Brother Coyote
Samurai Cop
Has Clarity of Vision Is an engine of will
Posts: 2,124
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Post by Brother Coyote on Jun 19, 2009 20:26:29 GMT -5
I got a ticket for speeding in Grapevine Texas, it was actually the back roads of the airport but when you get a ticket from the airport police its a toss up which city they send the ticket to sometimes. The morning I went to see the judge he gave the whole room of 80 or so people a long speech how the Texas legislature had gone over a billion dollars over budget and had raised the fines on most traffic tickets. As a result of this his new policy was to give EVERYONE the minimum fine. Cool Judge. You'll probably find a lot of judges, lawyers, and policemen feel that way. A lot of quotas and BS seem to deliver the message people in office think that speeding is some ATM. I wanna say the city of Dallas got in a LOT of hot water for setting up sort of a points based quota system for their cops, they had to get so many points and different things were worth different points. Like say they needed 100 points per day and handing out a speeding ticker was worth like 20 points.
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Post by FrankGotch on Jun 19, 2009 20:55:53 GMT -5
Everyone speeds and if you don't you either live in a very congested city, or don't drive much. If you ever drive on the interstate speeding is necessary. Sticking with the flow of the traffic around you is much more important, and safer then following the speed limit. You say that like it's an excuse, but it's not. If you choose speed you take the risks on board. You may get a fine, you may have an accident, but you are ultimately responsible for what happens. If you're old enough to drive, you're old enough to make your own decisions. You can choose to speed or you can choose not to. You don't have to do it. It doesn't matter where you are. If you go over the speed limit, don't expect any special treatments because you were just going with the flow. That's why they make multiple lanes on bigger roads. How often do you drive? How much experience do you have with our nations highway system? How often do you do interstate driving? I worked heavy highway construction for five years. During that time I worked on roadways in four different states. Saw a ton of crashes and pile ups in those years. Most of the wrecks I saw out there were caused by someone driving the speed limit on the interstate instead of going with the flow of traffic. In our country the highway system is broken. The speed limits on interstates have nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with making the state money through fines. Common sense isn't common anymore, and we have become a country of sheep who follow any rule in the name of safety even if those rules don't make any sense. Bad ineffectual laws need to be taken off the books, and current interstate speed limits are a bad ineffectual laws. BTW I have a clean driving record, and have never gotten a ticket. I'm not some bitter guy with 7 points on his license. I'm a guy who has been out on the road, and I have seen far too many wrecks caused by slow drivers forcing everyone around them to merge. Plain and simple the speed limits in our country are dangerous and they stink.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,121
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 19, 2009 21:03:00 GMT -5
You'll probably find a lot of judges, lawyers, and policemen feel that way. A lot of quotas and BS seem to deliver the message people in office think that speeding is some ATM. I wanna say the city of Dallas got in a LOT of hot water for setting up sort of a points based quota system for their cops, they had to get so many points and different things were worth different points. Like say they needed 100 points per day and handing out a speeding ticker was worth like 20 points. Sounds fairly familiar. Dallas treats their cops like crap.
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Brother Coyote
Samurai Cop
Has Clarity of Vision Is an engine of will
Posts: 2,124
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Post by Brother Coyote on Jun 19, 2009 21:06:06 GMT -5
I wanna say the city of Dallas got in a LOT of hot water for setting up sort of a points based quota system for their cops, they had to get so many points and different things were worth different points. Like say they needed 100 points per day and handing out a speeding ticker was worth like 20 points. Sounds fairly familiar. Dallas treats their cops like crap. I think it was three or so years back Russ Martin was making a big deal about it.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Jun 19, 2009 21:09:12 GMT -5
I commute an hour between school and home, so I'm on highways and interstates 5 days a week. Have been for over five years. And I can't say I've EVER seen a problem arise from people driving the posted speed limit.
Driving the speed limit doesn't cause accidents. Zig-zagging through traffic because you're hell-bent on speeding is what causes accidents.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,121
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 19, 2009 21:10:20 GMT -5
Sounds fairly familiar. Dallas treats their cops like crap. I think it was three or so years back Russ Martin was making a big deal about it. Indeed. Russ stuck up for cops and firemen quite a bit, which I can get behind. Too bad CBS bailed on him.
