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Post by Lucky Duck on Sept 26, 2005 23:06:15 GMT -5
. And how come the ratings haven't spiked without him? Here's why. Because when the WWE was hot, it was because they had multiple main eventers capable of holding the crowds attention. And don't say "well WWE doesn't have that much talent anymore" cause it's not true. The bottom line is this. The reason there were a wealth of credible contenders during the attitude era is simple. Established stars helped build others into established stars. Bret helped build Austin, who in turn helped build The Rock. Taker helped build Mick Foley, who in turn helped build....you guessed it...HHH. Since the HHH era began, who has he built. Orton by association....eh...to an extent, but Orton's fued with Foley is really what made him a maineventer, Batista.....yep. He's the only one HHH really "made" in the last couple of years. Every other contender to HHH's title was made to look foolish at H's expense. He had the opportunity to build Booker T, RVD, Orton, Jericho, Kane and to a lesser extent Test. Guess what, He didn't. He made them all look like they were inferior to him. That's great for putting yourself over, but not so great for the business. You wanna know why ratings haven't spiked since he left, because he didn't help groom anyone but Batista to help share the load. Pshew....that got long......Sorry for the rant.
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Post by skyday1402 on Sept 26, 2005 23:13:06 GMT -5
Of those that you named, only Jericho was worthy of being built up by Triple H. Why put someone over who isn't deserving of holding the top spot? It makes no sense. When Triple H does put someone over, it's huge. So let's put midcard jobbers like RVD, Kane, and Orton over and make it less meaningful when he does put someone over. What the hell was a Batista before he feuded with Triple H? Nothing. He's only as big as he is now because it means something when you go over Triple H.
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Post by jack22 on Sept 26, 2005 23:17:45 GMT -5
Well I think its fair to blame a ratings decline on a guy who has been pushed to the top so hard and STILL rejected so wholeheartedly by the audience. It's like saying "Well you can't give Hogan credit for the Hulkamania boom, he just had good storylines" - rubbish Austin and Hogan were a huge factor as to why wrestling took off in those eras because the number 1 public face of the show as they were and HHH is plays a big part in either attracting or turning off viewers.
But the thing is that I think I could stomach HHH being WWE's golden boy IF there was a logical argument for it. If he was pulling in the ratings and the buyrates then I could maybe perhaps accept that there's a reason why this guy who bores me stupid is on TV every week - but there isn't. So again I ask WHY has he been constantly the top guy in the company?
It's not because he busts his ass, or he has a good work ethic because Kurt Angle does that yet he isn't the 98th time world champion. We have as much evidence of Kurt Angle being a ratings draw that we do HHH yet Kurt isn't the one who has been pushed these past three years as the number 1 company man - why is that?
Chris Benoit is no less of a ratings drag than HHH is and he has a great worth ethic, perhaps a better one than Trips, AND he busts his ass night after night - so why hasn't he been constantly main eventing for the past three years?
Shawn Michaels - he CAN produce buyrates and his ratings drawing power is virtually the same as HHH, he can perform better than HHH, he can sell just as many tickets as HHH - so why hasn't he been given the same kind of push HHH has been given?
And the list goes on...guys who can work in the ring, can entertain a crowd and who have a ratings record that HHH cannot better yet it is only ONE guy who is constanstly the focus of the telelvision shows. And excuse me if I think that if that guy happens to be married to the individual in charge of formatting those TV shows and the son in law of the man who owns the company and the very man who less than a month ago when asked who would take over the company when he was gone he telling replied with a mention of HHH's surname, and when the man himself has been performing the duties of a road agent and booker in recent months then yeah - I damn sure as hell don;t think just glossing over the fact that he's banging Steph as if it has no bearing on his standing in the company nor his ever-presense on the TV show, is the greatest rebuttle in the world.
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Phoenix
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
He's back and better than ever!
