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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Oct 8, 2009 22:15:49 GMT -5
Sam0... explain why people in your country thought it was a good idea to put black face on the television. I mean really, come the snork on. www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/10/08/harry.connick.blackface/index.htmlOh and why the hell is the news that harry connick jr. was shocked by this. Shouldn't that just be a normal reaction by this point? |
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Pink Lloyd
Bubba Ho-Tep
Welcome to the Machine
Posts: 563
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Post by Pink Lloyd on Oct 8, 2009 22:18:18 GMT -5
You got to remember the Australians just started treating Aborigines with some respect.
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Post by G✇JI☈A on Oct 8, 2009 22:24:30 GMT -5
From a Crapper living in Australia:
Those racist dickheads at Channel 9 don't speak for the rest of us.
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Post by BlackJackRobby on Oct 8, 2009 22:27:00 GMT -5
The country that will ban anything that is somewhat violent in a video game does not know how to deal with racism and ignorance, that is funny.
Way to be 1979 Austrialia!
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Oct 8, 2009 22:38:57 GMT -5
As horrible as that was, I did like the look of Harry Connick Jr.'s face.  He just doesn't know what to do. |
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Jay Peas 42
El Dandy
Totally flips out ALL the time.
Is looking forward to a Nation of Domination Kwannza Special.
Posts: 8,329 
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Oct 8, 2009 23:04:51 GMT -5
Um, yeah. The reason we don't do blackface in this country is because African Americans have asked us not too on the grounds that find it offensive on the grounds that it mocks them and perpetuates demeaning stereotypes. Why should Aussies care one wit about American racial issues? Just because all Anglos look alike doesn't mean we tell what's what. The Chinese and the Japanese seem to find a good amount of humor in it (see Popo, Mr.). The Aussies like to pretend that they are asian this week.
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Stotty
Unicron
This is what happens when you don't give Taker the hot tag
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Post by Stotty on Oct 8, 2009 23:34:18 GMT -5
The guys dressed up are all doctors from sydney, and none are of Anglo saxon descent, Most of them are Indian. The Black face wasn't a racial thing, it was simply an impersonation of a black man.
If I wanted to do an impression of a man with a big nose, I'd put a big prosthetic nose on. I don't see it as being any different to that, and i think the people involved in the skit were thinking the same way.
Also, to set the scene, this was a 10 year reunion of a very popular tv show that ran for over 25 years. The Michael Jackson skit was a remake of a famous skit from about 15 yeras earlier, featuring the same performers.
And as for "Australian's just starting treating Aborigines with respect" I take offense to that. We've certainly had our racial issues over the years, but our human rights, and racial equality record is no better or worse than a lot of countries in the western world.
Blackface carries a stigma in America that doesn't exist down here. This wasn't a racial issue until it was turned into one.
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Oct 8, 2009 23:51:16 GMT -5
The guys dressed up are all doctors from sydney, and none are of Anglo saxon descent, Most of them are Indian. The Black face wasn't a racial thing, it was simply an impersonation of a black man. If I wanted to do an impression of a man with a big nose, I'd put a big prosthetic nose on. I don't see it as being any different to that, and i think the people involved in the skit were thinking the same way. ok I'm going to stop you right there. no doing what they did is racist, it's not imitation it's snorking racist. if you wanted to make yourself look black you wouldn't actually paint yourself the color black because no one, not even wesley snipes, is that dark skinned. I mean I give the japanese a pass because they truly don't understand that stuff like mr. popo and ganguro can be conceived as racist by a western audience. They don't speak the same language natively and they were cut off from the rest of the world when these racist caricatures were surfacing. Australia speaks the same language and has ties to britain in which some of these caricatures originated. There is no excuse for people in australia to not know that this is offensive. |
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Oct 9, 2009 0:05:30 GMT -5
The guys dressed up are all doctors from sydney, and none are of Anglo saxon descent, Most of them are Indian. The Black face wasn't a racial thing, it was simply an impersonation of a black man. If I wanted to do an impression of a man with a big nose, I'd put a big prosthetic nose on. I don't see it as being any different to that, and i think the people involved in the skit were thinking the same way. ok I'm going to stop you right there. no doing what they did is racist, it's not imitation it's snorking racist. if you wanted to make yourself look black you wouldn't actually paint yourself the color black because no one, not even wesley snipes, is that dark skinned. I mean I give the japanese a pass because they truly don't understand that stuff like mr. popo and ganguro can be conceived as racist by a western audience. They don't speak the same language