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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Apr 15, 2009 5:00:56 GMT -5
One thing that hurt Mania this year was no mainstream match or moment.
Last year you had Show vs Mayweather, the year before Battle of the Billionaires, 22 didn't really have a mainstream match, 21 you had Hogan going into the Hall of Fame so you knew that he was going to be there along with knowing that Austin was going to be there, 20 was the 20th Mania along with Rock and Austin being there, 19 had a stacked card, and 18 had Hogan vs Rock.
This year the biggest attraction was Austin going into the Hall of Fame and the slight possibility he'd get involved with the Jericho vs Legends match. But that was it. When Jericho first took the shot at Rourke that looked like the mainstream match that would get the public's attention. But Rourke didn't face Jericho, neither did Austin, or Hogan, and there was no Rock.
Please let this lead to Vince cracking the checkbook open and us getting Rock vs Cena, next year. That's your mainstream match and unquestionably the Mania main event.
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Miss RKO
Dennis Stamp
Orton's #1 Fan! ... after that chubby guy.
Bring back the Orton pose, Randy
Posts: 4,018
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Post by Miss RKO on Apr 15, 2009 7:02:59 GMT -5
Cena main eventing doesnt seem to be gaining buys since his return at Survivor Series did an awful buyrate. And his return was overhyped to the point of inducing suicide...i guess the Cena fad is over. Cena winning doesn't = buys it would seem. Thank god Getting mostly cheers on tv doesnt seem to translate into PPV buys, i mean like i said the show he returned on did a terrible buyrate yet his return was overhyped to hell and you'da thought Cena = buys but i guess he's not as popular as he was. If your top face cant get decent buys for his big first show back after a few months off you got problems. Cena may be a cash cow for merch but he isnt for PPV's
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crash1984
Unicron
Scavenger Hunt All-Star
You don't need pants for the victory dance
Posts: 3,039
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Post by crash1984 on Apr 15, 2009 7:16:06 GMT -5
I am sure that illegal streams, illegal downloads a few hours after the event, knowing it will be on a video site within a few hours, and places like restraunts and bars that show it probably cut into the buyrate some. However I would say that almost all the people who did not buy it have not seen it yet. I have not seen it yet because I know that in May I can get it on DVD a lot cheaper and can watch it at my own pace.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Apr 15, 2009 7:41:22 GMT -5
Are illegal cable feeds, the possibility of watching the match cheaper on DVD a few weeks later and the high price unique to 2009? It's not that it's *unique* to 2009. It's just becoming easier and more popular to do as time passes. It will be even easier and more well known in 2010. And it's not just one thing. It's everything. We can all argue about which ones play a larger factor than the others, but they *all* play a factor, and they're all linked together. The economy does play a role. People have much less disposable income these days. And once you consider all the other factors (free feeds, DVD for half the price, lackluster card, etc.) not shelling out 55 bucks for WM is an easy choice. I can understand why people don't want to shell out 55 bucks for a lackluster card with a ton of matches we've seen countless times before. How many times are the main event matches going to get clogged up by the big names? We've all seen Cena, HHH, Undertaker, HBK, Orton, and Edge countless times in the main event matches. The WWE needs to build up some new names instead of relying on the same old, same old. Wrestlemania is also on WWE 24/7 for free within 3 months. It's also on DVD a month or two after the event for less than half the price, complete with free full HOF ceremony + bonus features. It's a much cheaper alternative for those who are interested in the show, but not interested enough to shell out 55 bucks. And for those who want to see it live anyway, there's of course the live streams, which are getting more plentiful and better in quality. Granted, they're not exactly HD. And personally, I'd prefer to watch quality PPVs on my 46" HDTV. But when you're talking a mediocre card that holds little interest, I can understand why people tune into the live stream for the one match or two that they're interested in, then tune right back out. It's also available for free in full HD quality within hours on most of the major torrent networks, and anyone with a halfway decent broadband connection can download it in a couple of hours. All of this plays a role. You sit there with 55 bucks which you don't know if you can afford to give up. You see a mediocre card which may or may not interest you, and look at all the free alternatives out there available to you. Even the legal methods are half the price. All things considered, I'm surprised the buyrates are as *high* as they were. Many people knew that this wasn't going to be an all-time-classic going into WM25, and I'm not surprised that many of them flocked to the alternatives. Or they just didn't bother to watch at all.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Apr 15, 2009 8:21:03 GMT -5
One thing that hurt Mania this year was no mainstream match or moment. Last year you had Show vs Mayweather, the year before Battle of the Billionaires, 22 didn't really have a mainstream match, 21 you had Hogan going into the Hall of Fame so you knew that he was going to be there along with knowing that Austin was going to be there, 20 was the 20th Mania along with Rock and Austin being there, 19 had a stacked card, and 18 had Hogan vs Rock. This year the biggest attraction was Austin going into the Hall of Fame and the slight possibility he'd get involved with the Jericho vs Legends match. But that was it. When Jericho first took the shot at Rourke that looked like the mainstream match that would get the public's attention. But Rourke didn't face Jericho, neither did Austin, or Hogan, and there was no Rock. Please let this lead to Vince cracking the checkbook open and us getting Rock vs Cena, next year. That's your mainstream match and unquestionably the Mania main event. I think having Kid Rock play as long as he did was the "mainstream" moment. And look how that turned out
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sloride
Unicron
Doesn't Suck Up. Or Does She?