Fear The Desecrator
Posts: 18,958
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Post by Phoenix on Sept 26, 2005 23:20:52 GMT -5
1. OMG i agree with Jack on something i never thoutght that would happen
2. The Drowning Pool guy was on heroin the whole time he was a t Indy Ozzfest. Trust me i was there. He just couldnt handle those great Indiana drugs
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Post by Lucky Duck on Sept 26, 2005 23:22:52 GMT -5
Of those that you named, only Jericho was worthy of being built up by Triple H. Why put someone over who isn't deserving of holding the top spot? It makes no sense. Because you don't know whether or not they would be deserving of the top spot without putting them over. Booker T was the only credible main-eventer in WCW when it closed. He was getting great crowd reactions during the build up to WM, but he lost the match and the feud was dropped, costing him all his crediblity. RVD, while a bit sloppy in the ring, consistantly gets some of the loudest reactions of any superstar. Kane proved several years ago that he can work, and if pushed correctly as a monster he is an incredibly credible main eventer. Orton was the hottest heel on the roster when his abrupt face turn happened. Rather than giving him a decent amount of time to adjust and slowly break from Evolution, HHH's title victory over him at Unforgiven was hotshotted because HHH convinced the office that Orton wasn't ready. Of the one's I named, I would argue that only Test was not quite ready for the main event. Who knows though. If the feud with HHH over Steph would have panned out, he may have become wildly popular. No one knows, cause it was nixed. It's easy to say now that "None of them were worthy" when they have had their crediblity crushed. Even if, just for the sake of argument, I concede that only Jericho was worthy....it still proves my argument correct. HHH basically crapped on him during their feud and Jericho (despite enormous crowd reactions) fell to the middle of the card to feud with other HHH cast off's . Edit: Another reason why HHH's dominance is bad for ratings. HHH is a natural heel. Marks don't like heels. Marks make up (regardless of how important we smarks think we are) the large majority of the wrestling audience. Fans love to see the face challenger chase a heel champion....this is true. But once he gets there, they wanna see him win. During the time period from 2003-2004 they very rarely did. They would chase....then HHH would make them look foolish. Fans get tired of seeing their heroes made to be fools, thus they stop watching.
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Post by skyday1402 on Sept 26, 2005 23:30:04 GMT -5
If Vince, the guys who has given his everything to this sport, thinks that Triple H is worthy of running HIS company when he retires, that's more than enough for me.
I can't really argue you guy's OPINIONS. Cause that is exactly what we have, opinions. I happen to agree that RVD, Booker, and Kane wouldn't be credible main eventers and am glad that Triple H didn't put them over, you guys feel otherwise. He put over Benoit and Batista, both who I feel deserved it. I don't think he uses his family orientation to keep a stranglehold on his spot, you guys do. I do think that he is the most credible main eventer we have seen this side of Austin, you guys don't. There isn't really anything else I can say. One thing that can't be disputed is the fact that he busts his ass and deserves his spot. No matter what you say, you wont convince me otherwise.
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Parrish
El Dandy
Banana Man Wouldn't Book That!!!
Posts: 8,729
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Post by Parrish on Sept 26, 2005 23:38:02 GMT -5
ehhhh HHH has been stale since his feud with Foley ended. I am not a HHH hater or a fan of his for that matter, but the basic truth is HHH remains in the main event storyline simply because of who he is married to.
Noone can possibly sit there and say with a straight face that HHH would have recieved so many World Title reigns if he was still banging his ex boyfriend Chyna. Its all about who ya know..not what ya know, it will always be that way people just have to deal with it.
I mean it could be worse, the guy actually works great matches and can get good matches out of people, so you cant complain about that.
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Phoenix
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
He's back and better than ever!
Fear The Desecrator
Posts: 18,958
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Post by Phoenix on Sept 26, 2005 23:39:36 GMT -5
"ex boyfriend Chyna"
LMAO
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Post by skyday1402 on Sept 26, 2005 23:43:41 GMT -5
I am not a HHH hater or a fan of his for that matter, but the basic truth is HHH remains in the main event storyline simply because of who he is married to. That gets a big WTFEVER!
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,529
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Sept 26, 2005 23:50:28 GMT -5
Here's something nobody has mentioned yet.
Anyone remember the HHH-Steph-Angle storyline that went on during the summer of 2000? That feud was awesome and could have been even better. Angle played his role to PERFECTION.He was such an asshole. Fans were dying to see the payoffwhich should have gone: Steph turns on HHH, thus turning Hunter face. Hunter then feuds with Angle/Steph, finally winning the payoff match.
Of course, that didnt happen. He and Angle did wrestle, Steph costs Angle the match, Hunter stays a heel and the love triangle angle is laid to waste.
