So, let me get this straight...

[Ragnal]

Batista loses his first match tonight. Because, if I'm not mistaken, he lost his cool and went for a steel chair. Thus, the main event was to be Legacy vs. Batista. Batista then takes out the rest of Legacy, leaving Orton for himself at the end of the night. Realizing Batista's pissed, Orton tries to reason with him...and then Batista gets cheers for disqualifying himself, and throwing a steel step at Orton? The kind of thing a heel would get booed for?

This isn't favoritism. This is just me trying to find logic in a wrestling storyline. It was the same thing with Triple H breaking into Orton's house, and Cena blackmailing Vickie only to showcase the videotape of her affair with Show anyway. The good guys do bad things, but get CHEERED. It's at a point I want to CHEER for Orton because he's getting the rough end of this feud.

Does anyone feel the same way?

[Michael Coello]

Seems like the Stone Cold theory, with the anti-hero going after the bad authority (McMahon)or top stable (Hart Foundation, Ministry, etc.), and anything he does makes him good cause it's against them, even if it goes against traditional rules of ethics.

[Pooh Carlson]

That just means that Orton is doing his job. Even though the face is doing naturally heel things, Orton is still able to make the fans hate him and want to see those things happen to him. Kudos to Orton.

[parder]

I think we're beginning to see how Bret Hart felt in America in 1997

As I said in the Raw thread I don't think this sells the PPV match well at all. But it seems like it may play more into what happens afterwards with the angle potentially being that he snaps so much that he starts to become an out and out heel. The swerve could be that it's not Batista that gets himself DQ'd, but Triple H interfering and getting caught, causing Batista to get mad at Triple H.

Having said that the only way I see Batista really being treated as a heel by the fans is if he explicitly turns on them rather than any specific wrestler. For some guys cheap heat is often the only thing you can get as a heel. Sadly a lot of the time it just seems to be all about who looks/sounds cool or dominant, rather than the morality play any more . Personally I find the latter just as important if I'm going to invest in the product.

[twiggy101]

I think fans like to see the heels get beaten the hell out of them so badly. I like it better when faces use weapons viciously because otherwise it isn't satisfying seeing a heel get his comeuppance. So I don't think only heels should be allowed to do such bad things because it would make the faces look tame.

[dicegirl72]

Side note~Batista wrestling twice in one show tonight? I wish I had a cute or funny gif to show how : | I am at this. ("Raw" hasn't come on yet here, I'm in CA). Just Woooowwwww. and : | As soon as I read "Batista loses his first match tonight" I was thinking "You mean there's more than one?"

[Ragnal]

May 11, 2009 22:54:51 GMT -5 dicegirl72 said:

Side note~Batista wrestling twice in one show tonight? I wish I had a cute or funny gif to show how : | I am at this. ("Raw" hasn't come on yet here, I'm in CA). Just Woooowwwww. and : | As soon as I read "Batista loses his first match tonight" I was thinking "You mean there's more than one?"

Sorry about that. I guess I should've left a spoilers label on the post. >>;

But in all honesty, I'm just seeing if I'm thinking too far into all of this, rather than just going with it. It just seems questionable to a point.

[derrtaysouth95]

I cheer for Orton & Legacy....because I like Orton & Legacy.

I boo Batista because I don't find him entertaining and I never have.

The 'faces' get cheered for hurting the heels because they are heels.....thats just how it is. It worked for Austin.

[Slingshot Suplay]

Cody kinda looked like Anakin Skywalker here...

[Michael Coello]

May 11, 2009 23:23:52 GMT -5 Slingshot Suplay said:

Cody kinda looked like Anakin Skywalker here...

Episode II Anakin, yeah.

[Rorschach]

May 11, 2009 22:52:44 GMT -5 parder said:

I think we're beginning to see how Bret Hart felt in America in 1997

As I said in the Raw thread I don't think this sells the PPV match well at all. But it seems like it may play more into what happens afterwards with the angle potentially being that he snaps so much that he starts to become an out and out heel. The swerve could be that it's not Batista that gets himself DQ'd, but Triple H interfering and getting caught, causing Batista to get mad at Triple H.

Having said that the only way I see Batista really being treated as a heel by the fans is if he explicitly turns on them rather than any specific wrestler. For some guys cheap heat is often the only thing you can get as a heel. Sadly a lot of the time it just seems to be all about who looks/sounds cool or dominant, rather than the morality play any more . Personally I find the latter just as important if I'm going to invest in the product.

If I may take that one bit further....mayhaps after Hunter does come back, and your scenario goes down...Legacy jumps Hunter from behind and then, suddenly, out of nowhere.....

instead of helping Hunter, Batista joins in? Takes Orton up on his offer after all and becomes Legacy's muscle...if only because "my enemy's enemy is my friend"?

[Cap'n Crud]

May 11, 2009 22:54:41 GMT -5 twiggy101 said:

I think fans like to see the heels get beaten the hell out of them so badly. I like it better when faces use weapons viciously because otherwise it isn't satisfying seeing a heel get his comeuppance. So I don't think only heels should be allowed to do such bad things because it would make the faces look tame.

This. As a kid I always wanted to see heels get a dose of their own medicine and I always hated the goody two shoes white meat faces for not doing so while they had the chance. That's why I liked Taz and Sandman in ECW and Stone Cold Steve Austin. They were the faces who fought back.

[Rorschach]

May 12, 2009 1:38:41 GMT -5 Cap'n Crud said:

May 11, 2009 22:54:41 GMT -5 twiggy101 said:

I think fans like to see the heels get beaten the hell out of them so badly. I like it better when faces use weapons viciously because otherwise it isn't satisfying seeing a heel get his comeuppance. So I don't think only heels should be allowed to do such bad things because it would make the faces look tame.

