TNA Negotiating a deal with Female Wrestler?

[Starlight Starbright]

May 24, 2009 22:16:15 GMT -5 nt86 said:

At least they're letting her use her real name, and aren't coming up with something ridiculous like Madison Rayne (psuedo pornstar name) or Sojournor Bolt (so random).

Oh yeah, that name isn't random. It's a hilarious hodgepodge of "black" names by using a combination of black women's names. Sojourner Truth + FloJo reference. Makes sense.

[MiLB Fan]

May 24, 2009 23:21:35 GMT -5 domrep said:

How is Victoria trademarked by WWE? It's a name.

True, but it's part of a character created by a company (WWE) for a specific purpose (professional wrestling). And WWE does have a trademark on the name, as you can see here:

Word Mark VICTORIA
Goods and Services IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely wrestling exhibitions and performances by a professional wrestler and entertainer; providing wrestling news and information via a global computer network. FIRST USE: 20020707. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20020707
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78391347
Filing Date March 26, 2004
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition January 4, 2005
Registration Number 3024639
Registration Date December 6, 2005
Owner (REGISTRANT) World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE 1241 East Main Street Stamford CONNECTICUT 06902
Attorney of Record Lauren A. Dienes-Middlen
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

[The King of Memphis Tennessee]

May 24, 2009 19:41:20 GMT -5 EJS said:

May 24, 2009 19:03:11 GMT -5 Rorschach said:

So they'd have to call her Lisa Marie, right? The name "Victoria" is owned by Titan, last I heard.

Heh...maybe if they use her right, she can be the competition Kong has been lacking.

Considering it's a common first name they'd maybe be able to get away with just adding a last name. Victoria Varon, perhaps?

In the indies (or at least in Memphis Championship Wrestling, before she got called up) she went by the name Queen Victoria. I'd like seeing that again.

[Deleted]

May 25, 2009 1:21:45 GMT -5 Starlight Starbright said:

May 23, 2009 16:11:47 GMT -5 @tagteamspecialist said:

THIS

If it is Victoria I've lost a whole lot of respect for her

For wanting to actually have decent matches?
I understand what you guys are saying about mock retirements but it's not like she the first person to do it. Everyone who comes back has a good reason to. I wouldn't blame her if she tired of wrestling sub par women.
Edit: Guess it is her. I haven't lost one ounce of respect. She was probably getting lowballed in favor of the models. Gotta look out for number 1.

Many people doing it does not make it right

[Starlight Starbright]

But still, as someone else posted, she had many reasons for leaving. And I don't really think of her "retirement" as a "retirement" she probably just "retired" from the E and that whole system. Wrestling is still probably in her system and she's too good to go out like that.

This is a business with no pension, no retirement and a fine paid to the body, yet people love it enough to continue. And fans saying "I've lost a lot of respect for this person" is not really being realistic or considering all the points.

[Mecca]

May 26, 2009 15:53:06 GMT -5 Starlight Starbright said:

But still, as someone else posted, she had many reasons for leaving. And I don't really think of her "retirement" as a "retirement" she probably just "retired" from the E and that whole system. Wrestling is still probably in her system and she's too good to go out like that.

This is a business with no pension, no retirement and a fine paid to the body, yet people love it enough to continue. And fans saying "I've lost a lot of respect for this person" is not really being realistic or considering all the points.

If she really took a contract that is likely a 1/4th of what her WWE one was just to be booked better, that is the true definition of forgetting that wrestling is a business and being a huge mark for yourself.

[Starlight Starbright]

May 26, 2009 18:03:01 GMT -5 Mecca said:

May 26, 2009 15:53:06 GMT -5 Starlight Starbright said:

But still, as someone else posted, she had many reasons for leaving. And I don't really think of her "retirement" as a "retirement" she probably just "retired" from the E and that whole system. Wrestling is still probably in her system and she's too good to go out like that.

This is a business with no pension, no retirement and a fine paid to the body, yet people love it enough to continue. And fans saying "I've lost a lot of respect for this person" is not really being realistic or considering all the points.

If she really took a contract that is likely a 1/4th of what her WWE one was just to be booked better, that is the true definition of forgetting that wrestling is a business and being a huge mark for yourself.

I don't think it's that, honestly. Just another point to be considered- wrestlers like the be satisfied with their work/craft- it's hard to be personally satisfied in Diva land as a professional performer. I don't think that's "being a mark for yourself". That term is also a bastardization of the minsdset of a wrestler. Wrestlers get into this tough, awful, stressful, physically destructive business for themselves (because they love wrestling) and they are their number 1 asset. So anytime a fan says something about a wrestling being a mark for themselves I think they'd better be- wrestlers can have pride too.

BUT

I think she still has the wrestling bug- she seems to love wrestling. If she was a mark for herself she wouldn't have stuck around WWE as long as she did.

