|
|
Post by Lance Uppercut on Sept 4, 2005 23:29:48 GMT -5
guys that didn't get over in WWf first?
I think he honestly wants them to do well, since he signed them. I think it's just incompetence. He sees something good, and thinks to himself "hey he's pretty good, I bet I could do even better with them".
So... long rant made short, I don't think these ecw/wcw guys failed cause they were from ecw/wcw. I think Vince is just a Moron. Plus in Ecw, some of them weren't as great as Paul Heyman made them out ot be.
|
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Sept 4, 2005 23:32:49 GMT -5
Well, unlike someone like Heyman, Vince is not an expert in getting the most out of his performers, even his less talented ones.
I tend to think it's a combination of both incompetence and a deep-seeded desire to be the man who "made" stars. But Vince just isn't a creative genius, period.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Deadly Snake on Sept 4, 2005 23:36:28 GMT -5
Well, unlike someone like Heyman, Vince is not an expert in getting the most out of his performers, even his less talented ones. I tend to think it's a combination of both incompetence and a deep-seeded desire to be the man who "made" stars. But Vince just isn't a creative genius, period. Yeah. He's a guy a guy who knows how to crush the competition, and just knows enough about wrestling to market wrestling really well. But while he is good marketer, he ain't the best booker, writer, or creative genius. Only a marketing genius by wrestling standards. |
|
|
|
Post by invaderdave on Sept 4, 2005 23:42:24 GMT -5
I'd like to direct you to one, Dusty Rhodes. He had one of the top, most famous wrestlers in the world, and made a fool out of him due to a foolish...something or other. I don't know what emotion made him screw around with Rhodes, but man it must have been powerful.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lance Uppercut on Sept 4, 2005 23:44:18 GMT -5
I'd like to direct you to one, Dusty Rhodes. He had one of the top, most famous wrestlers in the world, and made a fool out of him due to a foolish...something or other. I don't know what emotion made him screw around with Rhodes, but man it must have been powerful. Well he did get over. And according to Dusty's book, the polka dots were his idea. |
|
|
|
Post by invaderdave on Sept 4, 2005 23:49:24 GMT -5
True, but, and I'm not trying to be a punk, it didn't change the fact that Vince wanted him to fail and fail hard.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lance Uppercut on Sept 4, 2005 23:50:36 GMT -5
o yeah, he's an ass no doubt.
The whole Dudley dilemma is pretty petty considering they could fall under "guy's that were already over before coming to wwe" that they made bigger.
|
|
|
|
Post by marvelocity on Sept 5, 2005 0:24:51 GMT -5
He also put Ricky Steamboat in a dragon outfit, Harley Race in a crown, and Shane Helms in a superhero outfit (although this did get over). It's almost like Vince says "Sure, you were over in another company, but let's see how you do with this gimmic". Like he thinks he can make legendary careers (Steamboat and Race) even better.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lance Uppercut on Sept 5, 2005 0:25:52 GMT -5
He also put Ricky Steamboat in a dragon outfit, Harley Race in a crown, and Shane Helms in a superhero outfit (although this did get over). It's almost like Vince says "Sure, you were over in another company, but let's see how you do with this gimmic". Like he thinks he can make legendary careers (Steamboat and Race) even better. you know what's odd? didn't Ricky already work there before as just "Ricky sTeamboat"? Did he think people forgot who he was? I mean did change his own guy, Tito Santana into a matador. I'll give you Harley Race, but regular Shane helms (I forgot his other name suprsiingly) wouldn't get him halfway as far as Hurricane Helms. Not to mention this is one of those "extension off real personality" gimmicks. So he might have a hand in it's creation. Btw, What was the his pre-hurricane, wwe name? I can't believe I forgot it. |
|
|
|
Post by marvelocity on Sept 5, 2005 0:32:21 GMT -5
Btw, What was the his pre-hurricane, wwe name? I can't believe I forgot it. Gregory Helmes. He wrestled under this name for one match, just to drop the Cruiserweight Title to Kidman (I thought Helmes was done at that point-how wrong I was). |
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Sept 5, 2005 0:43:01 GMT -5
he wrestled like twice as Hurricane Helms
Hence The Hurricane.
|
|
EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bird...Birdie...birdie......Tiger...Tiger Tiger.....
R2C2 Reporting for duty
Posts: 17,355
|
Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Sept 5, 2005 2:30:50 GMT -5
Speaking of which, is he going to have to change his name now? or are they just going to take him off of TV.
I think for the bigger stars, yes he does, unless you are Ric Flair. But for the lesser stars, its more of they were big fish in a small pond then became little fish in a big pond.
|
|
|
|
Post by Banned Member on Sept 5, 2005 3:07:05 GMT -5
Speaking of which, is he going to have to change his name now? or are they just going to take him off of TV. I think for the bigger stars, yes he does, unless you are Ric Flair. But for the lesser stars, its more of they were big fish in a small pond then became little fish in a big pond. Did they change EarthQuakes name no. So why change Hurricanes,and Spike isnt whiney ass UPN. |
|
EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bird...Birdie...birdie......Tiger...Tiger Tiger.....
R2C2 Reporting for duty
Posts: 17,355
|
Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Sept 5, 2005 3:36:06 GMT -5
oh won't bother me if the do or don't. But if i remember right, when they were about to turn Hurricane heel a year ago, they said they didn't b/c of the Hurricanes hitting Florida (take that for what its worth). I didn't know if they would use this time to try to give him a new gimick or something.
|
|
|
|
Post by "Sweet & Sour" ImSoFudginGreat on Sept 5, 2005 5:16:25 GMT -5
Time to bring back Sugar Shane Helms (Although they won't because of Shane O Mac & Helms sounding a bit like Helmsley (In Creatives eyes) so it probably won't happen)
|
|
|
|
Post by Wrath Draven on Sept 5, 2005 6:05:55 GMT -5
You guys make it seem like Vince McMahon writes the scripts or something. Plus do we not forget all the guys he took outta other company's Austin, Foley, Jericho, plus when u mention the Hurricane this is the most over he has ever been with the fans.
|
|
|
|
Post by destrucity on Sept 5, 2005 6:10:36 GMT -5
He built his empire on guys that Verne Gagne made stars
|
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Sept 5, 2005 7:24:15 GMT -5
You guys make it seem like Vince McMahon writes the scripts or something. Plus do we not forget all the guys he took outta other company's Austin, Foley, Jericho, plus when u mention the Hurricane this is the most over he has ever been with the fans. He has the final say over scripts. And Foley, Austin, Jericho, et. al., by and large, developed their own star characters. |
|
|
|
Post by Lance Uppercut on Sept 6, 2005 19:34:50 GMT -5
According to Harley Race, on an interview with the LAW he gave sunday, The King gimmick was his idea, and Vince McMahon let him have a lot of creative control with it during his rung.
His thing was, "He's done it all. The NWA champion 8 times already. How can he make himself a bigger deal? What's above a champion? A king".
|
|
Phoenix
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
He's back and better than ever!
Fear The Desecrator
Posts: 18,958
|
Post by Phoenix on Sept 6, 2005 19:39:31 GMT -5
Time to bring back Sugar Shane Helms (Although they won't because of Shane O Mac & Helms sounding a bit like Helmsley (In Creatives eyes) so it probably won't happen) maybe he could accidently get a huge push that way though |
|