natively and they were cut off from the rest of the world when these racist caricatures were surfacing. Australia speaks the same language and has ties to britain in which some of these caricatures originated. There is no excuse for people in australia to not know that this is offensive. Well first of all, there ARE a few people that black. Not many, but they do exist. Secondly, about Mr. Popo, he is NOT a racist caricature. He's just a freaking genie. As for Ganguro, that too isn't racist. They do it to look like the heavily tanned blonde women in California. I think the fact that people are quick to assume things are racist shows their own racial insecurities, of course not saying you are doing this, though. Personally, I am not making too much out of this. Should they have not done it? Well that would be preferable, but hey, if Robert Downey Jr. could get away with black face and make a lot of money off of it, I say these guys shouldn't be beat down too harshly. |
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Post by Crazy Diamond on Oct 9, 2009 0:05:31 GMT -5
Um, yeah. The reason we don't do blackface in this country is because African Americans have asked us not too on the grounds that find it offensive on the grounds that it mocks them and perpetuates demeaning stereotypes. Why should Aussies care one wit about American racial issues? Just because all Anglos look alike doesn't mean we tell what's what. The Chinese and the Japanese seem to find a good amount of humor in it (see Popo, Mr.). The Aussies like to pretend that they are asian this week. It's galling that people around the world seem to have bought into the racist and stereotypical caricatures of black people which have been promoted for decades. I think it's a cheap cop-out to say "Oh, we didn't KNOW any better." What it implies is that ignorance is an excuse for racism. Racism is not unique to the United States and I'm not going to go any further because I would probably end up going into the politics behind this stereotypical garbage. Props on Harry for taking a stand. |
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Oct 9, 2009 0:11:57 GMT -5
As horrible as that was, I did like the look of Harry Connick Jr.'s face. He just doesn't know what to do. I propose this be the new craze here at the Crap. Anytime someone posts something offensive, someone else posts this picture of Harry Connick Jr. |
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Oct 9, 2009 0:12:55 GMT -5
Well first of all, there ARE a few people that black. Not many, but they do exist. dude seriously... snorking people in africa are not the color black. I'm pretty sure that it's impossible for any human to actually be the color black. I wasn't specifically saying that mr. popo is a racist caricature in terms of character. But he is the archetypal Pickaninny in terms of design. The same counts for the pokemon jynx. According to wikipedia it literally translates to blackface girl. Yes they don't do it to intentionally be racist but still. |
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Oct 9, 2009 0:22:02 GMT -5
Well first of all, there ARE a few people that black. Not many, but they do exist. dude seriously... snorking people in africa are not the color black. I'm pretty sure that it's impossible for any human to actually be the color black. I wasn't specifically saying that mr. popo is a racist caricature in terms of character. But he is the archetypal Pickaninny in terms of design. The same counts for the pokemon jynx. According to wikipedia it literally translates to blackface girl. Yes they don't do it to intentionally be racist but still. Yeah, but dude, how many people are going to know what the word Ganguro translates to? Not enough to raise such a fit over it. And dude, trust me, I went to high school with some guys who were pitch black. Whenever I had class with them it was like the Abyss was staring back at me, so to speak(meaning the only distinguishing feature on their faces were their eyes). As for Jynx, she's another misunderstood creature. She's just a Ganguro girl. Like Stotty said. It doesn't become an issue of race until people make it an issue of race. Another recent example of this was Scribblenauts and the whole "sambo" controversy. I see nothing wrong with it because I know damn well the developers wouldn't put in a racist term on purpose. They just used it because sambo is the name of a type of squash/gourd in Ecuador. The real problem is they reused the picture they used for watermelon in the game for sambo. Actually in real life sambo and watermelons like similar anyways. Then some guy on a little tiny gaming blog made a big deal about it, claiming it to be racist and contacted Kotaku about it, and then Kotaku used 3 of their highest ranking editors to do a massive research into the racist meaning behind sambo and thus thanks to one little spit f*** who decided to make it racist, the guys behind Scribblenauts got some bad publicity after their most hyped game just came out. Something is racist only if you let it be. |
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Stotty
Unicron
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Post by Stotty on Oct 9, 2009 0:30:13 GMT -5
I think what people are missing is that this wasn't a joke at the expense of a black man. It was simply an impression of a black man. And yes, the skin tone was darker than Michael Jackson's, but when someone does an impression of Barack Obama, they put on big ears. They don't do an exact replica of Obama's ears, they make them ridiculoously big to indicate that this is a caricature, and a satirical impersonation.
