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Post by celtics543 on Aug 2, 2009 14:09:39 GMT -5
So I was sitting up last night thinking about why I used to like the WWE product so much more from like 1990-2002, and it all seemed to dawn on me. The first thing I noticed was that the brand split is killing the company. The main event feuds aren't fresh, because there isn't enough main event talent to go around. So here's what I was thinking. Combine Raw and Smackdown's rosters, while leaving ECW for a developmental brand that has mostly young guys who aren't quite ready, but also older guys on the downside. This would give us a great roster and really bolster the main event and the midcard. Just look:
Main Event: John Cena Randy Orton Jeff Hardy Undertaker Batista HBK HHH Edge Jericho Mysterio Big Show
Mid-Card: CM Punk John Morrison Kofi Kingston Shelton Benjamin Matt Hardy Mark Henry Christian Evan Bourne MVP Swagger Miz Santino Ziggler Kane R-Truth
Tag Teams: Cryme Tyme Jericho and Big Show Hart Dynasty Legacy *other tag teams would be needed, but we need them now anyways*
Everyone else is either in the lower midcard or on ECW.
This roster is pretty fantastic and would really allow a lot of new stuff to be done. It has just as much talent as any roster of the attitude era.
Now I'm sure many of you are amazed that I put CM Punk in the "Mid Card" section. Which brings me to my second point. I think guys are being pushed too fast. If you look at all the champions up to about the time of Brock Lesnar, they were all guys who had been around for a while. Guys like Bret, HBK, Austin, Foley, HHH, Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho and even Hogan, were all in their 30's when they won the title for the first time. They also all had great mid card careers. Other than Hogan, all the rest held lower titles before winning the world title. Now it seems that guys get pushed hard and within a year or so are given the world title. Where do you go from there? It's just burning out the talent and the fans will be bored with them by the time they hit 30. I think that guys like Punk, Cena, Orton, etc. could all have benefitted from more time in the mid card. I know that Orton held the IC and Cena the US title before they went on to the world title and Punk was ECW champion, but they never had that classic feud. Austin and Rock fought over the IC title well before either was heavyweight champ, and it made them more over with the crowd and made their eventual world title wins that much bigger. HBK and Bret each had separate feuds over the IC title before they moved on. Each was also part of a tag team for a while. Jericho, Benoit, and Guerrero, all had lower card titles and were seasoned vets by the time they got the world title.
I guess what I'm saying is that it seems to me that it would be better to build guys up by having them feud over mid card titles like the IC, US, ECW, or tag team championships. By giving them the world title so early, it pigeonholes them in that main event scene forever, because now if they go after the IC title, it will be seen as a step down.
This would come with recombining the rosters, because the top spots would be pretty much held by guys over thirty that have been around for a while and the midcard would be amazing, giving them time to have classic feuds and matches that will get them mega over with the crowd, and when it's time for them to be world champ, they'll be ready. Also it will not force the writers to hotshot anyone because they don't have the depth. The roster depth will be the greatest maybe of all time.
Thoughts?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2009 14:19:19 GMT -5
The Brand Spilt is made to make Three Separate Shows though
ECW,RAW and Smackdown have people who follow them and them exclusively There's quite a few people that would be released if the Brand Split ended and The Main Event would be Incredibly Clogged as would the Midcard
All the people you didn't list?
*Yoshi Tatsu *Primo Colon *Festus *Curt Hawkins *William Regal *Abraham Washington *Zack Ryder *Carlito *Ted Dibiase *Cody Rhodes *Ray Geezy *Charlie Haas *Kung Fu Naki *Jamie Noble *Ricky Ortiz *Ezekial Jackson *Mike Knox *Chavo Guerrero *Sheamus *Jimmy Wang Yang *DJ Gabriel *Paul Burchill *Tyler Reks *Cody Rhodes *Hurricane Helms *The Great Khali
Would all probably be fired and those you listed in the Midcard section would'nt get much time because they'd be ignored for the Massive Main Event scene
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Post by stevieraymark on Aug 2, 2009 14:28:32 GMT -5
im on the same page as you celtics543 not 5 minutes ago in the wwe needs to downsize thread i made this post
Today at 8:01pm, TC84 wrote: Today at 7:56pm, stevieraymark wrote: they needto end the brand split. then they would have the potential to be as good as they ever where
Ending the brand split would do more harm than good. Young guys like CM Punk and John Morrison would never be allowed to shine, and neither would veterans like Chris Jericho. It'd be all Triple H/Orton/Cena/Batista monopolizing the main event scene.
