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Post by casualobserver on Oct 15, 2009 0:35:41 GMT -5
Here's the game. Make a statement about the WWE product or wrestlers. The next poster must provide a rebuttal to your statement to prove you wrong, then leave a statement of their own to be proven wrong. The rebuttal doesn't have to be airtight or a debate winner, but it has to be reasonably substantial.
For example, if somebody says "John Cena sucks":
Good reply: "He has had good main-event caliber matches and is over with the fans." Bad reply: "No, he doesn't."
The last statement that left without a rebuttal will be considered not proven wrong and is the undisputed truth.
I'll start...
Jack Swagger is overrated and his promos are crap.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 0:42:04 GMT -5
Jack Swagger has only been around for around two years at this point, and has never had any real success above the midcard. It's hard to argue the fact that he's been a solid midcarder by today's standards, he can wrestle well, and is able to get heat from the fans. For where he is on the card right now, he is anything but underrated.
His promos, while not the greatest the industry has ever seen, are certainly not terrible. He has a certain, for lack of a better word, swagger about him, and oozes natural confidence. I think he comes across as fake, but that's part of his gimmick of being to good for the common man, I think. Again, he's only been around for 2 years, so he's got room to improve.
Shawn Michaels, on the other hand, is extremely overrated, and is an above-average wrestler at best with one of the most convoluted gimmicks of all time.
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H-Fist
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,485
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Post by H-Fist on Oct 15, 2009 1:10:27 GMT -5
While Shawn's current reputation as deserving a place on Mt. Rushmore may be a bit overblown, the HBK has been involved in myriad memorable angles and storylines as both a heel and a face. His ability to garner sympathy as a face in peril in a tag team match is unmatched, and he has consistently delivered far better high-quality main event-caliber matches (especially those of extended duration) past forty than did many Hall of Famers once they entered their fifth decade. His gimmick's growth from Rocker to male stripper to anti-establishment faction leader, with the retirement/life change/return, and then the comedic interpretation of his past suggests a willingness to be humble and acknowledge those aspects of his past he is not proud of. They certainly make sense in terms of his development, especially in light of the "go through hell to get to heaven" angle with Taker earlier this year.
Here's mine:
WWE's use of gimmick matches as the only selling point of their PPVs (to wit, HiaC's 3 cell matches were ALL rematches from the previous PPV) poses a greater threat to the long-term health of wrestling than did Crash TV, except in the case of Crash TV, someone was there to pick up the pieces.
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Post by VengeanceGOD on Oct 15, 2009 1:19:44 GMT -5
Gimmick matches have been used to sell pay per views for years, it's just that recently that they've become the name of the pay per view. They've also nearly exclusively always been used as rematches. I'd actually argue that a gimmick match should never be part of a match that is NOT a rematch, especially a "brutal" match like Hell in a Cell. They are designed to be the answer to a feud that is so personal it can't be finished in a standard match.
Randy Orton is not only out of shape and boring, but has been the main problem on RAW for the past year.
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Dolph Zalgo
Don Corleone
He who waits behind the walls
҉҉ ̵̡̢̢̛̛̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞&
Posts: 1,939
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Post by Dolph Zalgo on Oct 15, 2009 2:03:20 GMT -5
Where in hell is Randy Orton out of shape? He is in better shape than most main eventers and upper carders in WWE (like Undertaker, HHH, HBK, Rey Misterio, CM Punk, Chris Jericho). He is a great natural heel, whose whole apperance just scream "douchebag". Like many other great gimmicks (Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, CM Punk) he kicked up his real life persona a notch and it fits perfectly. The constant nagging about his moves is something I cannot understand either: he works the head and the neck most of the match and both his finishers are knockout moves affecting the head and neck. Cena is much more RAW's main problem, which can be seen and heard from how the fans react to him at LIVE events.
new thesis: CM Punk is wrong, when he says he is drug free. He lives a healthy life, but he like almost any other person in a western state uses some drug. Caffeine is a bitter, white crystalline xanthine alkaloid that is a psychoactive stimulant drug. I can confirm that it works as such since I use it for performance enhancement in certain situations. Caffeine IS tested for at the Olympics' drug tests.
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Post by YellowJacketY2J on Oct 15, 2009 3:30:19 GMT -5
CM Punk doesn't lie. He's stated that he takes legal drugs, and the right amount. His problem with the world is that people abuse drugs.