Again, I say that there were no racial overtones whatsoever, until the media made it a racial issue. I applaud Harry Connick Jnr for taking a stand against something he feels is wrong. But you have to view the incident in the context of its audience. In Australia, the skit had no racial overtones whatsoever, audience polls have indicated that the Australian audience were not offended by the skit.
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Post by mrwednesdaynight on Oct 9, 2009 0:34:15 GMT -5
Is there really a controversy here? White people should be dressing up like black people. Case closed. As for Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder, that was kind of the point of the character. The character was meant to make a point. Dressing up to spoof the Jackson 5 has no socal commentary qualities. I think we need to ship many copies of Bamboozled, the Spike Lee movie, to Australia stat!
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Oct 9, 2009 0:55:05 GMT -5
Another recent example of this was Scribblenauts and the whole "sambo" controversy. I see nothing wrong with it because I know damn well the developers wouldn't put in a racist term on purpose. They just used it because sambo is the name of a type of squash/gourd in Ecuador. The real problem is they reused the picture they used for watermelon in the game for sambo. Actually in real life sambo and watermelons like similar anyways. Then some guy on a little tiny gaming blog made a big deal about it, claiming it to be racist and contacted Kotaku about it, and then Kotaku used 3 of their highest ranking editors to do a massive research into the racist meaning behind sambo and thus thanks to one little spit f*** who decided to make it racist, the guys behind Scribblenauts got some bad publicity after their most hyped game just came out. Something is racist only if you let it be. no the scribblenauts thing is BS to me because SOMEONE had to look up the word sambo and see that it was a racial term and then decide that it should be in the game. and for more on that subject, read this gamasutra article written by Ian Bogost the Assistant Professor of Literature Communication and Culture at Georgia Institute of Technology. www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4140/persuasive_games_little_black_.phpI would elaborate more but he pretty much says my exact thoughts on the entire issue and I'd much rather see you have an argument with him on the matter. |
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Oct 9, 2009 1:13:20 GMT -5
Another recent example of this was Scribblenauts and the whole "sambo" controversy. I see nothing wrong with it because I know damn well the developers wouldn't put in a racist term on purpose. They just used it because sambo is the name of a type of squash/gourd in Ecuador. The real problem is they reused the picture they used for watermelon in the game for sambo. Actually in real life sambo and watermelons like similar anyways. Then some guy on a little tiny gaming blog made a big deal about it, claiming it to be racist and contacted Kotaku about it, and then Kotaku used 3 of their highest ranking editors to do a massive research into the racist meaning behind sambo and thus thanks to one little spit f*** who decided to make it racist, the guys behind Scribblenauts got some bad publicity after their most hyped game just came out. Something is racist only if you let it be. no the scribblenauts thing is BS to me because SOMEONE had to look up the word sambo and see that it was a racial term and then decide that it should be in the game. and for more on that subject, read this gamasutra article written by Ian Bogost the Assistant Professor of Literature Communication and Culture at Georgia Institute of Technology. www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4140/persuasive_games_little_black_.phpI would elaborate more but he pretty much says my exact thoughts on the entire issue and I'd much rather see you have an argument with him on the matter. Dude, they didn't put it into the game because it was a racist term. They put it in because it is a freaking Ecuadorian squash! I didn't know it was a racist term, and hell one thing I noticed reading the comment section on any site that posted the story, most people don't know that it was a racist term, either. In terms of racist meaning, sambo became forgotten. Until someone turned the none racist use into thinking the developers meant it as racist. No one at 5th Cell looked at the term and said, "Hey this is a racist term! However, it is also the name of a vegetable/fruit, but it is an obscure name. We can use the word and still have an alibi for it!" It is something blown way out of proportion and actually shows just how quickly Americans are to think of stereotypes. I see nothing wrong with sambo being in the game, because it, you know, has more than one meaning. Anyone who does make a big deal about it is making something out of nothing. While I agree for the most part with Mr. Bogost on most of the things in his article, I don't like how he implies that the devs put the word in knowing that it was a racial term just to invoke the idea of racism. They didn't put it in on purpose for that reason, they didn't know the "real" meaning(the fact that you actually have to RESEARCH it means it isn't common knowledge anymore), and they didn't put it in for the purpose he is implying. |
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Oct 9, 2009 1:26:27 GMT -5