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Parrish
El Dandy
Banana Man Wouldn't Book That!!!
Posts: 8,729
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Post by Parrish on Sept 26, 2005 23:53:14 GMT -5
lol
You just wait till Ronnie Garvin married Steph and he is at the top, then you'll be singing a different tune!
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Millie D
El Dandy
Something VERY special.
I Love Glee!
Posts: 8,923
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Post by Millie D on Sept 26, 2005 23:55:50 GMT -5
ok...when i was watching that piece I did not get the impression that we had to like HHH..i got the impression that they are building up his comeback to jump up ratings for Raw....I really don't care if he did or did not come back but as long as he does not come back to overshadow others wrestler's or steal their spotlights or be champ for like a year ... i am cool with that
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Parrish
El Dandy
Banana Man Wouldn't Book That!!!
Posts: 8,729
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Post by Parrish on Sept 26, 2005 23:59:36 GMT -5
a feud with Cena could help solidify Cena's title reign thats for sure
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Post by kitsunestar on Sept 27, 2005 0:19:01 GMT -5
I'll like HHH when he grows the balls to admit on National TV that he only has his spot of total domination because he's married to Steph, and furthermore, that he only married her in order to get control of WWE when Vince retires/dies.
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Post by skyday1402 on Sept 27, 2005 1:09:23 GMT -5
I'll like HHH when he grows the balls to admit on National TV that he only has his spot of total domination because he's married to Steph, and furthermore, that he only married her in order to get control of WWE when Vince retires/dies. That is one of the most ignorant things I have ever read. Just saying.
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Sinestro
Samurai Cop
I wonder how many words I can fit in this spot. Probably not many, but maybe a few. Yeah that many
Posts: 2,275
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Post by Sinestro on Sept 27, 2005 1:11:14 GMT -5
I'll like HHH when he grows the balls to admit on National TV that he only has his spot of total domination because he's married to Steph, and furthermore, that he only married her in order to get control of WWE when Vince retires/dies. That is one of the most ignorant things I have ever read. Just saying. I concur. And I don't really like H-cubed.
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Scott
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,577
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Post by Scott on Sept 27, 2005 2:22:00 GMT -5
The clips they showed reminded me how much I like the guy no matter how much I hate when he talks every week. I love the guy in the ring where he should be every week instead of doing the mind games building up to the PPV
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Post by MichaelMartini on Sept 27, 2005 2:26:36 GMT -5
From his promos that take sooo long to say sooo little, to his soft bumping (the padded fall vs Taker at mania, the fake barbwire vs Foley, the fake bloodpacs), to his de-pushing stars like Booker, Y2J and RVD, to his 4-move set offense, he is a boring maineventer. The WWE is in a stand still with him as a top dog. He road Micheals coat tails to success, Austin, Rock and Foley made him a star, Steph and Vince kept him there. That's why he is unable to make stars himself. He was never a legit one to begin with.
HHH should've never left the midcard.
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Post by The Jeebus on Sept 27, 2005 2:39:40 GMT -5
Wow, it just took two small paragraphs to break down my reinforcement of faith in wrestling fans as a whole.
I could be watching a ten minute Tyson Tomko match.
What did you want him to do - fall to the concrete? I suppose anyone who doesn't bump like Foley is a "soft-bumper", and anyone who can't take barbed wire to the face is a bad wrestler. Oh, and he does blade, and he doesn't use blood packs. And for that matter, he doesn't use "fake" blood packs, either. What is a fake blood pack, anyway? A substitute for a blood pack that doesn't release any blood?
You can blame WWE for that, not HHH.
Indian Deathlock Pedigree Spinebuster Figure Four Knee-To-Face Thing Basic WWE Main Eventer moves DDT
Yeah. Four.
Of course he shouldn't have! It should've been Big Show feuding with The Rock in 2000, not Triple H! It sickens me that WWE settled for all of those high PPV buyrates. Disgusting.
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Post by The Deadly Snake on Sept 27, 2005 2:57:56 GMT -5
It's been a LONG time since he has done a Indian Deatlhock, a Figure Four, and a spinebuster. He has more than 4 moves, but the only uses a limited set of moves, which may be more than 4, but is still lmiited.
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