Starlight Starbright
Don Corleone
Suffers From Macho Madness.
?Literary, intelligent, yet capable of great savagery. A terrifying genius.?
Posts: 1,969
|
Post by Starlight Starbright on May 28, 2009 19:11:49 GMT -5
Women are regulated to that because women's wrestling is extremely hard to sell in this country. Even if they are booked in the best light possible it just doesn't sell in North America. It's a very small niche thing, it will have some fans but I don't believe it will ever be a big draw on the national level. Plus you run into all sorts of issues when the majority of wrestling fans are males and basically won't care about a wrestler they don't find attractive. I think we all know that. Women are 2nd best at almost everything and it's no different in wrestling- we're just the wrong gender to succeed. My entire point was that not letting that get to them or cause them to accept that and settle for less and really phone it in is what has made a lot of these major changes in women's wrestling happen. Amazing Kong is the woman mostly responsible for pushing TNA to sign more talented women wrestlers. Perfect example of never settling or giving up. Haze, Danger, Lacey, Del Rey etc., and Prazak never just sat back and accepted women's wrestling being dog shit/piss break parts of the show, made a whole show out of it and Shimmer's a big reason TNA has been able to sign these wrestlers. Shimmer helped them get out there and really changed things on a grass roots level. Thanks to Shimmer, all women shows with actual wrestling are springing up all over the place when there was nothing before. This is my entire point about Victoria. All the women who settle, give up and don't push are the ones who won't be remembered 10 years from now and if they are remembered it'll be for bodyparts and not a contribution to wrestling.
|
|
|
Post by Bobby Womack on May 29, 2009 4:37:08 GMT -5
starlight, you seem to have a very distorted view of the wrestling world as some utopian society where everybody lives on ideals and all have the exact same feelings and motivations as you do, not every wrestler is in it for a love of the business, many of them do it for much more superficial reasons, and not every female wrestlers number one goal in life is to have matches that smarks define as good, some may be in it to even do such things that might seem trivial to you as supporting their family, or reaching the pinnacle of success in the wrestling business, which believe it or not is still wrestling in wwe, even if it is 'diva land', and i have to roll my eyes when you say things like 'its hard for them to be satisfied working in diva land as a professional performer', i wonder how many of them youve actually talked to and asked that question, instead of just assuming their values are exactly aligned with your own, allegedly doing what is probably a couple of weeks training somewhere nobodys ever heard of doesnt give you authority to speak on behalf of all womens wrestlers but anyway the bottom line is, if victoria pulled some kurt angle style move here then she definitely comes down a couple of notches in my book and other peoples, if she did have some desire to have a top spot in the twilight of her career and wrestle more experienced people, thats ok, have the guts to leave based on that premise, but to go through the backdoor via a 'retirement' is just weak I like how fans who have never wrestled have a crystal clear view of what a wrestler should do. I also love it when they say, "so and so has lost a lot of respect from me" SO??! Wrestlers don't give a damn, they do what they gotta do to be happy. You also need to invest in capitalization, your post looks like one big run on sentence. I roll MY eyes when I see that mess up on screen, how you gonna be taken seriously typing like a 12 year old. This ain't about "matches that smarks would deem good" or whatever you said, trying to slight smarks this is about being satisfied with one's love for wrestling. People who get into wrestling and don't love it or some part of it never last. That is a tested observation. Victoria doesn't want to be a flavor of the month/year girl (who's going to remember all these models 10 years from now, they're no Trish because they didn't set out to be), that separates her and Trish (Hemme, too) from the new breed of models turned wrestlers. I don't think Trish deserves a lot of the credit she gets but I will say that she's gone down in history because she wanted to be more than a piece of T&A standing on the apron. This desire to be more is also what started this onslaught of talented women wrestlers into TNA (via the indys/shimmer locker room talent farming). If it wasn't for these women wanting to be more womens wrestling would still be the desolate wasteland it was in the days of Kat and Debra as champions. If you get your ass kicked for a living, get your body broken down, get snorked up and messed up and you don't love the business you're a snorking fool to go through all that just for a snorking paycheck. I've chatted with actual (made it) wrestlers about this and they all say the same thing- if you went through all that and don't want to be the best, you're snorking cracked in the head. PS Even Hogan loves wrestling- he didn't get his leg broken on the first day of training and come back if he didn't. Quality comes from quality. Also- I'm not training "at some place nobody's ever heard of" I gave up on training under misogynists until I can get the money to go to a school that will allow my mind to make an impact. Have a nice day. Fans like you never want to be wrestlers for a reason. attacking spelling and grammar is a poor (wo)mans way out of responding to a point, but perhaps i should type more clearly for you because you seem to just skim over my posts and assuming my point and arguing against things i never said, i know hogan loved the business, my point was that in america he didnt put on the clinics that he put on in japan because a) he didnt need to, and b) the fans probably wouldnt like it anyway, he had ability far greater than he showed but he did what was required to get over instead of 'satisfy himself as an artist' by the way its getting really old you referring to fans as a different entity as yourself when youre not even a wrestler either, its almost as old as crying misogyny and sexism in every post where a female wrestler is brought up let me sum up my original point for you briefly so its easier to understand, you dont know victoria or the other female wrestlers whom you speak of, so speaking on their behalf assuming that their values are the same as yours is ridiculous, not every wrestler loves the business to the extent that you do, and while you may say that them getting through training and various injuries is proof enough, im sure there are people who are in it for monetary gain and are willing to go through the trouble when they see how well someone like a warrior or goldberg or lesnar did for themselves having to go through a relatively short training process and career and fans like me never become wrestlers for the reason that we dont want to, youre right, id much rather earn a stable living than live out of a car and travel 10 hours for a 20 dollar payday with the fruitless and lame dream of being in the 2% of wrestlers to make it to the big time
