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Post by indymadman on Jan 1, 2009 18:47:33 GMT -5
Bare with me here.. I know that if wrestling had continuity, the world would most certainly explode trying to piece the logic together... But there is one thing that has bothered me for 20 years... dare call it an obsession. Look at this picture:  What's wrong with it? There is a certain title around the waist of one of the greatest heels of my generation... yet no where can it's listing be found due to a hyprocaticle WWE machine. Yes, I want the WWE to rewrite the record books to show Dibiase as a former WWF World Champ... right after Andre the Giant. It's not like they didn't recognize him as champ! For those of you with great memories.... the was WWF Superstars on 2/13/88 where they had an interview with Dibiase as world champion... and then a few days later on 2/22/88 the ole' Fink himself introduced Dibiase during his tag match with Andrew against Hulk and Bam Bam as the NEW WWF Champion! Sure, Tunney stripped him that same show... but he STRIPPED him of the title... the title that he had. We know that any other champion in the history of wrestling that was stripped of a title was ALSO recognized as the champ... Handing, or Surrending titles isn't or wasn't a new concept, even then. Ivan Koloff was given the Mid-Atlantic (which was a major title in the early-mid 80's ironically also held by Debiase) title by Dick Slater on TV! In WCW, the second and once largest recognized company has it's share of "giving, surrending, and finding" recognized championships as well. Nov 1. 1999- Scott Hall was GIVEN the TV Title for no reason... of course shortly after that on 2/16/00 Duggan picked up the title out of the trash, where Hall put it, and started defending the title and was then recognized as the champ... On July 5th, 1999 David Flair was given the US title... Ok Ok these are exactly WORLD TITLES.... However! Jeff Jarrett was given the WCW World Title on May 22nd 2000, stripped of that title... and on May 29th, the title was GIVEN to Flair on TV! Ok Ok, some of you are saying... that's WCW... not WWF/E... Well then... June 21 1999, on WWF TV, Mideon asked if he could HAVE the European Title that Shane had... Shane was distracted and said sure... thus Mideon was the new European champ... speaking of the European title... Jarrett gave this title to Mark Henry on Aug 23, 1999 as a return of a favor... yes, he surrendered the title... Ok Ok... those aren't WORLD TITLEs and those were LONG LONG AGO.... But... On Sept. 2nd, 2002... Ric Flair GAVE HHH THE WWE WORLD TITLE... handed it over to him... right there on live TV... What do ALL OF THESE SURRENDERINGS HAVE IN COMMON? They were ALL RECOGNIZED as title reigns! It's time for the WWE/F to recognize Ted Dibiase for what he is... a former world champion... if they can recognize the Rockers as former tag champs, they can give Ted his due when he, hopefully, goes into the Hall of Fame this year. Oh... and please don't say "Andre actually surrendered the WWF Tag Team Championship" (yes.... he said those words on that Main Event... twice..." because Mene Gene clarified that he was surrendering the world title... |
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Post by Robbymac on Jan 1, 2009 18:53:45 GMT -5
They don't recognize the Rockers as former tag champs.
And in kayfabe the President said he wasn't recognizing the title reign, so it didn't happen. Sorry.
Sept. 2nd, 2002 it was Eric Bischoff who presented the World Title. It was a newly created title that was being awarded by the authority figure
I'd be against retroactively recognizing title reigns.
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Post by Aziraphale on Jan 1, 2009 18:57:51 GMT -5
They recognise Orton, who was given the WWE title after Cena was injured only to lose it a few minutes later to Trips. Sure, he won it back at the end of the night, but they still acknowledge the brief reign where he was gifted the title.
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theshowstoppa
Don Corleone
This is why I like Brooke.
Posts: 1,296
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Post by theshowstoppa on Jan 1, 2009 19:01:48 GMT -5
To be fair, RVD and Taker should be a 2 time and a 5 (?) time WWE champions, because of the match where Taker was pinned, ref didn't see his foot on the rope, announced RVD as the NEW WWE Champion, taker complains, restrats, pins RVD, and is announced as the NEW WWE Champion.
