think todays youth should too. If you want to be like the Miz I feel very bad for you. As far as "hip" wrestlers, Heyman is right... HHH, HBK, Batista, Taker, Jericho, Matt Hardy, are not hip. Who is hip is CM Punk, Cena, Orton, Edge, and MVP if they would use him right. Well, that's the point, they're heels. As Lance Storm said, the heel isn't supposed to be the cool guy, or he makes the face look like an idiot. Which is pretty much what Miz and Morrision do. ooops. lol
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