How is being a midcarder bad?

[Joekishi]

I've read it many times here "if so-and-so isn't champ he's being wasted", and if they win the US/IC/Tag title it doesn't mean anything and they are being buried.

I don't get it, these guys toil in developmental, the indies, and around the world to get on WWE TV, and people are saying they are failures for not being in the main event and thus not meaning anything.

Blah, these guys worked hard to get where millions of others will never be.

Not everybody will be a main eventer or should be a main eventer.

Much Respect to the midcard

[Hanz Moleman]

I think its only bad when you have a division in such poor shape such as the midcard/tag team. The belts don't mean anything anymore.

[Space City's Own]

A lot of people think that because they don't understand that not everybody is supposed to make it to the top. There wouldn't be a main-event without a lower card. Also, if they're a mark for someone, they want them to be the biggest name in the business.

[CM Dazz]

I'd rather be a midcarder getting paid, than wrestling in front of 68 people a night for $25.

[parder]

It's certainly not a bad thing provided that enough creative attention is paid to that section of the card, and the relevant belts are booked in a way to be meaningful and draw the crowd's attention. Unfortunately we don't see as much of that as we used to. But even then, that's the often company's fault, not the wrestlers*, who should never be ashamed of being mid carders if that's their highest potential in terms of drawing money and skills in pro wrestling (character acting, psychology, charisma, promos, in ring abilities).

* It should be noted the wrestlers are normally free to pitch their own ideas.

[derrtaysouth95]

Being a mid-carder is perfectly acceptable imo.

Some people aren't ME quality.

[Jay Peas 42]

Well, what really matters is that the wrestler is over with the crowd, be he a midcarder, a jobber, or a main eventer. However, the mid card contains a lot of has beens and never weres.

[nonrev]

I just finished reading Jericho's book and I remember his discussing being in WCW and his whole angle with Goldberg.

Jericho was an over-midcarder who was trying to sell a feud against the over main-eventer Goldberg; however, because he was mid-card nobody in WCW gave him the chance to actually have his chance to be squashed by Goldberg on a PPV.

Granted that was WCW, but in watching the WWE in the past few years (especially since all brands are on every pay-per-view) its increasingly difficult for mid-carder to have the opportunity to escape their caste of midcarderdom. Their matches/promos are the ones cut short while we're waiting to see Randy Orton vs HHH for the ____ time.

You even have midcard lackeys for the main-eventers who have no time to get over on their own but only to be the guys jobbing for their main-event leaders (see Priceless, Hawkings & Ryder). The last lackeys I remember breaking out of the midcard and then staying in the main-event were Batista and Orton and that was nearly 5 years ago (and according to HHH even before they went into to Evolution it was already decided that Orton and Tista would be maineventers so it just became a self-fulfilling prophecy IMO).

Punk and Hardy were supposed to be the latest midcard guys to escape the midcard caste; however, they got the Benoit championship treatment and are overlooked as main-eventers and then thrust right back down into the midcard despite being over with fanbase.

I suppose my final answer is being a midcarder isn't bad...but if the company is treating the entire midcard as an afterthought while giving the midcarders little to no chance of breaking out of the midcard, then yes it is bad to be a midcarder.

On that last note its good to be in the midcard when bookers actually attempt to give you the time and angles to get you over. See Cena, Edge and Santino

[Down by Law]

i know some guys in the indies who are from ct and wrestle in boston and only get paid in gas money. why? because they love it. win lose or draw, i'd say the mid carders have just as much passion for the bizz as anyone and just being in the wwe is a blessing for them.

[skiller]

The biggest problem with being a midcarder in the WWE is the fact that the WWE itself doesn't seem to care too much about it. If the company treats it like an afterthought then the fans will follow the lead.

This is more of a problem with the WWE than any person currently in the midcard range of the roster. I'm sure if given the chance they'd rather be making he money they currently do. But why should we care about these guys when many of them don't have big engaging feuds or even regular PPV matches?

Years ago guys got over in the midcard by being put in angles, feuds or given over the top gimmicks and it worked. Nowadays, you're lucky to get even one chance to get a gimmick over before they just toss you to aside like a child bored with his new toy.

That's the problem with the WWE's midcard.

