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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Dec 29, 2008 0:37:57 GMT -5
When I hear "paid their dues" I think of guys that have spent several years in the business and fought through injuries and put on some damn good matches and are generally looked up to by other wrestlers. I don't think of some chick who's spent three years in the business, two of which were just her coasting by on her looks, and the other year putting on sub-par matches with much more talented women.
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Bedlam LadyD
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Post by Bedlam LadyD on Dec 29, 2008 0:42:26 GMT -5
I personally couldn't stand her when she first popped up, and to be honest, it wasn't until fairly recently that I could even stand her on my screen. She doesn't hold a candle to Joshi, to women like MisChif, Sara Del Rey, or most of the Shimmer set, or a few in the Diva locker room. BUT, she's capable of putting on a match for a few minutes, and has kept the attention of some of the fans. She's better then Candice, and definitely better then Michelle. She's taken some pretty damn hard hits since she started, and from what I've heard she's a damn good person in the back. She may not be the best there is to be offered, but there are far more damaging women to have in her place.
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Post by TheShowStoppin Classic JBHENDU on Dec 29, 2008 2:25:13 GMT -5
I'm a huge Kelly Kelly fan and she has improved a lot and done more than enough to "pay her dues."
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 29, 2008 2:32:37 GMT -5
I'm a huge Kelly Kelly fan and she has improved a lot and done more than enough to "pay her dues." Maybe after she lives on raw potatoes or JBL shoves a toothbrush up her ass others will see things this way.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Dec 29, 2008 2:35:18 GMT -5
I'm a huge Kelly Kelly fan and she has improved a lot and done more than enough to "pay her dues." Maybe after she lives on raw potatoes or JBL shoves a toothbrush up her ass others will see things this way. If you could write a fanfic about this I would read it.....with my pants down.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Dec 29, 2008 2:36:38 GMT -5
Back when she was on ECW, I happened to tune in one week to see her do a hurricanrana and some other moves very smoothly and seamlessly. I was impressed. She has worked hard to perform in the ring. Her gymnastics background can only help her in my opinion.
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Post by Red 'n' Black Reggie on Dec 29, 2008 7:21:09 GMT -5
i think any wrestler who regularly performs on the road is constantly paying their dues. 99.9% of people couldn't stomach it, so i respect just about all the WWE lockerroom.
and yeah, kelly's improving a hell of a lot. her storyline with kane has shown that she's actually learned to act, which is cool.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2008 8:56:10 GMT -5
While yes, Kelly's improving, I think she's getting more credit than she may deserve. Something tells me we're going to get a repeat of what happened with Michelle or Candice where a woman who formerly had no talent whatsoever got to the top of the pack out of improving, and only when it was realized that she's tolerable but not great did she start to lose momentum (and lots of it).
Is she the worst? Definitely not. The best? Definitely not.
There's some other women who have done FAR more over the course of their careers to pay their dues (prime examples being Jillian, Melina, Beth, Mickie and Victoria), and as such I really don't believe that Kelly deserves any particularly great recognition for it.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 29, 2008 9:25:31 GMT -5
You missed the point by a mile forget it man Nope, I understand your point (unless it's not 'the hardships associated with hazing will weed out those who don't want to be in and make those who do stronger'), I just think you're wrong. In your original post, some of your examples were carrying the lead heels bags through airports and sleeping in POS cars on the way to events. If those are your definition of paying dues, I disagree with every notion that they somehow make someone a better performer. Traveling around a territory performing does make someone a better worker, regardless of whether they're driving a Yugo or an Escalade while they're doing it. Learning from those who came before them makes them a better performer, whether they carry their bags through the airport or not. Getting a stiff shot from a cane? That may show a new person how physical the business is, but it doesn't teach how to work a crowd or how to safely perform moves. It's just a women getting smashed in the face by a Singapore Cane, nothing more. If she's a better performer, it's not because she got hit with it. Many guys who went through the indy scene are better workers than a lot of the WWE bred performers, but not because they slept in bad cars or played gofers, but because they plied their craft in different venues against different opponents. Dues, in regards to them being random hazings or hardships either imposed by other performers or in the mind of the smark, had jack to do with it. It was their willingness to learn and perform their craft in a wide variety of places. Those that call doing that "paying their dues" are right if they attribute that to getting better. It's that, not getting your arm broken by Bob Holly on sole account that he has more time in the business. Those things are there because the old guard is perpetuating it on the new guys for their own enjoyment.