The Greatest Entertainer to have ever Lived
Posts: 3,196
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Post by sloride on Apr 15, 2009 8:31:46 GMT -5
Live streams have definitely played a huge role in denting the buyrates. A few years ago they didn't as they were dreadful, but now they are a very decent quality. Sure its not HD on your TV quality but its in good enough quality that watching that is a definite alternative to shelling out $55. Plus we were in a recession, that does affect things.
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Post by mistrsynistr on Apr 15, 2009 14:15:27 GMT -5
There was no reason as a casual fan to order WM this year. I am not surprised in the least bit and thought weeks before WM25 that is was going to flop horribly. The money in the bank "attraction" has worn off, it was stale with the 3rd one. Casual fans do not care about Tag Team unification belts of teams off Smackdown and ECW. Diva Battle Royal? No. Jericho taking on washed up legends who are on RAW all the time? No mention of Hogan, Stone Cold and minimal Rourke? Big Show vs Cena has been done, at a WM! Edge Cena has been done a zillion times! Throw them together! HBK/Taker is special to smarks, not casuals...same ol' guys fighting..and if you haven't watch since the attitude era you'd be like WTF? these 2 fight all the time! Don't get me started on HHH/Orton. Good lord.
There was no reason to purchase this, ESPECIALLY at $55 or $65 a POP! what is that? Every other country comes out to $14.99-$25 american for WM....it's highway robbery.
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Beans
Team Rocket
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Post by Beans on Apr 15, 2009 14:37:50 GMT -5
I think you can look at the most advertised match at the event and that was HHH vs Orton. As big an Orton fan as I am even I didn't have much interest in the match as it has been done over and over and over again, more often than not to the same end result.
MITB as a concept I think IS tired now. No doubt the novilty has worn off that it's no longer a draw attraction. I don't see the point in having the match anyway when you've got the Hardy's match on the same card. They'll both attract the same casual viewer and nobody can order Wrestlemania twice.
I think the a battle royal would have been a much more productive and appealing useage of your mid-card talent than MITB. I'd have tried to give it a twist and perhaps do a 20/30 man over the top rope battle royal inside a 15ft high steel cage with ladders and tables and whatever....not sure how it'd work but it'd be an interestin enough concept I think to get people interested.
Divas....whatever not one person has ever bought a WWE ppv because of a Diva's match an that probaly includes close friends and relatives of the Divas themselves.
Big Show by rights should be a physically imposing draw for WWE. Instead he's a forgettable third leg in a mid-card title match. He should be in a match by itself.If built well enough and a worthy enough opponant Big Show vs ____ IS a draw. It's not a huge draw but it's sufficient for the purpose.
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Post by The Karaoke King on Apr 15, 2009 15:11:55 GMT -5
How much are you guys paying?!
Here in the UK, we're paying the equivalent of $22.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2009 15:15:13 GMT -5
Are illegal cable feeds, the possibility of watching the match cheaper on DVD a few weeks later and the high price unique to 2009? Naturally they aren't, however combined with the economy more people will choose to go with those methods (Or at least go watch it at a bar or something). Also keep in mind that watching online illegal feeds becomes a more and more mainstream thing to do each year as more people hear about it and/or think to try it. The card didn't warrant a great deal of attention either, so these aren't the only reasons. They are a solid part of it however, particularly for this PPV as it is more expensive than the others.