[JacopeX]

Mar 15, 2009 14:11:24 GMT -5 Joekishi said:

I've read it many times here "if so-and-so isn't champ he's being wasted", and if they win the US/IC/Tag title it doesn't mean anything and they are being buried.

I don't get it, these guys toil in developmental, the indies, and around the world to get on WWE TV, and people are saying they are failures for not being in the main event and thus not meaning anything.

Blah, these guys worked hard to get where millions of others will never be.

Not everybody will be a main eventer or should be a main eventer.

Much Respect to the midcard

QFT!

I can't think of any other wrestling company who posseses such a scouting department that is as strict as any other company that would take any amateur or some idiot who is more of a fan than a wrestler.

eg. Mass Transit

If you make it to the NBA, it means you have talent. Period. If you love the sport, you should be happy regardless.

[chunkylover53]

Mar 15, 2009 17:37:56 GMT -5 @skiller said:

The biggest problem with being a midcarder in the WWE is the fact that the WWE itself doesn't seem to care too much about it. If the company treats it like an afterthought then the fans will follow the lead.

This is more of a problem with the WWE than any person currently in the midcard range of the roster. I'm sure if given the chance they'd rather be making he money they currently do. But why should we care about these guys when many of them don't have big engaging feuds or even regular PPV matches?

Years ago guys got over in the midcard by being put in angles, feuds or given over the top gimmicks and it worked. Nowadays, you're lucky to get even one chance to get a gimmick over before they just toss you to aside like a child bored with his new toy.

That's the problem with the WWE's midcard.

See Kizarny.

[Loki]

Being a midcarder is bad since a bunch of dirtsheet writers decided every Flavour of the Week, every Indy God, every Bestest Technician/High-Flyer Ever, every Average Joe they liked MUST become at least a Main Eventer, and possibly get a World Championship.

Of course, that's based on PERSONAL perception, ignoring the very basic nature of the wrestling business (and of every business, sport, hobby, activity).

A wrestling company just have place for ONE Top Guy, a couple of Antagonists/Substitute Top Guys, a bunch of Big Players, and then there's the "Rest of the World"...

Main Event is what puts butts in the seats, what sells PPV and tickets. Upper-midcard can sell merchandise and make it for appreciated "bonus material" in addition to the ME, and to an extent the midcard is the same.

But not every midcarder can or should be Main Event someday.

I don't get all the complaints about "midcard means nothing". It means exactly as much as it meant when it was Koko B. Ware v Barbarian, or Natural Disasters v Headshrinkers.

But with 5 hours of weekly TV, featuring Main Eventers a plenty, the perception of midcard meaning little is reasonable.
However, so-called self-proclaimed experts should know better.

It's like expecting every Linebacker in NFL to become Superbowl MVP material

[Jay Carroll]

The problem I see nowadays with the midcard is the lack of elevation. Loki, while I agree with your "not every linebacker can be Superbowl MVP" analogy, the entire point of the midcard is to showcase talent that either 1) isn't ready for the top of the card, but may be there one day or 2) a place for talent that was elevated to the top of the card, but is moving back down due to failure to perform, getting over, etc.

It seems as though the WWE has guys that are main eventers, and then everyone else. One of the main principles of wrestling is "Always be in the process of making new stars". If you look at the WWE's main event scene, John Cena is the youngest guy there. But on the other end of the spectrum, you have Edge (who because of neck problems isn't gonna be around forever) HBK (old, as much as it pains me to say it), Undertaker (same as HBK) , HHH (way closer to the end than the beginning) JBL, Chris Jericho.. all of which are pushing 40, or past it.

So who's taking those main event slots in the next 3 years? Who has been built like Cena was, given a consistent mid-card push, made to look good with main eventers?

[Loki]

Mar 15, 2009 18:49:00 GMT -5 Jay Carroll said:

The problem I see nowadays with the midcard is the lack of elevation. Loki, while I agree with your "not every linebacker can be Superbowl MVP" analogy, the entire point of the midcard is to showcase talent that either 1) isn't ready for the top of the card, but may be there one day or 2) a place for talent that was elevated to the top of the card, but is moving back down due to failure to perform, getting over, etc.

