efarns
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,273
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Post by efarns on Jan 31, 2009 18:59:48 GMT -5
This occurred to me while watching DDP as La Parka put one over on the NWO.
The NWO was portrayed at first, very much like the WWF was invading WCW. They toned that down a little later, but the impression was strong enough for the WWF to sue. When it came down to the key battles on PPV, it seems like WCW always won. Piper beat Hogan twice. The Steiners beat The Outsiders for the tag belts. Sting won at Starcade. Whenever they had the match for control of Monday Nitro, WCW won that too.
So I was thinking about that, compared to the Invasion angle, where The Alliance was beaten at every turn, too. The main difference I can think of is that NWO was built up as a big threat, while WCW and The Alliance weren't. But are the angles really all that much different?
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 31, 2009 19:09:02 GMT -5
This occurred to me while watching DDP as La Parka put one over on the NWO. The NWO was portrayed at first, very much like the WWF was invading WCW. They toned that down a little later, but the impression was strong enough for the WWF to sue. When it came down to the key battles on PPV, it seems like WCW always won. Piper beat Hogan twice. The Steiners beat The Outsiders for the tag belts. Sting won at Starcade. Whenever they had the match for control of Monday Nitro, WCW won that too. So I was thinking about that, compared to the Invasion angle, where The Alliance was beaten at every turn, too. The main difference I can think of is that NWO was built up as a big threat, while WCW and The Alliance weren't. But are the angles really all that much different? You already nailed what made them so radically different. nWo: Introduced and built up as a legitimate threat. Invasion: A joke. |
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Post by Single H on Jan 31, 2009 19:15:09 GMT -5
The WCW guys did go over the NWO guys at big match PPVs but they never won cleanely looking the WCW guys look weak. There was always a run in or a twist which meant it was a screjob ending (classic example Sting made to look weak at Starrcade. Meant Hogan lost onon of the NWO heat)
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Post by parder on Jan 31, 2009 19:19:15 GMT -5
I agree with the credible threat aspect of the nWo compared to the Invasion angle. But at the same time with regard to the victories for WCW guys during the nWo storyline, none of those victories were portrayed in a way that put over the WCW guys, especially Sting at Starrcade 97, which was absolutely critical one because it was the highest drawing main event feud in the company's history. But this has been gone over many times, and for a contemporary example all you need to do is watch TNA at the moment  |
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Post by Single H on Jan 31, 2009 19:28:15 GMT -5
I agree with the credible threat aspect of the nWo compared to the Invasion angle. But at the same time with regard to the victories for WCW guys during the nWo storyline, none of those victories were portrayed in a way that put over the WCW guys, especially Sting at Starrcade 97, which was absolutely critical one because it was the highest drawing main event feud in the company's history. But this has been gone over many times, and for a contemporary example all you need to do is watch TNA at the moment Ya exactly |
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jan 31, 2009 19:46:47 GMT -5
The WCW guys did go over the NWO guys at big match PPVs but they never won cleanely looking the WCW guys look weak. There was always a run in or a twist which meant it was a screjob ending (classic example Sting made to look weak at Starrcade. Meant Hogan lost onon of the NWO heat) Actually DDP beat Randy Savage clean at Spring Stampede 97 and I don't really see anything wrong with a run-in, I mean the heels are trying to protect their boss. The faces usually fought off the interference and won most of the time, like Piper at Starrcade 96 and Luger on Nitro 8/4/97. |
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Post by i.Sarita.com on Jan 31, 2009 19:51:07 GMT -5
The WCW guys did go over the NWO guys at big match PPVs but they never won cleanely looking the WCW guys look weak. There was always a run in or a twist which meant it was a screjob ending (classic example Sting made to look weak at Starrcade. Meant Hogan lost onon of the NWO heat) Actually DDP beat Randy Savage clean at Spring Stampede 97 and I don't really see anything wrong with a run-in, I mean the heels are trying to protect their boss. The faces usually fought off the interference and won most of the time, like Piper at Starrcade 96 and Luger on Nitro 8/4/97. Yeah, I don't see how fighting off a heel run-in and winning makes you look weak. Wouldn't that make you look stronger for being able to fight off the interferance AND still win the match? More so than just winning the match against one guy? |
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Beans
Team Rocket
Posts: 921 
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Post by Beans on Jan 31, 2009 19:54:26 GMT -5
Invasion was really all the 'little guys' from WCW who didn't have a huge contract and who WWE could afford to pick up the wages for.
I know people will pipe up and claim that X, Y and Z were huge stars but really, none of them were, it were just those who Vince didn't mind picking up the contracts of, that's why it didn't work the angle besides how it was booked it was hardly enthralling in the first place.
Excuse me Vince if I don't crap myself with excitement with the thought of Hugh Morris on Raw. THE Hugh Morris? Oh slap me this must be a dream. Next you'll be telling me Lance Storm and Buff Bagwell are going to turn up? I cannot buy that PPV fast enough.
NWO at least had a good start because it was the three HUGE names.
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Post by Mantaurded on Jan 31, 2009 20:10:52 GMT -5
Remember Hugh Morris' Edge and Christian encounter.
"Hugh Morris? More like Hugh Suck!"
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efarns
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,273
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Post by efarns on Jan 31, 2009 20:32:09 GMT -5
So is WWF steamrolling the WCW midcard worse than WCW going over top names from the WWF?