This. As a kid I always wanted to see heels get a dose of their own medicine and I always hated the goody two shoes white meat faces for not doing so while they had the chance. That's why I liked Taz and Sandman in ECW and Stone Cold Steve Austin. They were the faces who fought back.

Yeah, but for some reason, I don't get the Austin vibe from Big Dave...i get Goldberg vibes, which are two different things. Dave HARDLY needed a chair to decimate Legacy in it's entirety. It's like the Hulk taking on Daredevil and using a telephone pole on ol' DD.....waaay overkill. And it engendered sympathy for Orton from me, which I don't THINK was the point.

At his best, I don't remember Austin standing off the entire Hart Foundation. He might have ran them off...but I don't remember him just OWNING them like Dave did to Legacy tonight.

[Joekishi]

May 11, 2009 22:40:16 GMT -5 Ragnal said:

Batista loses his first match tonight. Because, if I'm not mistaken, he lost his cool and went for a steel chair. Thus, the main event was to be Legacy vs. Batista. Batista then takes out the rest of Legacy, leaving Orton for himself at the end of the night. Realizing Batista's pissed, Orton tries to reason with him...and then Batista gets cheers for disqualifying himself, and throwing a steel step at Orton? The kind of thing a heel would get booed for?

This isn't favoritism. This is just me trying to find logic in a wrestling storyline. It was the same thing with Triple H breaking into Orton's house, and Cena blackmailing Vickie only to showcase the videotape of her affair with Show anyway. The good guys do bad things, but get CHEERED. It's at a point I want to CHEER for Orton because he's getting the rough end of this feud.

Does anyone feel the same way?

No, Orton's been beating people up 3-on-1 and used the steps on Shane last week.

Plus it's a good guy doing it to a bad guy, so therefore the people cheer.

Plus Batista is a bad ass, no-nonsense guy.

Also joining Legacy just makes no sense, He'll be a loner as HHH and Orton try to get him on their side for some reason

[Mozenrath]

May 11, 2009 22:46:22 GMT -5 Pooh Carlson said:

That just means that Orton is doing his job. Even though the face is doing naturally heel things, Orton is still able to make the fans hate him and want to see those things happen to him. Kudos to Orton.

Good point, absolutely.

[Deleted]

The Hulkster cheated all the time.

[lunataxc]

May 12, 2009 1:53:12 GMT -5 Rorschach said:

At his best, I don't remember Austin standing off the entire Hart Foundation. He might have ran them off...but I don't remember him just OWNING them like Dave did to Legacy tonight.

Come on now, the Hart Foundation had "The Anvil" and "The British Bulldog". Thats hardly a fair comparison to say the least.

[Ragnal]

May 12, 2009 2:19:09 GMT -5 Joekishi said:

May 11, 2009 22:40:16 GMT -5 Ragnal said:

Batista loses his first match tonight. Because, if I'm not mistaken, he lost his cool and went for a steel chair. Thus, the main event was to be Legacy vs. Batista. Batista then takes out the rest of Legacy, leaving Orton for himself at the end of the night. Realizing Batista's pissed, Orton tries to reason with him...and then Batista gets cheers for disqualifying himself, and throwing a steel step at Orton? The kind of thing a heel would get booed for?

This isn't favoritism. This is just me trying to find logic in a wrestling storyline. It was the same thing with Triple H breaking into Orton's house, and Cena blackmailing Vickie only to showcase the videotape of her affair with Show anyway. The good guys do bad things, but get CHEERED. It's at a point I want to CHEER for Orton because he's getting the rough end of this feud.

Does anyone feel the same way?

No, Orton's been beating people up 3-on-1 and used the steps on Shane last week.

Plus it's a good guy doing it to a bad guy, so therefore the people cheer.

Plus Batista is a bad ass, no-nonsense guy.

Also joining Legacy just makes no sense, He'll be a loner as HHH and Orton try to get him on their side for some reason

First, that wasn't Orton's fault. That was Vickie Guerrero's doing, setting it up that way, and she DID make it capable to be even. But Regal got in the way, Batista was stupid to ignore the count, and it ended how it did. Orton was smart enough to take advantage of it. And who wouldn't have? Aside from the ankle, if it was 3-on-1 against Orton, the fans'd cheer. And yet it's the same odds. Nothing's different except for the sides.

Also, by your logic, everything a good guy does is good, but a bad guy doing it is bad? Just because a good guy does it, it's no better. Futurama even points this out subtly in the wrestling episode.

And nowhere did I indicate Batista should have joined Legacy. Even the dead could have seen that one coming. The point's the hypocrisy of it all.

[lunataxc]

May 12, 2009 3:49:01 GMT -5 Ragnal said:

And nowhere did I indicate Batista should have joined Legacy. Even the dead could have seen that one coming. The point's the hypocrisy of it all.

Hypocrisy on what? Orton did kayfabe take Batista out in the first place. So why wouldn't he want revenge. And its not in Batistas character to show mercy. He even beat the crap out of Shawn Michaels and got cheered for it.

[Mozenrath]

May 12, 2009 6:27:25 GMT -5 lunataxc said:

May 12, 2009 3:49:01 GMT -5 Ragnal said:

And nowhere did I indicate Batista should have joined Legacy. Even the dead could have seen that one coming. The point's the hypocrisy of it all.

Hypocrisy on what? Orton did kayfabe take Batista out in the first place. So why wouldn't he want revenge. And its not in Batistas character to show mercy. He even beat the crap out of Shawn Michaels and got cheered for it.

To be fair, it's because he thought Shawn was a cheater, and it turned out to be true.