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Post by indymadman on Jan 1, 2009 19:02:04 GMT -5
I know the President said the wasn't recognizing the title reign... hence he wasn't recognized... I'm stating a point that he SHOULD be recognized!
Flair, Bishcoff, whoever... the World title was AWARDED the title... HHH beat NOBODY for it... at least the WWF made up the IC title tourney that Patterson "won." Why did they make it up? Because AWARDING somebody a title, especially a World title, shouldn't be allowed.
Titles are "retroactively" given all the time (and taken away)... I respect your opinion of not liking it though.
Regarding the Rockers... on the back of their figures they list them as former WWF and AWA tag champs. I know that doesn't mean anything... Ric Flair will also be the first to tell you he's a 17 time world champ (Puerto Rico incident I believe)....
This is just my opinion... I think he should be recognized as a former world champ.
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Post by indymadman on Jan 1, 2009 19:04:01 GMT -5
To be fair, RVD and Taker should be a 2 time and a 5 (?) time WWE champions, because of the match where Taker was pinned, ref didn't see his foot on the rope, announced RVD as the NEW WWE Champion, taker complains, restrats, pins RVD, and is announced as the NEW WWE Champion. True, but it was restarted... thus a continued match (like Jericho and HHH back before jericho really won the world title). I forgot about the Orton/HHH world title situation... that would be another example... |
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Post by seamonsters on Jan 1, 2009 19:09:58 GMT -5
... where it was awarded by an authority figure.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jan 1, 2009 19:19:56 GMT -5
Regarding the Rockers... on the back of their figures they list them as former WWF and AWA tag champs. I know that doesn't mean anything... Ric Flair will also be the first to tell you he's a 17 time world champ (Puerto Rico incident I believe).... Technically, the Rockers are former WWF Tag Team Champions. They never held them together, but both Shawn Michaels and Marty Janetty are former Champions. (Janetty held it for exactly one week in 1994 with the 123 Kid.) |
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 1, 2009 19:23:48 GMT -5
the World title was AWARDED the title... HHH beat NOBODY for it... Yeah he did. He beat Taker the week before for the number one contendership to the Undisputed Title. When Lesnar refused to defend it on RAW by signing with Smackdown, he forfeited half of the title to his next opponent, Triple H. |
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Post by lildude8218 on Jan 1, 2009 19:27:36 GMT -5
They recognise Orton, who was given the WWE title after Cena was injured only to lose it a few minutes later to Trips. Sure, he won it back at the end of the night, but they still acknowledge the brief reign where he was gifted the title. That was a forfeit situation. |
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Post by Robbymac on Jan 1, 2009 23:30:58 GMT -5
I know the President said the wasn't recognizing the title reign... hence he wasn't recognized... I'm stating a point that he SHOULD be recognized! Flair, Bishcoff, whoever... the World title was AWARDED the title... HHH beat NOBODY for it... at least the WWF made up the IC title tourney that Patterson "won." Why did they make it up? Because AWARDING somebody a title, especially a World title, shouldn't be allowed. Titles are "retroactively" given all the time (and taken away)... I respect your opinion of not liking it though. Regarding the Rockers... on the back of their figures they list them as former WWF and AWA tag champs. I know that doesn't mean anything... Ric Flair will also be the first to tell you he's a 17 time world champ (Puerto Rico incident I believe).... This is just my opinion... I think he should be recognized as a former world champ. There's a big difference between Flair and Bischoff. Bischoff is the "authority figure" so therefore he can award titles. This happens all the time. I don't think the AWA ever held tournaments for vacant titles, they just presented the belt to the number one challenger. its also how it works in boxing. The only precedence in WWE would be the Jarrett-Henry incident in 1999. However since the authority figure at the time allowed it to take place its also a different situation. Would DiBiase even want this? I somehow doubt he'd want to be a former World Champion when his only "reign" saw him not win a match to win the title, lose a match to lose the title, or have any title defenses. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2009 2:19:09 GMT -5