Not a chance look how big the roster was back in 2000 or so and they only had 2 shows to spread storylines across.
This way the younger talent could learn from lots of different people and wouldnt have to face the same people every week.
With more top stars around on the shows ratings would surely be helped as well and with a huge talent pool to choose from you wouldnt have to see hhh/cena/batista vs legacy every week because youd have all the other top stars around as well.
This would also mean the midcarders get a chance to be built up against more lower/midcard guys before being rushed into the main event too soon.
But to make this a sucess they would need to get rid of alot of people who just have no place on the roster or only give them a couple of mins every few weeks eg the womens division,chavo guererro,finlay,unfunny comedy segments and recap shows
I think it would make the product fantastic and certainly beats their current ideas for the brands which seems to be have everyone face each other til we cant take it anymore,draft lottery,repeat. Every time the lottery comes around we have seen every single possible match a brand could have done in an entire year ending the brand split surely puts an end to this.
i hope my punctuation wasnt too bad and you could actually make it through that
i think you mustve read my mind man
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"Hollywood" Cactus Matt
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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How do you spell "Goddess"? C-H-R-I-S-T-Y!
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Aug 2, 2009 15:07:39 GMT -5
Think about the first "boom period": the "Rock-n-Wrestling" days. Who were the main eventers?
Hulk Hogan Andre the Giant Randy Savage Ted DiBiase Roddy Piper
That was it.
The problem isn't roster size, or three brands, or "too many main eventers." The problem, IMO, is over-exposure of the big draws.
Think about this. When you turn on Raw, what do you expect to see? HHH, Randy Orton, John Cena, etc. The same guys who have been chasing the same title for several years now.
Now think back to the Rock-n-Wrestling era. How many times per week - or even per month - did you see Hulk Hogan or Andre the Giant on free, weekly TV? The answer is hardly ever. I can honestly count on one hand the number of times I saw Hogan, Andre, or Piper wrestle on a show like (the original) Superstars, and I'd still have some fingers left over.
Also, there is the problem brought on by high expectations. Back in the Attitude Era, WWE was pulling in 6.5 and 7.0 ratings weekly - and I really don't even know what that means, except that a lot of people were watching - because they went away from the above formula and started featuring DX, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, The Rock, Bret Hart, and their other main event-level talent on a weekly basis. They also got away from the squash match formula and went with (at the very least) midcarder vs. midcarder on every show, for nearly every match.
Throw in some drug addiction, some long-term and nagging injuries, and some guys who just get "tired of the business" (Brock Lesnar) and that shows what went wrong with the second formula.
So where do you reach a happy medium? For starters, you can take guys like John Cena, Triple H, and especially the WWE champion Randy Orton, and you can stop cramming them down our throats. Back in the day, everyone knew who the champion was because he was made to seem almost bigger than the entire business. Nowadays, he's being featured every week, sometimes for as much as half the show.
If WWE were to switch to a "protect our assets" mentality, guys like HHH, Cena and Orton could sit at home, do a pre-taped interview now and then, and rest themselves because they are human and can't keep going for years at a time, non-stop. (ask Batista, or Shawn Michaels, or the Undertaker.) Let the main event talent, the draws, the "guys that the fans pay to see," do just that: let them draw the money. It's called Pay-Per-View for a reason; it's because it should be something special. If all you have to do is wait another week to see your favorite guy again, why the hell should you shell out as much as $50 to see him every month?
And that's another thing: too many PPV's. IMO, it should be like this: Royal Rumble in January, WrestleMania in late-March or early-April, King of the Ring in June (and make the tournament mean something, like a title shot or even some year do an angle where the IC title is vacant and the winner gets the title), SummerSlam in August, and Survivor Series in November. That's still every couple of months, which gives them time to build feuds and feature the "draws," but isn't over-saturating the main eventers and allows mid-carders to get over on their own.
