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Post by Baixo Astral on May 31, 2005 7:35:32 GMT -5
Right... I'm not saying this as a mod, and I'm not generally the type to rant... and you can comment, email, or PM me if you want... just don't flame, for reasons that will become clear.
I love the wrestlecrap message board, and I've been here for quite a long time... I've made good friends, even met a poster in person for drinks (and corresponded with another, but the less said about that, the better)... I consider many of the people here to be good buddies, and I love hanging out in the off topic section and chatting... after all, the nBo MADE off topic!
However... I come here to talk about wrestling as well. I'm a long time fan, and although I can't focus on it so much now (work, life, commitments), I came here initially to talk about wrestling.
And I'm getting seriously burned out on the actual wrestling side of the board, especially now I'm working as a mod as well. It seems that a lot of the board has fallen into a negativity hole... people are throwing everything they can at a few chosen scapegoats (Lita, HHH, etc), and not many people actually propose any kind of solution.
I stopped reading Scott Keith's columns due to the surpassing negativity - now I'm getting to feel the same way about my favourite place on the whole internet. I miss Asics and DDD arguing - they weren't running around shouting 'WE'RE DOOMED, HHH, LITA, HANG 'EM BOTH. I HATE EVERYTHING' - they were actually debating/arguing, and if it got a bit too much sometimes, at least it was a debate. Most of what passes for debate, particularly in the WWE Current forum, seems to just be an excuse for flaming and disregarding the opinions of others.
I'm looking to enjoy talking to people about the current WWE product again - it isn't all bad, and to just say "Christy Sux, she'll never be good" is no use - tell me WHY she won't be any good. When Trish came in, she was as much use as a paper umbrella in a Florida rainstorm - now, lots of people love her. Ditto with Batista.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like to actually be able to debate with people here again, rather than running over the same few subjects again and again.
As I said, I'd be happy to talk to people about this... on the board, if you want to be civil and discuss this... by email, PM or AIM (thegoldenspike) if you have an issue.
Rant... is OVER!
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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on May 31, 2005 7:43:37 GMT -5
I agree with you, although I felt that last night's Raw was actually very positive for me. We saw the return of Psycho Victoria, the return of Snitsky (good for me, though admittedly a bad thing for others), some significant mic time from Val Venis, and a great match between Benoit and Edge (except for the ending).
Although I do point out what WWE does wrong, I will be the first to step up and admit it when they do something right! ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2005 8:11:02 GMT -5
I noticed the negativity started when the wrestlecrap forum started taking on more & more new members, it became less of a community and just another wrestling forum (In my eyes anyway)
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Post by Redneck Woman on May 31, 2005 8:18:08 GMT -5
Now, I'm a newer member so I can't really argue about what it used to be like. But the popularity of the Wrestlecrap site is definitely a reason for the popularity of this board. Problem with that is, along with the good people come the bad. I happen to be a diehard fan of WWE, I watch it through good times and bad. Maybe its just me, but I focus on the positive and on enjoying what I'm seeing. It takes me years sometimes to look back on something and see that it was on the lame end of things. Some people are critical of everything and exsist only to bring people down and to insult everything. I know I'm rambling, but I guess my point is that I feel the negative vibes too. I try to stay out of their way so I generally stick to posting in other areas. Just the opinion of a random crapper.
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Post by Maxnificent on May 31, 2005 8:53:07 GMT -5
I really do get annoyed by everyone's "let's only look for the negative and go on and on about it" attitude, as well as "let's all get on a bandwagon to like and not like people." Someone update me, do we still like Chris Benoit? Can I like Viscera yet?
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Post by tripleh on May 31, 2005 8:55:15 GMT -5
I totally agree.
I'm excited for the HHH v. Batista HIAC. I like the Diva Search. I think the ECW PPV is going to be great.
It's taboo around here to praise the WWE. I think the WWE is putting on WAY better shows than they did in 98-99. I'm happy with the direction of the company.
Maybe I'm just too old for this board.
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Post by Baixo Astral on May 31, 2005 8:56:31 GMT -5
Maxnificent just ¡KAPOW!ed the nail on the head... people don't want to see the positive. They only want the negative.
And what's with everyone that certain folks disagree with being slurred with shouts of 'MARK!' You're a MARK!'?
I'm a mark... I mark out frequently... I wish I was more easily surprised, and didn't find myself drawn here and to news sites, so I could be more surprised.