no the scribblenauts thing is BS to me because SOMEONE had to look up the word sambo and see that it was a racial term and then decide that it should be in the game. and for more on that subject, read this gamasutra article written by Ian Bogost the Assistant Professor of Literature Communication and Culture at Georgia Institute of Technology. www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4140/persuasive_games_little_black_.phpI would elaborate more but he pretty much says my exact thoughts on the entire issue and I'd much rather see you have an argument with him on the matter. Dude, they didn't put it into the game because it was a racist term. They put it in because it is a freaking Ecuadorian squash! I didn't know it was a racist term, and hell one thing I noticed reading the comment section on any site that posted the story, most people don't know that it was a racist term, either. In terms of racist meaning, sambo became forgotten. Until someone turned the none racist use into thinking the developers meant it as racist. No one at 5th Cell looked at the term and said, "Hey this is a racist term! However, it is also the name of a vegetable/fruit, but it is an obscure name. We can use the word and still have an alibi for it!" It is something blown way out of proportion and actually shows just how quickly Americans are to think of stereotypes. I see nothing wrong with sambo being in the game, because it, you know, has more than one meaning. Anyone who does make a big deal about it is making something out of nothing. While I agree for the most part with Mr. Bogost on most of the things in his article, I don't like how he implies that the devs put the word in knowing that it was a racial term just to invoke the idea of racism. They didn't put it in on purpose for that reason, they didn't know the "real" meaning(the fact that you actually have to RESEARCH it means it isn't common knowledge anymore), and they didn't put it in for the purpose he is implying. well the thing is koda... there's this dictionary.reference.com/browse/sambothe squash doesn't even come up when you use dictionary.com. I mean hell, it would make more sense for an MMA fighter to appear if you were going by the webster dictionary: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/samboEven stranger when I type in the word on wikipedia what comes up first is the racial term: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samboalso a sandwhich comes up, no mention of the squash. oh and encyclopedia Britannica just has the fighting style listed: www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/520426/samboIronically, the only source I have on sambo being a squash is from the developer of scribblenaughts. |
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Oct 9, 2009 1:29:12 GMT -5
Dude, they didn't put it into the game because it was a racist term. They put it in because it is a freaking Ecuadorian squash! I didn't know it was a racist term, and hell one thing I noticed reading the comment section on any site that posted the story, most people don't know that it was a racist term, either. In terms of racist meaning, sambo became forgotten. Until someone turned the none racist use into thinking the developers meant it as racist. No one at 5th Cell looked at the term and said, "Hey this is a racist term! However, it is also the name of a vegetable/fruit, but it is an obscure name. We can use the word and still have an alibi for it!" It is something blown way out of proportion and actually shows just how quickly Americans are to think of stereotypes. I see nothing wrong with sambo being in the game, because it, you know, has more than one meaning. Anyone who does make a big deal about it is making something out of nothing. While I agree for the most part with Mr. Bogost on most of the things in his article, I don't like how he implies that the devs put the word in knowing that it was a racial term just to invoke the idea of racism. They didn't put it in on purpose for that reason, they didn't know the "real" meaning(the fact that you actually have to RESEARCH it means it isn't common knowledge anymore), and they didn't put it in for the purpose he is implying. well the thing is koda... there's this dictionary.reference.com/browse/sambothe squash doesn't even come up when you use dictionary.com. I mean hell, it would make more sense for an MMA fighter to appear if you were going by the webster dictionary: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/samboEven stranger when I type in the word on wikipedia what comes up first is the racial term: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samboalso a sandwhich comes up, no mention of the squash. oh and encyclopedia Britannica just has the fighting style listed: www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/520426/samboIronically, the only source I have on sambo being a squash is from the developer of scribblenaughts. From the wikipedia page about the squash in question: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucurbita_ficifoliaCommon Names * Asian pumpkin * fig-leaf gourd (also fig-leafed or fig-leaved gourd) * Malabar gourd or squash * pie melon (in Australia and New Zealand) * shark fin melon (in Asia) * Siam pumpkin * Thai marrow * sambo (in Ecuador) |
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Oct 9, 2009 1:35:34 GMT -5
From the wikipedia page about the squash in question: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucurbita_ficifoliaCommon Names * Asian pumpkin * fig-leaf gourd (also fig-leafed or fig-leaved gourd) * Malabar gourd or squash * pie melon (in Australia and New Zealand) * shark fin melon (in Asia) * Siam pumpkin * Thai marrow * sambo (in Ecuador)but koda take a step back here. if you were working on the game and you looked at all the sources I just posted what item would you put in when someone typed in the word sambo? |
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