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Post by FrankGotch on Jun 19, 2009 22:10:50 GMT -5
I commute an hour between school and home, so I'm on highways and interstates 5 days a week. Have been for over five years. And I can't say I've EVER seen a problem arise from people driving the posted speed limit. Driving the speed limit doesn't cause accidents. Zig-zagging through traffic because you're hell-bent on speeding is what causes accidents. People are zig zagging through traffic because they got 900 cars up their butt because the idiot ahead of them is driving 65 on a 40 mile straight stretch. People need to go with the flow of traffic not the posted speed period. I've worked on the highways. In that time I've talked to state troopers, state foremen, engineers, and urban planners. All of them hate interstate speed limits because they realize that speed limits on the interstate causes problems. Even troopers admit that speed limits are only in place to generate revenue. Speed limits are fine for curvy back roads, or heavily populated areas, but speed limits have no place on our nations interstates, and they should be removed.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Jun 19, 2009 22:47:45 GMT -5
People are zig zagging through traffic because they got 900 cars up their butt because the idiot ahead of them is driving 65 on a 40 mile straight stretch. And if they get in an accident because they're zig-zagging carelessly, then they're to blame. Not the guy driving the speed limit. 'Cause the idiot isn't the one who drives 65 on a 65 zone, but the guy who tries weaving in and out of traffic going 85 and isn't careful enough to do so successfully.
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Jun 19, 2009 23:03:25 GMT -5
We have about 4 or 5 of these cameras in my city. The police officers I've talked to told me that they were basically for generating some income for the city, that is why they put them at the most busy red lights in the city. On our local tv, the city council were discussing how wrecks at these lights were increasing since the camera's were installed, mainly because people would rather slam their brakes when the light turns yellow and get rear ended than chance the light and ticket.
We found some fun with it. My buddy has a corvette convertible and we blackened the license plate and put on ski masks and ran one of them at 3 a.m. when no one was around. We had the top let down and held our hands up in the air as if it were a roller coaster.
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Jun 19, 2009 23:12:46 GMT -5
There are only a few around me. I could have sworn they passed a law that made those illegal, but some cities got like a 10 year grandfather clause...
Either way, there is one intersection near me that has around 6-10 cameras set up at it. And over half of them point one way.
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Brother Coyote
Samurai Cop
Has Clarity of Vision Is an engine of will
Posts: 2,124
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Post by Brother Coyote on Jun 20, 2009 7:48:47 GMT -5
People are zig zagging through traffic because they got 900 cars up their butt because the idiot ahead of them is driving 65 on a 40 mile straight stretch. And if they get in an accident because they're zig-zagging carelessly, then they're to blame. Not the guy driving the speed limit. 'Cause the idiot isn't the one who drives 65 on a 65 zone, but the guy who tries weaving in and out of traffic going 85 and isn't careful enough to do so successfully. I like your Judge Dredd stance on the law and all but maybe when all the evidence is to the contrary of your position you should rethink the situation.
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Post by FrankGotch on Jun 20, 2009 8:11:05 GMT -5
People are zig zagging through traffic because they got 900 cars up their butt because the idiot ahead of them is driving 65 on a 40 mile straight stretch. And if they get in an accident because they're zig-zagging carelessly, then they're to blame. Not the guy driving the speed limit. 'Cause the idiot isn't the one who drives 65 on a 65 zone, but the guy who tries weaving in and out of traffic going 85 and isn't careful enough to do so successfully. People aren't getting into accidents because they are zig-zagging carelessly. They're getting into accidents because slower drivers congest traffic causing massive back ups. When that happens people merge in and out of lanes, and no matter how careful you are while merging most trucks and even some cars have blind spots, so accidents happen. The interstates were originally designed in order to space out traffic and speed up commute time. interstate speed limits defeat that purpose entirely.
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Post by Psy on Jun 20, 2009 9:32:38 GMT -5
I am surprised nobody mentioned the "Divas" link at the bottom.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Jun 20, 2009 13:57:33 GMT -5
I'd love to see that argument made in court.
"But, Your Honor, everyone was going too slow! So, you see, when I swerved into another lane while going twenty miles over the speed limit, it was actually everyone elses fault that I struck that poor old lady! If they had just driven faster than the speed limit too, I wouldn't have been so careless!"
I speed all the time. But know what I do when others are going the speed limit? I slow down, until I have a chance to pass them safely. And that seems to work pretty damn well for me. But, hey, I guess no one understands the concept of personal responsibility anymore. Everything always has to be everyone elses fault, no matter what.