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Post by Marc4u23 on Dec 29, 2008 11:15:01 GMT -5
So she does a few gymnast spots and she's suddenly improved vastly? She still can't lock up, sell emotion, or have any semblance of appropriate facial expressions.
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Post by stinger on Dec 29, 2008 11:36:45 GMT -5
I respect her for the hard work she has put in, but she still is the same hideously ugly personality on the screen who has horrible matches. I'm not a fan yet. I recall you not liking her from the start because she "dresses like a prostitute," I believe. Does she really dress that much more provocatively than other Divas?
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Post by VengeanceGOD on Dec 29, 2008 11:42:13 GMT -5
Kelly Kelly when ECW began was a terrible actress, terrible dancer, and lost a wrestling match to her own bra. Now she can actually sell a storyline and put on somewhat interesting matches.
Besides, if paying your dues means suffering, then I have to repeat that she lost a match to her own bra on national television. On the worst single episode of any televised wrestling in recent memory, at that.
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Dec 29, 2008 12:06:45 GMT -5
I respect her for the hard work she has put in, but she still is the same hideously ugly personality on the screen who has horrible matches. I'm not a fan yet. I recall you not liking her from the start because she "dresses like a prostitute," I believe. Does she really dress that much more provocatively than other Divas? The majority of them dress like no self respecting woman should, but Kelly's lack of personality adds to the whole disgusting nature of it. Compensating by exposing yourself is not a good thing.
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Frank Castle
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Post by Frank Castle on Dec 29, 2008 15:27:31 GMT -5
You missed the point by a mile forget it man Nope, I understand your point (unless it's not 'the hardships associated with hazing will weed out those who don't want to be in and make those who do stronger'), I just think you're wrong. In your original post, some of your examples were carrying the lead heels bags through airports and sleeping in POS cars on the way to events. If those are your definition of paying dues, I disagree with every notion that they somehow make someone a better performer. Traveling around a territory performing does make someone a better worker, regardless of whether they're driving a Yugo or an Escalade while they're doing it. Learning from those who came before them makes them a better performer, whether they carry their bags through the airport or not. Getting a stiff shot from a cane? That may show a new person how physical the business is, but it doesn't teach how to work a crowd or how to safely perform moves. It's just a women getting smashed in the face by a Singapore Cane, nothing more. If she's a better performer, it's not because she got hit with it. Many guys who went through the indy scene are better workers than a lot of the WWE bred performers, but not because they slept in bad cars or played gofers, but because they plied their craft in different venues against different opponents. Dues, in regards to them being random hazings or hardships either imposed by other performers or in the mind of the smark, had jack to do with it. It was their willingness to learn and perform their craft in a wide variety of places. Those that call doing that "paying their dues" are right if they attribute that to getting better. It's that, not getting your arm broken by Bob Holly on sole account that he has more time in the business. Those things are there because the old guard is perpetuating it on the new guys for their own enjoyment. Couldn't have said it better.
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PKO
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Post by PKO on Dec 29, 2008 15:47:20 GMT -5
Just wanted to give my two cents on Miss Kelly Kelly Kelly Kelly Kelly. Everything is a matter of taste mind you.