|
|
Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,086
|
Post by Mecca on May 29, 2009 4:55:37 GMT -5
Women are regulated to that because women's wrestling is extremely hard to sell in this country. Even if they are booked in the best light possible it just doesn't sell in North America. It's a very small niche thing, it will have some fans but I don't believe it will ever be a big draw on the national level. Plus you run into all sorts of issues when the majority of wrestling fans are males and basically won't care about a wrestler they don't find attractive. I think we all know that. Women are 2nd best at almost everything and it's no different in wrestling- we're just the wrong gender to succeed. My entire point was that not letting that get to them or cause them to accept that and settle for less and really phone it in is what has made a lot of these major changes in women's wrestling happen. Amazing Kong is the woman mostly responsible for pushing TNA to sign more talented women wrestlers. Perfect example of never settling or giving up. Haze, Danger, Lacey, Del Rey etc., and Prazak never just sat back and accepted women's wrestling being dog excretory matter/piss break parts of the show, made a whole show out of it and Shimmer's a big reason TNA has been able to sign these wrestlers. Shimmer helped them get out there and really changed things on a grass roots level. Thanks to Shimmer, all women shows with actual wrestling are springing up all over the place when there was nothing before. This is my entire point about Victoria. All the women who settle, give up and don't push are the ones who won't be remembered 10 years from now and if they are remembered it'll be for bodyparts and not a contribution to wrestling. I don't have any issue with this post or your thoughts on it, I also think women can succeed in wrestling and be draws. There are some examples it just has a huge perception and a portion of the fan base to overcome to make it happen. I don't dislike women's wrestling or go take piss breaks during the matches but I figure I'm the minority with that. I'd rather watch a womens match than 2 big plodders but some enjoy that I guess. Maybe that whole perception will change 1 day but we're basically at the starting level for getting womens wrestling to be taken seriously and be looked at, as a draw. But basically I more agree with you than disagree, I was speaking more in a majority of the fan base thinks this, not what I personally think.
|
|
Kae
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,610
|
Post by Kae on May 29, 2009 13:57:04 GMT -5
I have seen interviews with Trish Stratus where she says that the current divas are dissatisfied with the lack of direction in their division. I'm not sure why she would invent that, so I tend to believe her.
I have also heard rumors that Victoria retired because they were going to fire a younger diva. She basically took the bullet for her. Besides, TNA's schedule is a lot easier to work, especially if she's wanting to pursue MMA as well. It's once or twice a month, as opposed to five days a week.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2009 14:01:21 GMT -5
If the bit about Victoria leaving so that the other Diva wouldn't be fired is true than I will retract my statement but if it isn't and the Retirement bit is true I stand by my what I said earlier
|
|
|
Post by marqui78 on May 29, 2009 14:23:53 GMT -5
If the bit about Victoria leaving so that the other Diva wouldn't be fired is true than I will retract my statement but if it isn't and the Retirement bit is true I stand by my what I said earlier Its true about her retiring to save the girl job. Victoria wanted WWE to hire Gail back as well. She wanted the divas to mean something in wrestling. Gail Kim hates it in WWE right now. People claim she regret leaving TNA now. Mickie James has basically been written out all together.
|
|
|
Post by Lance Uppercut on May 29, 2009 14:51:58 GMT -5
Mickie James has basically been written out all together. Say what?
|
|
|
Post by marqui78 on May 29, 2009 16:11:17 GMT -5
They've told her we no ideas for you. So now she just work random matches. Like this past Monday mixed tags and things like that. Beth will feud with Santino Marella. The diva title will stay with Taker's old lady.
|
|
|
Post by rawthentic on May 29, 2009 16:41:39 GMT -5
They've told her we no ideas for you. So now she just work random matches. Like this past Monday mixed tags and things like that. Beth will feud with Santino Marella. The diva title will stay with Taker's old lady. Maryse isnt the Butterfly champ anymore?
|
|
|
Post by Lance Uppercut on May 29, 2009 17:00:21 GMT -5
It's like having to put over yardtards when you're a professionally trained wrestler. Summed up perfectly. She wasn't any different. She was a model picked up with Trish Stratus who learned most of her work in OVW and the local indy by her area.
|
|
|
Post by Lance Uppercut on May 29, 2009 17:07:28 GMT -5
They've told her we no ideas for you. So now she just work random matches. Like this past Monday mixed tags and things like that. Beth will feud with Santino Marella. The diva title will stay with Taker's old lady. She's in a mini fued with Maryse. The thing with Kelly was a logical result of Maryse's interference in a No. 1 contender's match. I say mini because of course this'll probably morph into a Kelly fued, with Mickie in the periphery. Or Maryse will end up like HBK or Randy Orton with multiple fueds going on at the same time. After all Mickie's pinned her like 3 times, and they do have a fun battle of DDt's thing going on, I wish WWe would focus on. and like I said earlier, god forbid they don't push new talent with a new title or the new popular girl (kelly) who hasn't won the title 3 times already. If this board had its way, might as well just have Mickie plow over everyone over and over nonstop without every putting someone else over with the 10 minutes of tv time reserved for a female roster of like 10 women. Santino's fueding with the Guerrero's and what else is Beth Phoenix going to do? Eventually she's going to have turn face and kill maryse or wait until someone beats maryse and she can take the title off her. And McCool doesn't have the Women's title yet, let alone still having the Diva's belt. edit: I don't want to hijack this thread or take attention away from Victoria or TNA so is anyone wants to respond, reply here: officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=WWE&thread=206762
|
|