Albino Heat
Don Corleone
You're a nasty bastard, and your momma said so!!
Posts: 2,095 
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Post by Albino Heat on Jul 1, 2009 0:13:56 GMT -5
The New Superstar Initiative v2 got me thinking about other similar situations and that brought me back to 2002.
Lesnar, Benjamin, Hass, Orton, Cena, Batista.... this crop was amazing.
Then the next batch of OVW students... Eugene, Brent Albright/Gunnar Scott, Doug Basham, Damaja/Danny Basham, Rob Conway, Rene Dupree... generously could be described as complete failure compared to the first.
Which brings me to the million dollar question: Why was the first class so much more successful compared to the second. Were they just straight up more talented, or was it something else?
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Post by mondaymorningchamp on Jul 1, 2009 0:17:17 GMT -5
more talented, better looks.
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Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Jul 1, 2009 0:19:12 GMT -5
A lot of it has to do with the positions the second group were put in. None of them besides Eugene were given a REAL character. The first group were put in positions to succeed and took advantage of it, while the second group were left to flounder in the midcard with little elevation.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jul 1, 2009 0:19:49 GMT -5
To be fair, out of the second class only Albright got a decent gimmick, and it ended fairly quickly. The rest were overly cartoony for the time period.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Jul 1, 2009 0:20:18 GMT -5
Well, with Hass and Benjamin you had two very experienced wrestlers and they ended up joining with Angle, which got them in the limelight pretty quick. Also, Shelton's just a crazy athlete in general.
Batista was just an absolute mammoth of a man who someone got a personality and got in with Evolution.
Lesnar was everything you could want in a main eventer. He couldn't talk so they brought in Heyman for him. This was genuis!
Orton and Cena were both skilled young workers. Orton has the family legacy (pun fully intended!) and Cena has crazy chasima and great mic skills.
It's really hard for anyone to beat that kind of class.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Jul 1, 2009 0:23:37 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the first class primarily recruited by Jim Ross and Jim Cornette?
Who recruited the second class?
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vanboxmeer
ALF
Starts threads that aren't about Edge or Cena
Posts: 1,057
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Post by vanboxmeer on Jul 1, 2009 0:26:12 GMT -5
CM Punk, Ken Kennedy, Ken Doane, Paul Burchill, Elijah Burke, Matt Morgan, Kozlov, and Evan Bourne were in OVW, though don't know if you could classify them as 2nd or 3rd or something.
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Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Jul 1, 2009 0:26:31 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the first class primarily recruited by Jim Ross and Jim Cornette? Who recruited the second class? Well Dinsmore, Conway, Basham and Damaja had all been kicking around OVW/WWF developmental for a few years before they got called up. |
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jul 1, 2009 0:42:05 GMT -5
CM Punk, Ken Kennedy, Ken Doane, Paul Burchill, Elijah Burke, Matt Morgan, Kozlov, and Evan Bourne were in OVW, though don't know if you could classify them as 2nd or 3rd or something. Punk, Kennedy, Bourne, and Burchill were all names on the indy circuit before being sent to OVW, specifically Bourne and Punk. Punk was main eventing shows globally, and was even in TNA for a little. They aren't considered as part of this discussion, really, as it is more about people who either started or really advanced their training in Louisville. |
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Post by HoganBai on Jul 1, 2009 7:39:27 GMT -5
Ziggler and Morgan are really the last 2 good guys brought up from development IMO, Ziggler is on the cusp of something big and Morgan is going to go a long way in TNA.
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Post by Mantaurded on Jul 1, 2009 9:12:53 GMT -5
But think again, that it took a while for some of those stars to have any accomplishments. Rene Dupree was a multiple time tag champion (and Rob Conway) and a solid contender for the US title picture. The Basham brothers were multiple time tag champions and had a good role in JBL's cabinet.
Hell even Eugene had matches on PPV with Triple H and had some spots in main events. Whether they were world champions or not, they still had a solid roll in the WWE.
except Gunnar Scott...
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 1, 2009 10:24:54 GMT -5
Is Albright really a 2nd group OVW guy? He really didn't come up until 2006 or so and I associate him more with the Punk/Jeter/Cappotelli/Lashley era of OVW that Heyman booked.