IN-RING She has most certainly improved (although she was dreadful when she started so she couldn't have got worse) however until I see her in the ring for longer than 3 minutes, or she does something that impresses me I'll still say she's near the bottom of the divas division. The last match I saw of her's which lasted a reasonable time was the handicap match she had in ECW with Layla and Victoria and that was not very good. Similarly, I saw nothing impressive from her in her matches with Beth Phoenix (except maybe her springboard arm drag which, to her credit, she did well). These days she's usually in tag matches which last for five minutes, and she's in there for the last two when she comes in, does a few acrobatic moves then pins someone. I'd put women like Candice, Layla, Maria and even WC Forums Super Villain Michelle McCool infront of her (as well as the obvious ones like Beth, Victoria, Natalya etc.) because I've seen those women in matches where the in-ring stuff is good, the story telling is good and so on. I've yet to see a Kelly Kelly match when I've gone "wow, that was pretty impressive". I'm sure I could enjoy one of her matches but I just haven't seen her click with anyone. Layla and Michelle McCool are not amazing competitors but they put on a nice match, as did Candice and Kristal.
ACTING/MIC SKILLS Her acting range is also pretty nul and void, although she's not particularly worse than any of the other ladies (except Maryse and Layla who exude charisma). I've seen people post pictures before trying to back up the fact that she can show emotion etc. and she can, everyone can, she's just not very successful at doing so. Basically, she is not a good actress. But neither was Trish when she started and by the end she was one of the best in the business so she could improve. It doesn't really matter anyway at the moment, all she does is go out there and point and people like her cause she's a pretty girl. Which brings me to...
LOOKS Appearence wise she's not a bad looking lady (except for those cold dead eyes) and she has a nice (albeit skinny) figure. Plus she's young so...well it doesn't hurt does it?
Overall, she's definately improved. If it weren't for Maryse doing a 180 and becoming one of the most entertaining divas in the company I'd have said she was the most improved diva of the year. She needs to focus on tightening everything up, as her offense is still quite cringe-worthy at times and a more individual move-set would help (it seems like every face diva is all about the hurricanrana's and cartwheels and blah). But yep, improvement is noticable.
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Post by derrtaysouth95 on Dec 29, 2008 15:58:46 GMT -5
paying your dues today is not the same as paying your dues 10 years ago.
that being said, I have no problems with what she said.
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Post by Snitsky on Dec 29, 2008 17:12:13 GMT -5
When I hear "paid their dues" I think of guys that have spent several years in the business and fought through injuries and put on some damn good matches and are generally looked up to by other wrestlers. I don't think of some chick who's spent three years in the business, two of which were just her coasting by on her looks, and the other year putting on sub-par matches with much more talented women. this good sir speaks the truth - fair dinkum that she is improving in the ring but she still has a long way to go , people like jillian,katie and mickie who roughed it out for many years on the indy circuit are women IMO who have paid dues
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Post by majesty on Dec 29, 2008 17:13:54 GMT -5
I respect her for the hard work she has put in, but she still is the same hideously ugly personality on the screen who has horrible matches. I'm not a fan yet. I recall you not liking her from the start because she "dresses like a prostitute," I believe. Does she really dress that much more provocatively than other Divas? Yes, god forbid a character that started as an exhibitionist dresses to expose more than a person normally would.
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Dave at the Movies
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Dec 29, 2008 18:13:24 GMT -5
Paying your dues is not what it use to be in wrestling. Most smaller guys who have to get big either by steroids or whatever now are usually the ones that have to pay really big dues.
Big strong guys who are athletic and hot athletic chicks like Kelly Kelly pay the developmental dues. They basically get to skip a huge due paying step because they are gifted with really good bodies.
That is just the way it is. Nothing about the wrestling industry is fair.
Saying that I really like Kelly Kelly. She has picked up on pro wrestling really fast and I think she will be around for a long time considering she is only about 21.
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Post by shamana on Dec 30, 2008 13:35:47 GMT -5
Well, imo she's been around for a few years and she's seen some of the business, so she's not exactly a newb anymore. Has anyone ever called her that?
On the other hand, if there were an unofficial backroom pecking order among the Divas, she shouldn't be anywhere near the top. Off the top of my head, I'd put her somewhere around... eh, Layla? Maybe around the middle line, or slightly under it as I don't see an area where she is particularly impressive. Then again, as "D"D-D D just wrote, she has plenty of time to improve
BTW, someone mentioned Jillian as a diva who paid her dues? Has she done something before her WWE time?
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