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Post by guardianangel on May 31, 2005 9:00:10 GMT -5
I'll tell you what I don't like - pre-emptive bashing. WWE announces something, and then everyone says how bad it will be months and weeks before it happens, for example, the new Diva search (OK, admittedly precedent has been set for that, maybe a bad example) The ECW PPV, and the month long draft lottery. Generally, I think people are taking wrestling a little too seriously (Not that it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously, but these guys need to lighten up juuuuust a little)
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Post by Baixo Astral on May 31, 2005 9:06:38 GMT -5
Eugene is a perfect example of this... people were bashing him long before he debuted.
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Post by Benjamin Boone on May 31, 2005 9:28:07 GMT -5
I think Redneck has made a very valid point. I, too, am a diehard WWE fan and always watch RAW and Smackdown and record them each week. I love to watch these athletes give it their all to make me mark out, laugh, and excited. There are some people here (and people all around in general) only watch wrestling to criticize it and complain of how it ain't like the glory days of NWA and all that. I just don't understand why anyone would be a fan of wrestling or anything if all they do is criticize and put the product down. So you ain't rambling redneck, I am in total agreeance with ya.
It's good to see a thread like this to break up the monotony of "Paul London should be champion right now!!!" or "HHH is satan!" or "Hosses are the devil, you like them, you suck!" talk I see every damn day. I know I am exaggerating probably on this, but good lord, if all you do is complain about how bad something is, what are you going to do to make it better? I think RD put it best when he said of how if you don't like something, drop it and move on (in that example of don't go to the McDonald's every day and complain after you finish your meal). Long story short, if you don't like the WWE or anything it presents, just don't watch it. Nobody is forcing you to watch it.
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Post by tripleh on May 31, 2005 9:33:19 GMT -5
The problem is everyone has a different idea about what wrestling SHOULD be.
I'm personally very satisfied with the current WWE product. For a long time I traded tapes. These days I enjoy WWE brand of pro wrestling. Some laughs, some bumps, some crap, some gold. It's give and take.
I think some people don't realize these guy ARE on the road all year. Sure it seems easy to book ONE good show. Try booking great shows once a week for 52 weeks straight.
I personally think the WWE has been on fire since Wrestlemania. I've enjoyed every RAW. I think the Gold Rush tornamnet did what it was supposed to...keep me interested.
I also like how they are building the ECW PPV. I'm happy they are holding off the returns of Sandman and Sabu until the PPV. I know I'm buying the show.
There is so much great stuff happening in the WWE to even complain about the few negatives. Go watch and older incarnation of WWE. Maybe it's different for me since I lived to tell about the squash match era.
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Post by whoopdeedoo on May 31, 2005 9:35:31 GMT -5
I still don't like Eugene though. That's one of the most offensive gimmicks ever seen in wrestling. Come on, a mentally retarded wrestler! Now, they could have done some good with this and kept him up with his winning streak, using old school moves and whatnot, but instead they had good ol Haitch come in and beat the crap out of him in a cage. OK, I can just imagine the booking team at work there:
Booker 1: Let's see, we need some time on Raw to fill, so what should we do?
Booker 2: I know, let's have Triple H beat a retard into a bloody mess!
Booker 1: Perfect.
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Post by krendall on May 31, 2005 9:41:42 GMT -5
I also agree that the constant bashing with no solution can get boring. If it's part of a more drawn-out topic, I do try to post solutions to the problems. Sometimes, however, the topic just calls for my two cents on a particular wrestler or event, and if those feelings are negative, that's what comes out. Also, I may have stated the same solution to a particular problem repeatedly before, so I don't really feel like typing it all out again.
BTW, in my defense, I try to avoid things like "Triple }{ is teh suX0r!!!!11!!" or whatever. I generally try to at least give a reason why I don't like the guy.
Finally, Spike, your sig rules.
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Post by Baixo Astral on May 31, 2005 9:48:06 GMT -5
I still don't like Eugene though. That's one of the most offensive gimmicks ever seen in wrestling. Come on, a mentally retarded wrestler! Now, they could have done some good with this and kept him up with his winning streak, using old school moves and whatnot, but instead they had good ol Haitch come in and beat the crap out of him in a cage. OK, I can just imagine the booking team at work there: Booker 1: Let's see, we need some time on Raw to fill, so what should we do? Booker 2: I know, let's have Triple H beat a retard into a bloody mess! Booker 1: Perfect. Yeah, I agree with you on the fact that the whole thing wound down quite badly... but for a while there, 'Gene was pretty over.