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Post by Fantozzi on Apr 15, 2009 15:26:30 GMT -5
How much are you guys paying?! Here in the UK, we're paying the equivalent of $22. in italy about 15$ honestly i don't know how you can pay that much (55$, not 15) for a wrestling show
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Post by Bauertainments on Apr 15, 2009 15:29:27 GMT -5
Live PPV: $55 DVD just a month and a half later: $19.99
That's probably a factor
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2009 15:32:52 GMT -5
How much are you guys paying?! Here in the UK, we're paying the equivalent of $22. in italy about 15$ honestly i don't know how you can pay that much (55$, not 15) for a wrestling show It looks like a lot of people agreed with you...and didn't pay it.
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Post by Paco S. Loco on Apr 15, 2009 15:55:14 GMT -5
Are illegal cable feeds, the possibility of watching the match cheaper on DVD a few weeks later and the high price unique to 2009? Nope. Monday Night Football wasn't new either, but there sure were a ton of people acting like it was when it came time to make excuses for Raw's ratings dropping into the upper 2's in late 2008. And if they dip that low again this year it's guaranteed that 2009 is the first year of Monday Night Football... again. If Wrestlemania looked good enough, people would've ordered. To They simply would've not spent as much elsewhere. People who ordered tons of PPVs per year would simply say "Well I won't be ordering Judgment Day or Cyber Sunday etc.. this year!" Like has been said, if I was WWE I'd be more disturbed about the people who DID order and aren't happy with how it turned out. In general I'd say the initial reaction of PPVs from the people who order or attend them has always been 90% of the "I paid for it, therefore it was awesome and worth infinity times what I paid!" mentality. It's only when time passes that you'll suddenly see people saying a PPV was merely decent or worse. Now you've got a decent amount of people immediately saying it wasn't worth the money. Doesn't bode well for future buyrates. Not to mention who knows how many of the people claiming it was still worth the money are the ones only doing so to try and convince themselves and once time passes will be blasting the event too.
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Post by Drink Up Me Cider on Apr 15, 2009 16:37:38 GMT -5
Well the build up sucked and then the show sucked, big shocker that people weren't buying in to it huh?
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Beans
Team Rocket
Posts: 921
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Post by Beans on Apr 15, 2009 16:41:29 GMT -5
I'm just thinking.....I've been watching WWE ppvs on good quality feeds since.....2004. Blaming that on the low buy rates is a bit late.
Then again perhaps the buyrate was low as all those pesky kids were on their Space Invaders and watching 90210
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Apr 15, 2009 17:31:06 GMT -5
I had a feeling the card was going to be less than stellar, but yet I ordered anyways mostly because it was WM and I was hoping WWE would surprise us with some new developments/feuds/swerves, but it was rather average.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 15, 2009 22:13:43 GMT -5
I can safely say that, in my case, while I had no real interest in seeing WM, my cousin and brother were interested in ordering...until they heard how much it would cost. They quickly lost interest.
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Randy Barber 4-Life
Hank Scorpio
I have received an email from RAW's anonymous General Manager. And I quote: "No play for Mr. Gray!"
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Post by Randy Barber 4-Life on Apr 16, 2009 0:15:37 GMT -5
I think the a battle royal would have been a much more productive and appealing useage of your mid-card talent than MITB. I'd have tried to give it a twist and perhaps do a 20/30 man over the top rope battle royal inside a 15ft high steel cage with ladders and tables and whatever....not sure how it'd work but it'd be an interestin enough concept I think to get people interested. Bunkhouse Stampede! Can Cody carry on the family tradition?
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Post by SWH - Shane Hero on Apr 16, 2009 5:37:33 GMT -5
Here's my theory; perhaps it has something to do with WWE upping the price whilst simultaneously targeting a younger audience. How many parents would pay $55 for their kids to watch a TV show? And given the choice, kids would probably be just as happy watching wrestling on free TV each week and spending the $55 on far better value items like DVDs or video games they can KEEP.
If the show were half that price, probably more than twice as many people would have ordered. That means more money. Plus it means a more impressive number.
I just don't think a $55 PPV is a product that will sell to a 6-13 year old audience.
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