New Thesis The Raw guest hosts aren't that bad of an idea. It gets the WWE mainstream attention, while letting celebs shill their merchandise and partake in skits. It's like SNL for wrestling.
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Post by Sero on Oct 15, 2009 4:01:33 GMT -5
Chris Benoit is dead.
Prove Me Wrong.
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b1gjames
AC Slater
hated by many. liked by few. respected by none
Posts: 120
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Post by b1gjames on Oct 15, 2009 8:31:43 GMT -5
CM Punk doesn't lie. He's stated that he takes legal drugs, and the right amount. His problem with the world is that people abuse drugs. New ThesisThe Raw guest hosts aren't that bad of an idea. It gets the WWE mainstream attention, while letting celebs shill their merchandise and partake in skits. It's like SNL for wrestling. But the problem is when you have guests hosts actually getting in the ring and competing in matches that run far too long and actually getting wins over talent. with that happening you run the risk of new fans taking the maineventers serious in their upcoming title matches at ppv. My thesis: The New Age Outlaws were the best thing to ever happen to dx.
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Jobes
Unicron
Posts: 3,199
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Post by Jobes on Oct 15, 2009 8:33:46 GMT -5
Chris Benoit is dead. Prove Me Wrong. Beaten to the punch. I seriously thought this thread was about Benoit's old catchphrase.
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Post by ginohernandez on Oct 15, 2009 8:53:41 GMT -5
PG era writing/workrate/angles SUCK.
Prove me wrong
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Oct 15, 2009 10:44:21 GMT -5
Chris Benoit Hardcore Holly is dead. Prove Me Wrong. Fixed
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Post by GaTechGrad on Oct 15, 2009 11:04:11 GMT -5
CM Punk doesn't lie. He's stated that he takes legal drugs, and the right amount. His problem with the world is that people abuse drugs. New ThesisThe Raw guest hosts aren't that bad of an idea. It gets the WWE mainstream attention, while letting celebs shill their merchandise and partake in skits. It's like SNL for wrestling. Guest hosts are a cheap ploy to keep ratings up. They take up valuable time that could be used to build new stars. This approach has proven to fail, as it did in WCW with David Arquette, KISS, Master P, etc. Guest hosts will end up hurting WWE in the long run. New ThesisAbraham Washington currently has the best mic skills in WWE.
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Post by johnnyk9 on Oct 15, 2009 11:11:41 GMT -5
True, but he will never be as good as Brother Love, he doesn't really give off whether he is a heel or a face
HHH is the stalest act in WWE, if he didn't marry Stephine, I feel he should've been released by now, whether he is a heel or a face, he does not longer come off as intiminating, but annoying
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lunataxc
Mephisto
Hot and Cold
Posts: 714
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Post by lunataxc on Oct 15, 2009 13:36:02 GMT -5
"Damn it Edna we all no these children have no future." WWE Talent-GSSSSPPP "hahaha Prove me wrong Kids, Prove me wrong"
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Red Lion
Dennis Stamp
Put your mask on!
Posts: 4,002
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Post by Red Lion on Oct 15, 2009 13:48:44 GMT -5
Chris Benoit is dead. Prove Me Wrong. Winner winner chicken dinner.
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Hogasm
Trap-Jaw
Gots that Thrillbilly Style
Posts: 392
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Post by Hogasm on Oct 15, 2009 13:51:27 GMT -5
Prove me wrong.
Prove Me wrong.
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Soultastic
El Dandy
Only an idiot can be completely happy.
Posts: 7,800
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Post by Soultastic on Oct 15, 2009 14:00:05 GMT -5
True, but he will never be as good as Brother Love, he doesn't really give off whether he is a heel or a face HHH is the stalest act in WWE, if he didn't marry Stephine, I feel he should've been released by now, whether he is a heel or a face, he does not longer come off as intiminating, but annoying While I agree that the marriage with Steph helped his carreer, you have to remember that they didn't actually get married until 2003, around the same time he started getting stale, meaning he would still have lots of acomplishments. Had he not married Steph, he wouldn't have been so overexposed and he probably would've agreed to get a new direction for his character, probably saving his carreer. JBL would have never won a World Championship if he had stayed as Bradshaw.
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Post by playoldgames on Oct 15, 2009 16:12:11 GMT -5
JBL would have never won a World Championship if he had stayed as Bradshaw. If he'd kept the name but changed to the JBL gimmick, I believe he would have. The gimmick, not the name change, made him. Santino should be allowed to wrestle properly more often
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