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Post by Stu on Jun 20, 2009 14:30:27 GMT -5
What exactly constitutes speeding? Is 5 mph over the limit speeding? Because a major arterial in my area has a 45 mph limit, but I tend to go 50 mph, and no more.
On the insterstate, however, I may go 10 mph, tops.
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Post by FrankGotch on Jun 20, 2009 17:26:45 GMT -5
I'd love to see that argument made in court. "But, Your Honor, everyone was going too slow! So, you see, when I swerved into another lane while going twenty miles over the speed limit, it was actually everyone elses fault that I struck that poor old lady! If they had just driven faster than the speed limit too, I wouldn't have been so careless!" I speed all the time. But know what I do when others are going the speed limit? I slow down, until I have a chance to pass them safely. And that seems to work pretty damn well for me. But, hey, I guess no one understands the concept of personal responsibility anymore. Everything always has to be everyone elses fault, no matter what. When was the last time you were driving a fifth wheel, a semi, or a large truck with a compressor on the back? When was the last time you were traveling on a rigidly timed schedule? The problems on our nations interstates have little to do with personal responsibility and everything to do with a crappy broken system.
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Jun 20, 2009 17:43:43 GMT -5
Breakin the law, breakin the law.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 20, 2009 17:49:22 GMT -5
What exactly constitutes speeding? Is 5 mph over the limit speeding? Because a major arterial in my area has a 45 mph limit, but I tend to go 50 mph, and no more. On the insterstate, however, I may go 10 mph, tops. That sounds about how I drive. 5 over on local roads. 5-20 (sometimes 25) on the highway, depending on flow of traffic. I usually go with the flow, which is most of the time 70-75. I make sure there's usually at least one person driving faster than me so that makes me far less likely to get a ticket. And to this day, I've only gotten one ticket (and that's from not stopping at a stop sign while making a right turn, even though I did; long story). This is why the highways have multiple lanes. Slower traffic should be on the rightmost lane, for people who either don't like going over the speed limit, or for people to slow down on so they don't go crashing over the guard rail for the exit ramp. The leftmost lane (the "passing lane") should be for the fastest drivers so they can get ahead of slower moving traffic. And while I am a huge advocate of car safety and HATE tailgaters (which only causes me to slow down and play mind games with them until they back the f*** off or change lanes), there's really no excuse for someone to be going at least 5 over on the leftmost lane, outside of extraordinary circumstances. I'm just glad that non-pickup trucks are banned from the usual highway I use, and that there's dedicated truck and bus lanes for another.
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Jun 20, 2009 18:36:32 GMT -5
I'm just happy that NC highways speed limit is like 70-80 MPH anyways.
Also, I think everyone in this thread needs to take a step back and realize no one is 100% right here. Not all wrecks are caused by "slow" drivers and not all wrecks are caused by "fast" drivers. Every wreck is a case by case situation in and of itself.
I'm a speeder myself, but I'm careful about the way I do it. I don't ride people's bumpers, I don't zig and zag through traffic like I'm in some kind of puzzle, etc. However I see plenty of speeders that drive like maniacs, regardless of the "flow of traffic" and when they get in a wreck I can promise you it's going to be likely that it was their faults.
On the other hand, I've seen plenty of "slow" drivers driving just as safe as can be. In their proper lane, doing the speed limit, not holding people up, etc. But I've also seen plenty of them that are driving like morons and probably will be the cause of a wreck one day.
Also, one of the major points I see contested here is following the "flow of traffic" but that seems to be completely ignored when defending zig zaggers. The fact is, if you're zigging and zagging all throughout traffic, you're obviously not following the "flow of traffic".
It's not SPEED, slow or fast, that causes wrecks it's HOW you drive and how much attention you're paying to what you're doing.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 20, 2009 22:43:08 GMT -5
Yeah. I hate lane weavers myself. I usually just go to one lane and stick with it until I get to my exit, changing lanes when the person in front of me is going to slow and I have a safe way out. Too many times, people who weave through traffic blatantly cut-off and tailgate others, which isn't safe no matter how slow or fast they or everyone else is going. That's just reckless driving.
Usual speed limit of the highways here I drive is between 55-65 mph. Mostly 65 except for the Garden State Parkway around the Raritan toll booth and north, where it changes to 55 for some reason, though people treat it like a 65 mph zone anyway. Cops don't really care either unless you start breaking 80.
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