She's also doing MMA right now.

[Mecca]

Well like I said I would hope it's something more than "I didn't like how I was booked"

If you told me I could have 400 grand to job every night or make 100 to win all the time...I'll take scenario 1.

[Starlight Starbright]

I never said anything about booking, I said better matches with actual wrestlers. Loosing is not what I was talking about because that means nothing in wrestling.

I was talking about working with trained, experiences wrestling instead of green models, some of whom accidentally hurt others because they are so green and really shouldn't be trying to wrestle.
Not to mention, so few of them can actually do the number 1 goal in wrestling: tell a story.

Victoria's proved she can have a high caliber match and I can't wait to see her do it.

It's like having to put over yardtards when you're a professionally trained wrestler.

[nt86]

I dread to see what kind of titantron they give her. Those Microsoft PowerPoint ones they throw together are just wack.

[Bobby Womack]

starlight, you seem to have a very distorted view of the wrestling world as some utopian society where everybody lives on ideals and all have the exact same feelings and motivations as you do, not every wrestler is in it for a love of the business, many of them do it for much more superficial reasons, and not every female wrestlers number one goal in life is to have matches that smarks define as good, some may be in it to even do such things that might seem trivial to you as supporting their family, or reaching the pinnacle of success in the wrestling business, which believe it or not is still wrestling in wwe, even if it is 'diva land', and i have to roll my eyes when you say things like 'its hard for them to be satisfied working in diva land as a professional performer', i wonder how many of them youve actually talked to and asked that question, instead of just assuming their values are exactly aligned with your own, allegedly doing what is probably a couple of weeks training somewhere nobodys ever heard of doesnt give you authority to speak on behalf of all womens wrestlers

but anyway the bottom line is, if victoria pulled some kurt angle style move here then she definitely comes down a couple of notches in my book and other peoples, if she did have some desire to have a top spot in the twilight of her career and wrestle more experienced people, thats ok, have the guts to leave based on that premise, but to go through the backdoor via a 'retirement' is just weak

[Celgress]

May 26, 2009 19:18:39 GMT -5 Starlight Starbright said:

It's like having to put over yardtards when you're a professionally trained wrestler.

Summed up perfectly.

[Celgress]

May 27, 2009 9:55:55 GMT -5 Bobby Womack said:

starlight, you seem to have a very distorted view of the wrestling world as some utopian society where everybody lives on ideals and all have the exact same feelings and motivations as you do, not every wrestler is in it for a love of the business, many of them do it for much more superficial reasons, and not every female wrestlers number one goal in life is to have matches that smarks define as good, some may be in it to even do such things that might seem trivial to you as supporting their family, or reaching the pinnacle of success in the wrestling business, which believe it or not is still wrestling in wwe, even if it is 'diva land', and i have to roll my eyes when you say things like 'its hard for them to be satisfied working in diva land as a professional performer', i wonder how many of them youve actually talked to and asked that question, instead of just assuming their values are exactly aligned with your own, allegedly doing what is probably a couple of weeks training somewhere nobodys ever heard of doesnt give you authority to speak on behalf of all womens wrestlers

I tend to disagree with most of what you have just said. I'll use the analogy of film directors (many well known and sucessful) who would rather preserve their own unique vision by producing their projects independently, than succombing to the control and influence of the Holywood cookie cutter machine. In essence not everyone is happy, or even willing, to sacrifice the quality of their craft for monetary considerations.

[Bobby Womack]

May 27, 2009 10:49:28 GMT -5 Celgress said:

May 27, 2009 9:55:55 GMT -5 Bobby Womack said:

starlight, you seem to have a very distorted view of the wrestling world as some utopian society where everybody lives on ideals and all have the exact same feelings and motivations as you do, not every wrestler is in it for a love of the business, many of them do it for much more superficial reasons, and not every female wrestlers number one goal in life is to have matches that smarks define as good, some may be in it to even do such things that might seem trivial to you as supporting their family, or reaching the pinnacle of success in the wrestling business, which believe it or not is still wrestling in wwe, even if it is 'diva land', and i have to roll my eyes when you say things like 'its hard for them to be satisfied working in diva land as a professional performer', i wonder how many of them youve actually talked to and asked that question, instead of just assuming their values are exactly aligned with your own, allegedly doing what is probably a couple of weeks training somewhere nobodys ever heard of doesnt give you authority to speak on behalf of all womens wrestlers

I tend to disagree with most of what you have just said. I'll use the analogy of film directors (many well known and sucessful) who would rather preserve their own unique vision by producing their projects independently, than succombing to the control and influence of the Holywood cookie cutter machine. In essence not everyone is happy, or even willing, to sacrifice the quality of their craft for monetary considerations.