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Post by #Classic Hi-Definition X on May 31, 2005 9:53:42 GMT -5
I agree with ya Spike. It gets very sickening to come here and see endless topics with the headlines "HHH SUX" or "CENA SUX" or reading threads that eventually lead to people bashing HHH or Lita or whoever. And the one thing I really don't like about it is, they keep saying the same things over and over. We get it. You don't like whoever you don't like. Now move on and talk about something else.
It would be nice to see more positive threads here. Not that we all have to like the same things (because that wouldn't be much fun, now would it?), but we could talk about things we do like about WWE, which doesn't happen very often here.
In closing, this forum needs more positivity.
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Post by krendall on May 31, 2005 9:54:17 GMT -5
Eugene is a perfect example of this... people were bashing him long before he debuted. I don't think that's fair. No one really bashed Eugene so much as people thought that the WWE would handle him horribly. Remember, this was the company that two years earlier had done the gay wedding, Katie Vick, and Al Wilson. Sorry to be negative, but they hadn't really earned the benefit of the doubt. However, I think Eugene was wonderfully handled and I'm glad to see the creative team handle a delicate subject correctly.
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Post by Baixo Astral on May 31, 2005 10:05:39 GMT -5
I don't think that's fair. No one really bashed Eugene so much as people thought that the WWE would handle him horribly. Remember, this was the company that two years earlier had done the gay wedding, Katie Vick, and Al Wilson. Sorry to be negative, but they hadn't really earned the benefit of the doubt. However, I think Eugene was wonderfully handled and I'm glad to see the creative team handle a delicate subject correctly. Yeah, I see your point there, Krendall. It's the writers who were getting bashed, and I could see why they would get bashed... however, they handled this one well, and they've handled other debuts well (Carlito would be at a much higher level now, without his injury)... but still, people assume (some, non-jokingly), that if CM Punk signed, he'd instantly be MC Knup or something. The 'E does get SOME things right... or else, none of you would be watching
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Post by garyhartsgoatee on May 31, 2005 10:13:01 GMT -5
i agree with everything my good buddy (thats right spike, you are my "good buddy" and didnt even know it... kebbin marks UNITE!!) spike had to say... i've been reading for more than a year now... and i've been posting since the old board and i remember how much this place used to feel like a family... hell, there was even a little humor in the WWE Current section now and then... but this place has become a giant whine fest... now i have nothing against bashing HHH hell, i've done it a few times myself... but even i got bored with it after a while... im so sick of people jumping on bandwagons... "i hate cena's belt"..."i hate viscera"..."i love benoit"..."jericho is being held down" etc...etc...etc... look, there is nothing wrong with stating your opinion... but when you do so over... and over... and over again without saying anything different... then it's not debating, or even DISCUSSING wrestling... then it becomes like you have an agenda... never come into a discussion with an agenda, then you loose all chance of seeing things from another person's perspective... and that is crippling when discussing something (especialy wrestling) so i guess, in short, this place is still my favorite place on teh net... but that is probably because i dont come to the WWE section that often anymore... wow, my fingers hurt...
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Post by hbk619 - QUACK! on May 31, 2005 10:15:16 GMT -5
I agree there does seem to be alot of negativity, but as far as i go i try to back what i say up with some form of reason (although its not always a good reason!)
But there is sometimes some postivity, you've just got to look!
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Post by krendall on May 31, 2005 10:16:12 GMT -5
Yeah, I see your point there, Krendall. It's the writers who were getting bashed, and I could see why they would get bashed... however, they handled this one well, and they've handled other debuts well (Carlito would be at a much higher level now, without his injury)... but still, people assume (some, non-jokingly), that if CM Punk signed, he'd instantly be MC Knup or something. The 'E does get SOME things right... or else, none of you would be watching Actually, Carlito's kind of an odd case for me. While his character is AWESOME (even if it is a Razor Ramon rip-off), they don't let him put on good matches in the ring. They insist on his ring-work being that of a coward who can't really wrestle and he has to cheat like nuts to win. He's had one good match, and that was his second match against Rey Mysterio. Other than that, he barely gets in any offense and then cheats to get a victory.
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