The 2nd group mentioned were a lot of the local OVW guys that finally got a call up to justify their long time in OVW. Dinsmore, Conway, the Bashams. Those guys were never especially amazing talents, good for a small regional type promotion perhaps, but had no chance of being national stars. It's like Bill Dundee headlining in Memphis but being a midcarder in the NWA.
And really, how successful have those initial 2002 guys been? Lesnar flamed out after a couple of years and is now in the UFC, so he was a bust. Haas and Benjamin are still around but have never been much beyond midcarders. That leaves Orton, Cena, and Batista who are still around and multi time champions. One guy has been pushed to death and had a major fan backlash (Cena), another has never gotten seriously over despite 10 pushes (Orton), and Batista has been solid at times but is injury prone.
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Post by parder on Jul 1, 2009 11:03:00 GMT -5
Is Albright really a 2nd group OVW guy? He really didn't come up until 2006 or so and I associate him more with the Punk/Jeter/Cappotelli/Lashley era of OVW that Heyman booked. The 2nd group mentioned were a lot of the local OVW guys that finally got a call up to justify their long time in OVW. Dinsmore, Conway, the Bashams. Those guys were never especially amazing talents, good for a small regional type promotion perhaps, but had no chance of being national stars. It's like Bill Dundee headlining in Memphis but being a midcarder in the NWA. And really, how successful have those initial 2002 guys been? Lesnar flamed out after a couple of years and is now in the UFC, so he was a bust. Haas and Benjamin are still around but have never been much beyond midcarders. That leaves Orton, Cena, and Batista who are still around and multi time champions. One guy has been pushed to death and had a major fan backlash (Cena), another has never gotten seriously over despite 10 pushes (Orton), and Batista has been solid at times but is injury prone. I think your standards for success are a bit too high. |
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CM Dazz
King Koopa
Chuck
Posts: 10,475
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Post by CM Dazz on Jul 1, 2009 14:11:04 GMT -5
The first class is just much more talanted/better look.
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Fiddleford H. McGucket
El Dandy
My Mind's been gone for 30-odd years! Can't Break what's already broken!
Posts: 8,748
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on Jul 1, 2009 15:41:42 GMT -5
ok....
Weren't The Bashams and Dupree/Conway Tag champs back as the titles began to die, but before they were completely meaningless?
As fa as the second class and the first, It seemed like the First class was allowed to succeed and fail on thier own merits and grew and evolved as wrestlers.
The second class however was a "failure" in many ways because of a change in thinking and booking. All of them were put in the situation where they got over immediately of not at all, a situation that if many have suffered because of.
Or simply had the Dennis Stamp treatment and simply weren't booked enough to get over with a TV audience outside of a specific gimmick.
I will admit to liking both the Bashams and La Resistance, I was intrigued by thier failed/aborted singles gimmicks and would have actually like to see what the Damaja thing really was.
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Parrish
El Dandy
Banana Man Wouldn't Book That!!!
Posts: 8,729
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Post by Parrish on Jul 1, 2009 16:38:14 GMT -5
Lesnar was not a bust by any means. He was over from the start and main evented and put on good matches almost his entire time in the fed, then he decided he wanted to move on to different things because of the schedule. He had out of this world matches with Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerero and even had good matches with Big Show. He feuded with everyone I think except Triple H and The Undertaker, though I could be wrong about that.
A bust in my mind would be someone who never reached their maximum potential and couldnt get over with fans. Just because your a main eventer with so much stock put into you that leaves for other endeavors doesn't mean your a bust.
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Post by Munkie91087 on Jul 1, 2009 17:34:35 GMT -5
Lesnar was not a bust by any means. He was over from the start and main evented and put on good matches almost his entire time in the fed, then he decided he wanted to move on to different things because of the schedule. He had out of this world matches with Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerero and even had good matches with Big Show. He feuded with everyone I think except Triple H and The Undertaker, though I could be wrong about that. A bust in my mind would be someone who never reached their maximum potential and couldnt get over with fans. Just because your a main eventer with so much stock put into you that leaves for other endeavors doesn't mean your a bust. Lesnar feuded with Taker. They had a brutal Hell in a Cell match to blow it off. |
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Parrish
El Dandy
Banana Man Wouldn't Book That!!!
Posts: 8,729
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Post by Parrish on Jul 1, 2009 23:48:43 GMT -5
Figured I was wrong on that
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