I know the President said the wasn't recognizing the title reign... hence he wasn't recognized... I'm stating a point that he SHOULD be recognized! Flair, Bishcoff, whoever... the World title was AWARDED the title... HHH beat NOBODY for it... at least the WWF made up the IC title tourney that Patterson "won." Why did they make it up? Because AWARDING somebody a title, especially a World title, shouldn't be allowed. Titles are "retroactively" given all the time (and taken away)... I respect your opinion of not liking it though. Regarding the Rockers... on the back of their figures they list them as former WWF and AWA tag champs. I know that doesn't mean anything... Ric Flair will also be the first to tell you he's a 17 time world champ (Puerto Rico incident I believe).... This is just my opinion... I think he should be recognized as a former world champ. actually Flair is like a 22 time champ at least i believe... he's had way more than WWE says... not sure why they don't acknowledge some |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 2, 2009 2:31:07 GMT -5
I know the President said the wasn't recognizing the title reign... hence he wasn't recognized... I'm stating a point that he SHOULD be recognized! Flair, Bishcoff, whoever... the World title was AWARDED the title... HHH beat NOBODY for it... at least the WWF made up the IC title tourney that Patterson "won." Why did they make it up? Because AWARDING somebody a title, especially a World title, shouldn't be allowed. Titles are "retroactively" given all the time (and taken away)... I respect your opinion of not liking it though. Regarding the Rockers... on the back of their figures they list them as former WWF and AWA tag champs. I know that doesn't mean anything... Ric Flair will also be the first to tell you he's a 17 time world champ (Puerto Rico incident I believe).... This is just my opinion... I think he should be recognized as a former world champ. actually Flair is like a 22 time champ at least i believe... he's had way more than WWE says... not sure why they don't acknowledge some I'm pretty sure Flair himself doesn't recognize the other times, so that would be why.  |
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Jan 2, 2009 2:41:22 GMT -5
With the case of the Rockers, I think it was partially because Vince felt their match with the Harts was unairable (not sure if that's a word) and partially because their plans changed because of Neidhart agreeing to stay with the WWF. Instead of redoing the match another time, they decided they would keep the belts on the Harts.
As far as DiBiase situation goes, I think they originally wanted him to win the title at WrestleMania IV. When WWE decided to do the title tournament, the Hogan/Andre double elimination was pretty much always the plan. The idea to give Randy Savage the title was truly something done close to the last minute. As to why they decided to state that DiBiase was never actually the champ: I think WWF wanted to emphasize that you can't buy the WWF title from someone.
I think it would be kind of silly to retroactively honor someone as being a champion. Dale Gagner tried to retroactively recognize Hogan as AWA champ, but he had no right to do that. Some crappers can probably think of some example where someone might have retroactively been recognized as a title holder, but after 21 years? I just don't see why it matters after that long.
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theshowstoppa
Don Corleone
This is why I like Brooke.
Posts: 1,296
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Post by theshowstoppa on Jan 3, 2009 13:06:06 GMT -5
To be fair, RVD and Taker should be a 2 time and a 5 (?) time WWE champions, because of the match where Taker was pinned, ref didn't see his foot on the rope, announced RVD as the NEW WWE Champion, taker complains, restrats, pins RVD, and is announced as the NEW WWE Champion. True, but it was restarted... thus a continued match (like Jericho and HHH back before jericho really won the world title). I forgot about the Orton/HHH world title situation... that would be another example... But Jericho actually left the ring, was announced as the NEW WWF Champ, and Hebner reversed the decision, but the referee DID NOT reverse the decision in RVD/Taker, he just rang the bell, meaning, to me, it's a "new" match. |
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