The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by The Line on Dec 26, 2008 13:06:00 GMT -5
Aries won the world title when he was "second fiddle", and that worked out pretty well.
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Post by DSR on Dec 26, 2008 13:36:19 GMT -5
Aries won the world title when he was "second fiddle", and that worked out pretty well. Technically, he had just become top dog when he won it, kicking Alex Shelley out of Gen Next earlier in the evening.
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
Posts: 36,698
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Post by The Line on Dec 26, 2008 13:40:32 GMT -5
Aries won the world title when he was "second fiddle", and that worked out pretty well. Technically, he had just become top dog when he won it, kicking Alex Shelley out of Gen Next earlier in the evening. well, he was still getting the title shot while the lackey.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Dec 26, 2008 16:18:50 GMT -5
Also lets not forget that there wasn't any real reason Punk should have gotten a title shot. He even mentioned this himself in the shoot with Joe.
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Post by Robbymac on Dec 26, 2008 16:47:38 GMT -5
I'm looking at it from the perspective of drawing money, which WWE does (though not as much as they used to). If Wrestler A either loses a bunch, doesn't have the best win/loss record, or faces talent that don't have the best win/loss record, why do they deserve a title shot? A guy like Bryan Danielson, who beat the champ, and beat a bunch of people to get to the champ, or was a former champ anyway, he deserves a title shot. Austin Aries deserves it. They're established. Again, if Black was brought in differently, it would be different. Does Jigsaw deserve a title shot? If everyone has a chance to get it, why doesn't he get a shot? Or Rhett Titus? Or Grizzly Redwood? Or Chaysan Rance? Or Shane Hagadorn? Or Bobby Dempsey? Do these people have a legit shot of winning it? There is still a hierarchy of challengers, and there should still be a line up of them, and some people deserve it more then others. Not everyone on the roster should be on even playing field. Everyone needs to be built, and I don't feel Tyler Black or El Generico were properly built when they receieved their shots. If the New York Giants are 9-7, Dallas Cowboys are 13-3, according to your theory, the Giants don't deserve a chance at the playoffs to beat three other teams and to dethrone the redhot New England Pats. Just because someone has somebody above them in the NFC East (or the Age Of The Fall) doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed the same chance to work their way up and beat the champion. First of all football is real and wrestling is fake. Second of all even if wrestling was real, its two different sports Third of all I believe his argument was more that the 5-11 Bills don't deserve that shot. Which they don't.
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
Posts: 36,698
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Post by The Line on Dec 26, 2008 18:05:25 GMT -5
Also lets not forget that there wasn't any real reason Punk should have gotten a title shot. He even mentioned this himself in the shoot with Joe. And, James Gibson was on a sizable losing streak when he got placed in the 4-way match. And Dragon had just come back that weekend when he won the title. And Morishima won the title in his second match in ROH. When you look at it, a lot of the title reigns started with "undeserved" title shots.
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Post by skiller on Dec 26, 2008 18:18:48 GMT -5
Also lets not forget that there wasn't any real reason Punk should have gotten a title shot. He even mentioned this himself in the shoot with Joe. And, James Gibson was on a sizable losing streak when he got placed in the 4-way match. And Dragon had just come back that weekend when he won the title. And Morishima won the title in his second match in ROH. When you look at it, a lot of the title reigns started with "undeserved" title shots. You can add Xavier to that list too. All I can seem to remember him doing before he won the title was beat Scoot Andrews a couple of times.
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Post by Zombie Pig on Dec 26, 2008 18:22:14 GMT -5
Also lets not forget that there wasn't any real reason Punk should have gotten a title shot. He even mentioned this himself in the shoot with Joe. And, James Gibson was on a sizable losing streak when he got placed in the 4-way match. And Dragon had just come back that weekend when he won the title. And Morishima won the title in his second match in ROH. When you look at it, a lot of the title reigns started with "undeserved" title shots. Very true especially about Morishima since he lost his first match in ROH the night before.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 26, 2008 19:31:17 GMT -5
Morishima was a big star in NOAH.
Dragon was in the company since the beginning.
Punk, another established star.
Gibson, another established star.
Xavier, an established star at the time.
Generico was one of the job guys for awhile until getting a permanent roster spot in 07 and doesn't have the best win/loss record as far as singles wrestling goes.
Black just got there months prior to getting his first title match, and at the time, as I've said before, was most definitely the second to Jimmy Jacobs. Unlike Morishima, he didn't have that much of a track record of being a big player before ROH. And if he was (I don't remember hearing about him until WSX), he was still being booked underling to Jimmy Jacobs. As I said before, I would have felt Joey Matthews would have been a good contender, but not as a lackey to Jimmy Jacobs.
I'll say it again. I'm not putting them down. I feel that Black will be a much stronger title contender once he gets away from Jimmy Jacobs. And Generico will be a much stronger contender if he gets more singles wins. But again, do you want main eventers wrestling for the belt, or midcarders. I'm just saying. At the time, they didn't deserve their particular title shots.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Dec 26, 2008 21:38:39 GMT -5
Punk wasn't truely an "established star" when he faced Joe the first time. It was more like if Davey Richards got a title shot five months ago.
I understand completely what you're saying Andrew, but that mindset is not how RoH functions.
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