I say stuff like this all the time, but I really do think that they are going about booking the main event scene - and as a result, the midcard scene - all wrong, and that taking a step or two backwards can allow WWE to take several leaps and bounds forward when the time is right.
I dunno ... someone came into the room just now and I lost my original train of thought, but it's nothing that I haven't said before and I will continue to say it until it starts to happen ..... at which point, I will find another game plan to get behind, and will repeat that one ad nauseum. ;D
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Post by celtics543 on Aug 2, 2009 20:12:46 GMT -5
The Brand Spilt is made to make Three Separate Shows though ECW,RAW and Smackdown have people who follow them and them exclusively There's quite a few people that would be released if the Brand Split ended and The Main Event would be Incredibly Clogged as would the Midcard All the people you didn't list? *Yoshi Tatsu *Primo Colon *Festus *Curt Hawkins *William Regal *Abraham Washington *Zack Ryder *Carlito *Ted Dibiase *Cody Rhodes *Ray Geezy *Charlie Haas *Kung Fu Naki *Jamie Noble *Ricky Ortiz *Ezekial Jackson *Mike Knox *Chavo Guerrero *Sheamus *Jimmy Wang Yang *DJ Gabriel *Paul Burchill *Tyler Reks *Cody Rhodes *Hurricane Helms *The Great Khali Would all probably be fired and those you listed in the Midcard section would'nt get much time because they'd be ignored for the Massive Main Event scene They wouldn't be fired, I am saying that ECW would probably be the best destination for all of them. ECW would still kind of be on its own. A place for young guys to get time. I also forgot about a few, Khali would be midcard as would Carlito. I have legacy down under the "tag team" heading, so that takes care of Cody and Ted. The rest I just feel would be guys that need seasoning before entering the midcard, or are vets that can do some teaching to those guys. Remember that in the main event scene, a lot of those guys are part time or near retirement. HBK, Taker, Batista, and HHH are all either part time or close to the end. The only young main eventers are Cena, Orton, and Hardy, and we all know that Hardy has been rumored to want a break. I just think that keeping the matchups fresh would be better, rather than having three or four guys on each brand that are in main events every month. This way it can be kept fresh. The roster was huge from like 1985-1992 and again from like 1998-right before the split, and that never held down the midcard. The midcard would just be stronger. Some guys would get depushed, but that would make for more entertainment overall. If some guys get released, it would suck and I'd feel bad, but it would be because they just weren't getting the job done. I just think that with that much talent, the titles would mean more as the competition would be that much better, and you could even add a Hardcore title or a European title to give the lower card guys something to do. So pretty much Raw and Smackdown would have the same roster, ECW would be more developmental, and Superstars can stay as it is now. More or less a version of Sunday Night Heat. This would give guys more time off because brands would rely less on them, and keep them more rested. It would give guys time to become seasoned, and they'd be ready when they became world champions. Fans would buy it and would have that emotional attatchment because they watched them work their way up. That's why I like Bret, Shawn, and Austin. You could see their progression. They weren't hot shotted to the main title, you could follow them winning the IC title, King of the Ring, Royal Rumbles etc. and then finally accomplishing that dream and winning the world title. Now compare that to someone like Brock Lesnar, who was given the world title in less than a year. I didn't have that attatchment, and therefore it made the reign less interesting. And StevieRayMark, I haven't read any of that thread, so its not like I read your idea and decided to make a new thread, but that's wicked weird. I guess great minds think alike. ;D
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Post by Lionheart on Aug 2, 2009 20:16:29 GMT -5
Hey look, "End the brand split" threads are in vogue again.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Aug 2, 2009 20:32:16 GMT -5
If the main event feuds aren't fresh, why did you keep the guys they've been using for several years in the main event? Even Hogan didn't main event for 10 straight years in the WWF.
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Post by celtics543 on Aug 2, 2009 21:05:32 GMT -5
Sorry, I didn't say that right. I meant that the feuds on each brand aren't fresh. I'd love to see things like Jeff Hardy vs Batista, HBK, or Cena. Just switch it up a bit and keep it fresh. How about HHH vs Mysterio or Undertaker, both fresh. HBK vs Mysterio, Edge, or Big Show. Just having those guys together would make it more fresh.
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