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Beans
Team Rocket
Posts: 921
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Post by Beans on Jan 31, 2009 20:44:34 GMT -5
So is WWF steamrolling the WCW midcard worse than WCW going over top names from the WWF? If Vince had got the top names in invasion angle would be VERY different. |
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Post by Paul E. Funk on Jan 31, 2009 21:12:45 GMT -5
WWF's lack of patience killed the Invasion, if they had waited until a year after the Invasion occured (summer 2002) they'd have had Bischoff, nWo, Flair and eventually Steiner and Goldberg, they could have even hired Sid and Luger and maybe even Sting on short term contracts. Now those are some real WCW names and good enough and big enough to compete with the Austin, Rock, Takers of the WWF's.
Plus with that year in between it would have given the WWF a real chance to think the Invasion and brand-split through and evaluate the WCW undercard and their uses. I just think they completely jumped the gun and that was the single biggest mistake of the Invasion.
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Post by parder on Jan 31, 2009 22:22:55 GMT -5
I think they would have waited longer or at least given it a slower build had Triple H and Chris Benoit not got severe injuries in quick succession, which caused the Jericho/Benoit vs. Vince and the Two Man Power Trip main event feud to fizzle out. With Rock also out making movies they needed a fresh angle. So they had to go with the creatively cobbled together mess and the lack of star power they had at that stage, which didn't result in much benefit for many people in the end. They might have been able to keep it competitive for longer if they'd kept ECW separate from WCW as the tweener group taking pot shots at both sides, with Heyman as their leader.
One thing worthy of note in retrospect is that at the Invasion PPV Jeff Hardy probably had his first real break out singles match with RVD (which also started his passage into being super-over by 2002 onwards). This also led to the first ill fated Hardys break up by the end of the year.
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Post by Nic Nemeth on Jan 31, 2009 23:14:23 GMT -5
Had they waited a year for Flair, Bischoff, nWo, Goldberg, and hell even Sting, they would've had an awesome storyline.
Also HHH & HBK would be back from injury.
We could've saw:
Vince McMahon vs Eric Bischoff
Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair
The Rock vs Hulk Hogan
Shawn Michaels vs Sting
Stone Cold vs Goldberg
And the final bout would have been:
Triple H, Stone Cold, The Rock, Shawn Michaels, and Undertaker vs Sting, Hulk Hogan, Goldberg, Ric Flair, and Kevin Nash
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efarns
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,273
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Post by efarns on Feb 1, 2009 4:41:12 GMT -5
It seemed like they waited awhile to begin the Invasion. I got a little impatient waiting for the angle to get started.
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Post by Paul E. Funk on Feb 1, 2009 5:54:28 GMT -5
Vince bought WCW in late March, Lance Storm made the first WCW in ring run in late May. That's two months they waited to kick things off.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Feb 1, 2009 7:17:01 GMT -5
Despite not having very many big names, it still could have been handled better. I'll break it down real quick. Firstly, they had Booker T and Diamond Dallas Page who general wrestling fans saw as equals to the WWF's main eventers. So what did they do? Buried the living shit out of them so they couldn't stand toe-to-toe with the WWF guys. Brilliant.  Secondly, NO ONE wanted to see Steve Austin lead the WCW side as a douchebag heel. The pop he got on the RAW before the InVasion is all the evidence needed there. Steve Austin WAS the WWF. Whoever booked the heel turn had their head up their ass. Austin even states to this day that he really regrets that heel run. Also, ECW had no business being teamed with WCW or being "owned" by Stephanie McMahon. Yeah, they got owned alright. It would have been more beneficial for everyone involved had they been used as a rogue group that wasn't taking anyone's side. Establish the WWF as the clear-cut faces, WCW as the heels, and ECW as tweeners. DON'T BOOK THE WWF'S OPPOSITION TO LOOK LIKE IDIOTS. I about puked when I saw Raven and Tommy Dreamer among others swaying back and forth singing "Wind Beneath My Wings". Seriously, what the hell. The only thing awesome about this segment was Rob Van Dam leaning against the turnbuckle at the back of the ring not singing and looking like he'd rather be anywhere else. At least one of the old ECW guys knew this was a slap in their faces. Finally, don't send WWF wrestlers to the Alliance side just to pad their roster. It got so bad towards the end that most of the featured members of the Alliance were guys who had been established as WWF guys for years. Maybe if they hadn't buried the WCW side they wouldn't have needed to do that. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 1, 2009 8:24:47 GMT -5
Of course, RD tells the story of jealous WWF wrestlers, who were afraid that WCW guys might take their spots.
Of course, those guys were ignoring the simple fact that, if the angle really worked well, they'd all make more money than they could imagine.
What could've been cool is waiting on the Invasion, getting all the starpower in, and maybe, soon after, have some events in WCW hotbeds like Atlanta, where you'd have a more pro-WCW crowd and things like that.
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Post by glorydays on Feb 1, 2009 8:56:07 GMT -5
Eric Bischoff wasn't afraid to have Hogan, Hall, Nash, etc, look strong.
Vince McMahon did not want anyone associated with WCW to look strong.
That was the difference. Not that it mattered that much, as Booker T and DDP were the only top stars Vince brought over initially, and those two were hardly the wrestlers fans wanted to see.
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Post by nerdinitupagain on Feb 1, 2009 11:26:22 GMT -5
I'm so glad I didn't watch wrestling as soon as Vince bought WCW. I just stopped. Started again in 05 and got to miss this.
From what I gather, the only good thing I missed during the invasion was Heyman's worked shoot on Vince which I've got to see on Youtube.
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