i didnt say everyone would be happy to do so, in fact my point was that you cant tar everyone with the same brush, many people would be happy to go down that road, many wouldnt, in line with your movie example there are a lot of directors that stay independent and put out artistic pieces, but there are also a large number (some would say the majority) that are willing to hold back on showcasing all their talents and do whats necessary to be mainstream successful, as is the case in music, and as is the case in wrestling with famous examples like hogan

[Starlight Starbright]

May 27, 2009 9:55:55 GMT -5 Bobby Womack said:

starlight, you seem to have a very distorted view of the wrestling world as some utopian society where everybody lives on ideals and all have the exact same feelings and motivations as you do, not every wrestler is in it for a love of the business, many of them do it for much more superficial reasons, and not every female wrestlers number one goal in life is to have matches that smarks define as good, some may be in it to even do such things that might seem trivial to you as supporting their family, or reaching the pinnacle of success in the wrestling business, which believe it or not is still wrestling in wwe, even if it is 'diva land', and i have to roll my eyes when you say things like 'its hard for them to be satisfied working in diva land as a professional performer', i wonder how many of them youve actually talked to and asked that question, instead of just assuming their values are exactly aligned with your own, allegedly doing what is probably a couple of weeks training somewhere nobodys ever heard of doesnt give you authority to speak on behalf of all womens wrestlers

but anyway the bottom line is, if victoria pulled some kurt angle style move here then she definitely comes down a couple of notches in my book and other peoples, if she did have some desire to have a top spot in the twilight of her career and wrestle more experienced people, thats ok, have the guts to leave based on that premise, but to go through the backdoor via a 'retirement' is just weak

I like how fans who have never wrestled have a crystal clear view of what a wrestler should do. I also love it when they say, "so and so has lost a lot of respect from me" SO??! Wrestlers don't give a damn, they do what they gotta do to be happy.

You also need to invest in capitalization, your post looks like one big run on sentence. I roll MY eyes when I see that mess up on screen, how you gonna be taken seriously typing like a 12 year old.

This ain't about "matches that smarks would deem good" or whatever you said, trying to slight smarks this is about being satisfied with one's love for wrestling.

People who get into wrestling and don't love it or some part of it never last. That is a tested observation.

Victoria doesn't want to be a flavor of the month/year girl (who's going to remember all these models 10 years from now, they're no Trish because they didn't set out to be), that separates her and Trish (Hemme, too) from the new breed of models turned wrestlers.

I don't think Trish deserves a lot of the credit she gets but I will say that she's gone down in history because she wanted to be more than a piece of T&A standing on the apron.

This desire to be more is also what started this onslaught of talented women wrestlers into TNA (via the indys/shimmer locker room talent farming). If it wasn't for these women wanting to be more womens wrestling would still be the desolate wasteland it was in the days of Kat and Debra as champions.

If you get your ass kicked for a living, get your body broken down, get snorked up and messed up and you don't love the business you're a snorking fool to go through all that just for a snorking paycheck. I've chatted with actual (made it) wrestlers about this and they all say the same thing- if you went through all that and don't want to be the best, you're f***ing cracked in the head.

PS Even Hogan loves wrestling- he didn't get his leg broken on the first day of training and come back if he didn't.
Quality comes from quality.

Also- I'm not training "at some place nobody's ever heard of" I gave up on training under misogynists until I can get the money to go to a school that will allow my mind to make an impact.

Have a nice day. Fans like you never want to be wrestlers for a reason.

[comahan]

Im still waiting to find a Starlight post that I disagree with.

Maybe tomorrow!

[Starlight Starbright]

May 27, 2009 22:19:27 GMT -5 comahan said:

Im still waiting to find a Starlight post that I disagree with.

Maybe tomorrow!

It's nice to know someone, somewhere out there....how do I put this. .it's nice to know that not all fans on the internet at the kind of fan who settle for less? Idunno how to put it but it's an issue(S) close to my heart.


Not only in wrestling but in life, not trying is just what the proverbial "they" want, it keeps everybody down. In wrestling, it keeps women regulated to pee break matches instead of becoming a part of the show. When people settle for less, they don't win someone else does.

[Mecca]

Women are regulated to that because women's wrestling is extremely hard to sell in this country. Even if they are booked in the best light possible it just doesn't sell in North America.

It's a very small niche thing, it will have some fans but I don't believe it will ever be a big draw on the national level. Plus you run into all sorts of issues when the majority of wrestling fans are males and basically won't care about a wrestler they don't find attractive.

[Deleted]

So wait Now I'm not allowed to have an Opinion unless I'm a wrestler?

There have been quite a few wrestlers who just got into it because they loved wrestling but didn't want to be the next Hogan or Flair

She can do what she wants to be happy but I'm still gonna express my Opinion

[Celgress]

May 27, 2009 22:19:27 GMT -5 comahan said:

Im still waiting to find a Starlight post that I disagree with.

Maybe tomorrow!

Same here friend.