Weak HBK angles

[Mayhem]

I've noticed this with several people, but it seems most apparent with Shawn Michaels. Has anyone noticed that, in recent years, his PPV angles are often very contrived and lame? In particular, I'm thinking of his mini-feuds with Kurt Angle, Hulk Hogan and the Undertaker. In each instance, the build to the match seemed very forced and weak. These don't need lame storylines added in (completely bearing a rushed feeling) because the fact that you have HBK v. Hogan or HBK v. 'Taker should be enough. There's no need for the little mind games and so on. The 'Taker-HBK deal, going into Wrestlemania, didn't feel like an epic feud that was coming to a head at WM. It felt like some half-assed attempt at creating drama in a situation where it wasn't needed. The match, itself, was the story. Sometimes, a big match should be enough, without a storyline to add anything to it. Sometimes, a title match should be only about both men wanting to be the champion, rather than some personal beef between the two, and sometimes two big names should just be able to go at it because of who they are, without the need to manufacture a storyline at the last minute. Anyone else get this feeling, or am I alone on this?

[Metalheadbanger Man]

I thought the "JBL's slave" angle was terrible to be honest.

[MGH]

I won't say you're alone on it, but I thought the feud build for Taker/Shawn this year was phenomenal. It had cheesy elements, but in a way that made it even better. The graveyard promo I'm speaking of. It hyped me more of the match than I was to begin with.

[Samoa Kenny]

I wasn't watching at the time, but didn't he Tag with Gd once?

[SmarkyMark]

Don't forget Shawn's tag team match with the All Mighty (not Marty Jannety) against Vince and Shane.

[The Karaoke King]

Jul 22, 2009 17:46:12 GMT -5 SmarkyMark said:

Don't forget Shawn's tag team match with the All Mighty (not Marty Jannety) against Vince and Shane.

Marty's high enough to be God.

[hbk4ever09]

I don't see it in Shawn in particular though. It's a common theme in WWE. It almost always has to be "personal"; that's boring after awhile. HBK/Hart ironman that wasn't "personal". It was two incredible performers who recognized the other's talent as well, and wanted to see who was the better man. That was cool.

[Mayhem]

Maybe I just notice it more with him, but I agree. A good personal angle can be entertaining. Hell, the Raven/Dreamer and Raven/Sandman feuds were very personal. However, since I used ECW as the example, Guerrero and Malenko were having a great series at the same time as the former, and it was based primarily on the ECW World TV Title and proving who was the best. As for the latter, there was also the Eliminators/Gangstas feud which, while it got heated, was always about the straps.

There's no reason everyone on the roster needs to be involved in some personal issue with someone else. I mean, the point of becoming a wrestler (kayfabe, at least) is to be the best and win titles. Of course, these days, the matches are secondary to the other nonsense going on so I guess I see how they forget this.

[rapidfire187]

The guy hasn't had many bad angles really, atleast not since his return in 2002. He's had good to great feuds with HHH, Jericho, Angle, Cena, Orton, Flair, and Undertaker over the past few years. The only feuds that really had lame storylines were the feuds with Vince McMahon and JBL. Atleast the Vince feud paid off with a really good Wrestlemania beating (not so much a match really), and the feud with JBL transitioned nicely into the Taker match.

[Crazy Diamond]

The whole "Boyhood Dream" thing was pretty lame. I wasn't a regular watcher of WWF because I was more into WCW, but when I saw it I thought "Who cares? It's everyone's dream to win the belt. I knew I shouldn't have watched this."

[Mayhem]

Jul 22, 2009 21:52:05 GMT -5 rapidfire187 said:

The guy hasn't had many bad angles really, atleast not since his return in 2002. He's had good to great feuds with HHH, Jericho, Angle, Cena, Orton, Flair, and Undertaker over the past few years. The only feuds that really had lame storylines were the feuds with Vince McMahon and JBL. Atleast the Vince feud paid off with a really good Wrestlemania beating (not so much a match really), and the feud with JBL transitioned nicely into the Taker match.

See, and the period since his return is what I'm mostly looking at. I didn't say all of them, but a good number. Take the Hogan deal, for example. It should have been a big deal because it's Hogan v. HBK. There was no need to have Michaels go semi-heelish and so on. In some cases, the match itself is enough to sell tickets. Fans don't need some b.s. to get them into the match because it's two big names going at it.

[Lancers]

Jul 22, 2009 17:49:43 GMT -5 The Karaoke King said:

Jul 22, 2009 17:46:12 GMT -5 SmarkyMark said:

Don't forget Shawn's tag team match with the All Mighty (not Marty Jannety) against Vince and Shane.

Marty's high enough to be God.

He sure is.

[kickassJP]

HBK and Jericho was one of the best feuds i've seen in a long time

[Mayhem]

Jul 23, 2009 1:41:54 GMT -5 kickassJP said:

HBK and Jericho was one of the best feuds i've seen in a long time

Yeah, Jericho carried him through the best feud he's had in ages. And, yes, I credit 90% of it to Jericho.

[southsider]

Jul 23, 2009 1:57:20 GMT -5 Mayhem said:

Jul 23, 2009 1:41:54 GMT -5 kickassJP said:

HBK and Jericho was one of the best feuds i've seen in a long time

Yeah, Jericho carried him through the best feud he's had in ages. And, yes, I credit 90% of it to Jericho.

Jericho's return was flopping in epic fashion before he was able to play off the overness of Shawn Michaels.

[dannyrctv]

The stupidest lamest most embarrassing angle I saw HBK in was when Stephanie Mcmahon spiked his bottled water. It made no sense! Isn't the camera man going to warn him? Couldn't J.R and the King sent someone back stage to alert him what she had done?
You mean they were just going to let him go out to the ring to face Shane and fall to pieces then get busted by Vince for being a drug addict when all the incriminating evidence against Stephanie was done knowingly in front of the camera??Oh that's right the camera really wasn't there this is scripted television. That's not how wrestling works and these are people with a rich history in wrestling hwo should no better than to do nonsense like this!

That's what I hate about "Sports Entertainment" an angle like that wouldn't happen in the kayfabe days it's like all the "Reality" in wrestling story telling has become more closer to watching a movie ora TV drama than a sporting event which is what it's supposed to be portrayed as.

[Joseph S. Hasan]

He had a short program with Chris Masters. Yegh.

I thought the HBK/ God vs. The McMahons thing was great- maybe not for business, but for reveling in how ridiculous Vince is.

[Bo Rida]

Jul 23, 2009 9:40:34 GMT -5 Joseph S. Hasan said:

He had a short program with Chris Masters. Yegh.

I can't remember much about the fued but they had a good match, it was only good thing about Chris Masters' run I liked.

[MGH]

Jul 23, 2009 1:57:20 GMT -5 Mayhem said:

Jul 23, 2009 1:41:54 GMT -5 kickassJP said:

HBK and Jericho was one of the best feuds i've seen in a long time

Yeah, Jericho carried him through the best feud he's had in ages. And, yes, I credit 90% of it to Jericho.

No offense, but the thought of someone carrying Shawn OR Jericho through anything is hard to stomach. That was the definition of two guys working to the best of their abilities, complimenting one another in every way. Crediting that feud to one of them alone doesn't fly at all. They're arguably still the two most talented guys on the roster today. Neither of them are in need of any crutch.

[MCMGM]

Jul 22, 2009 17:49:43 GMT -5 The Karaoke King said:

Jul 22, 2009 17:46:12 GMT -5 SmarkyMark said:

Don't forget Shawn's tag team match with the All Mighty (not Marty Jannety) against Vince and Shane.

Marty's high enough to be see God.

Fixed.