Fair enough, but you're forgetting the very Raison d'être of the midcard, the point that has brought us decades of "interesting filler"

3) talent that is good/over enough to work on TV and on PPVs, but that isn't and probably won't ever be good/over enough to become Upper-midcard/Main Event.

Actually, the vast majority of professional wrestlers fit into that category, while very few are part of your category 1 and 2 [while #2 is what happened to former #1 guys who are older or who flopped]

It seems as though the WWE has guys that are main eventers, and then everyone else. One of the main principles of wrestling is "Always be in the process of making new stars". If you look at the WWE's main event scene, John Cena is the youngest guy there. But on the other end of the spectrum, you have Edge (who because of neck problems isn't gonna be around forever) HBK (old, as much as it pains me to say it), Undertaker (same as HBK) , HHH (way closer to the end than the beginning) JBL, Chris Jericho.. all of which are pushing 40, or past it.

So who's taking those main event slots in the next 3 years? Who has been built like Cena was, given a consistent mid-card push, made to look good with main eventers?

Probably just an handful of guys who are actually in the lower-card...

In 1989 Would YOU have thought of those two Tag Team guys, one wearing pink and the other being a lame R'n'R Express rip-off, becoming THE leading stars of the next decade?

Or the balding half of Hollywood Blondes and Generic Blue Chipper Rocky Maivia becoming Icons on par with Hulk Hogan?

What about Flair-clone, Terra Ryzing, later turned Connecticut BlueBlood?

And now look at how many sure-fire future Champions ended up as failures and letdowns.

The truth is: there is so much you can do to "make" a new Star, before luck and the ability to establish a true connection with the crowd play the decisive part in the success of in the failure of a Superstar.

Years of patient "building a character up" work just if the crowds care [see: Hart, Bret; Benoit, Chris].
If the crowd don't, every push in the world won't change much [see: Gunn, Billy]

[Joekishi]

Mar 15, 2009 18:49:00 GMT -5 Jay Carroll said:

So who's taking those main event slots in the next 3 years? Who has been built like Cena was, given a consistent mid-card push, made to look good with main eventers?

That would be CM Punk, Jack Swagger, The Hardys, and Kofi.

Seriously though, once a guy gets to main event they'll stay there if they earn it. With Jeff and Punk they are still given big pushes and kept relevant. Jack Swagger has been pushed really hard as a young guy with the ability to take out veterans like Matt, Finlay, and Christian.

There's tons of talent on the roster and at anytime should WWE choose correctly they can break out as main events.

Seriously Carlito is going to be huge one day.

[Nic Nemeth]

To answer the OP question, it's bad because midcarders are the first to go when it's releasing time [See: Burke, Elijah or Palumbo, Chuck].

The problem though is that not every midcarder has to main-event to succeed.

Look at Kofi, he is amazingly over but you pretty much know he'll never main-event, in my eyes he has succeeded.

And even though Santino and TBK will never main-event, they're at least doing well where they are, which is being "filler that keeps you interested".

[salTy]

If they actually invested time in the mid-card like they used to, then perhaps I wouldn't see it as so bad. There are no mid-card storylines anymore, there are only feuds without dialogue. All the time on the show is invested in the main event, which is probably the reason mid-card wrestlers get very weak crowd reactions these days. I remember when Razor Ramon had the entire crowd behind him-- could the same be said for Regal and Shelton? Granted they're heels, but where's the heat? Does anyone really even care what happens to those championships?

[James McCloud IS John Godot]

It's not bad. Neither is being in middle management, being a rotational player on a sports team rather than being the starting star, being Vice President or being a sub-boss in a video game.

But if you feel someone could or should deserve more/do better in a higher position, why not say so?

[FrankGotch]

The problem with the WWE is that they have no idea how to build and use long term mid-carders anymore.

To see proper usage of mid-card talent go back and look at the NWA in the 80's. Everyone there had something going on all the time. If a mid-carder wasn't in a tournament for one of the belts, or tag belts he was in a feud. The tag division was taken seriously to the point where the World tag champions were almost on par with the World singles champ. Heck even the US tag championships were made to look elite.

The best part about the NWA was that everyone including the lower card were made to look like they were world class wrestlers. On any given night you might have Rocky King as a mandatory challenger to Ric Flair for his title, and Rocky would actually give Ric a very hard time and be made to look creatable.