Kevin Nash-wrong champ at the wrong time??

[ultimatekennedy]

While he was WWF champ in the mid 90's, many people have commonly remarked that Kevin Nash's drawing power was terrible. You can attribute it to a couple of reasons possibly due to the weak position WWF was in at the time as well as being a big man at a time when the company was starting to push smaller guys like Shawn and Bret.

Do you think that Nash could have been a bigger draw as champion in the 80s with his size and charisma, or do you still think he would have been a weak ticket seller at the time too, a time when workrate and mat wrestling skills weren't quite as big a deal like they're talked about now?

I'm going to say that he certainly would have been a better champion in terms of drawing money and pushed right could have been a great PPV opponent for a guy like Hogan or Savage for someone to get the belt back from.

[BlackJackRobby]

I acctuly think he was a good champ for the time.

He may of had it a little early in terms of ability, but otherwise he was good for what he was.

The WWF was just so dang bad at that time in terms of writing, wrestling, and look.

It probably would not have mattered much who was the WWF champ in that period it would not have helped the ratings.

[buzzkill1]

Nash would have drawn huge in any decade. He has the look of a legit bad ass with the charisma to back it up. He should be considered one of the greatest guys on the stick of the 90s.

When he was champ in WWF it was just a slow time in the business, no one would was going to be selling any tickets with the crap gimmicks they got. He didn't get over huge until he got to WCW and was able to shape his own character and really spread his wings creatively.

[Joekishi]

I really liked Nash at the time, that's why all this hate surprised me because a lot of us who were in the arenas cheered for Big Daddy Cool.

Really though if he would have stayed in WWE and kept that egomaniac "WWF runs on diesel power" character. I think he would be more fondly remembered.

Think about it, 1996 was the beginning of cursing, flipping the bird, and generally "reallity" based stories.

Diesel was awesome in his role as a heel in 1996

[Hanzo]

Jan 9, 2009 23:46:42 GMT -5 Joekishi said:

Diesel was awesome in his role as a heel in 1996

I agree. I loved the 'if you're not wearing a black glove, you get no props from me' Diesel.

[Milkman Norm]

A few things here:

1. I believe that Nash would have been a bigger draw in the 80's if only because he would have been built up as a legitamite championship threat. His reign in 1995 came about because Vince panicked on Backlund as a transtional champion but wasn't ready to push a samller guy like Shawn Michaels let. Fans saw HBK as the leader and Diesel as his lackey so his title reign was muddle from the begining.

2. The ability to sell tickets in the 80's had more to do with wrestlings return to prominence in popular culture than anyone person. Hogan was the focal point but the fact that he was on NBC and MTV helped WWF move a crapload of tickets. By the mid 90's wrestling was old hat and while the 80's schtik was warn the 90's attitude was still a few years away. So while Nash didn't help draw ratings I don't think Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart did that much better from 1992-1996.

[bretclark]

Diesel was never "World" Championship material. He was decent, but that's about it. The only excuse as mentioned before was the time he became World Champ.

- bretclark

[Dave at the Movies]

I really liked him as Diesel in the mid 90s. A lot of people joke about how he wasn't a big drawing power and sucked but he was actually very over and very popular at the time.

As for the 80s question I think he would have made an excellent heel in the WWF. He would have been perfect for Hogan to wrestle at the time. Then again though Nash was taller than Andre The Giant so he might have not gotten a job that easily.

[Milkman Norm]

Well the not drawing thing is more of fact than a joke. He was the worst drawing WWF champion of all time. Not that all was his fault, in fact much of it wasn't

[HMARK Center]

I do think people need to be fair to Bret, Nash, and HBK and their drawing power in that era.

The fact was, as was said before, WWF was God-awful in the mid-90's, outside of a few bright spots. I can't really imagine that any one man could've drawn in that environment, given how poorly it was booked and how lackluster so many of the new characters/gimmicks were.

Sometimes one person ends up carrying a promotion (in WWF's case, Hogan in the mid-80's, Austin in the late 90's), but they only get that chance because the company undergoes a shift in booking philosophy first. Had WWF never embraced the new "Attitude" stuff, Austin would never have reached the heights he did, because he needed the proper booking environment to thrive in, for example.

The mid-90's were not a good booking environment by any definition whatsoever.

[Single H]

Like posters have said the fact on paper he is the worst drawing champ of all time wasn't Nash fault. The Diesel character was over with the fans. Athough he payed the rol,e better as a heel heel. He was a big fan favorite as a face. The fact is wrestling was on a major down ward trend in the mid to late 90's. It picked up from mid 96 slowly but surely. Hart or Michaels were not as big a draw as made out either. It was simpl,y wrestling was stale by this point noting to do with the performers rather the product a a hole.
Wrestling just wasn't saw as 'cool anymore' by the mainstream and only the loyal followers kept wrestling a float in the early to mid even into late 90's. Until it picked up again.

I think Diesel would have been great in the WWF 80's as a heel to feud against Hogan.

[Dr. Marzvon Zombie M.D.]

I think he was a great champ, but prefered him as a heel and once he went to WCW, he proved that he was a top dog, in what many would say is the biggest angle in wrestling history.

[randomranter]

I have to agree with nearly everybody else in this thread: Blame the bad draw on the general state of the WWF at the time. I don't think there was anybody on the card who could have drawn decent numbers.

Diesel was very over at the time, and his matches were at least passable. Some were actually pretty decent. All things considered, I actually think he was booked properly.

[ultimatekennedy]

I was just thinking about this the other day and remembered I posted this. I think if Diesel was a star in the 80's during the Hogan era, he would have been super big.

[corndog]

I think Nash was better as a heel, and probably would have worked for him better off as a heel champ since he would have better opponents such as Undertaker, Bret and Micheals once he turned face. Obviously though it was not all his fault, the WWF was really just at a bad point and he really wasn't booked that well, also WCW drew with Nash as champ, but there was alot of major players around him.

[rnrk supports BLM]

Sept 8, 2009 1:30:57 GMT -5 ultimatekennedy said:

I was just thinking about this the other day and remembered I posted this. I think if Diesel was a star in the 80's during the Hogan era, he would have been super big.

Undoubtedly. He was certainly one of WCW's biggest draws during the Monday Night Wars.

As I saw it, the big problem with Diesel's title reign (and with the New Generation in general) was WWF's complete failure to build up any remotely credible heels to challenge him. It's the same problem with giving the Undertaker an extended championship run (and, for that matter, a large part of why Warrior never reached Hogan's level); when you've got a babyface who comes across as that unstoppable, it's going to take very good booking to get the fans to think he's in danger of losing his title to the heel, and good booking was not something WWF '95 had in spades.

[stevieraymark]

Jan 10, 2009 2:05:49 GMT -5 Milkman Norm said:

Well the not drawing thing is more of fact than a joke. He was the worst drawing WWF champion of all time. Not that all was his fault, in fact much of it wasn't

Actually its more myth than fact. Diesel as champion drew more money than Eddie Guererro, Undertaker (97) Shawn Michaels,Psycho Sid,Bret Hart. But i suppose its been said enough times by the iwc that its suddenly become fact.

[Youngie]

So did Diesel actually draw as champ?

If he was champ in the Attitude Era (if he had returned from WCW) I can see him having been a big draw.

[Bob Schlapowitz]

Was it really necessary to bump an 8 month old thread?

[whatamaneuver]

All I know is I was 10/11 at the time of his reign and I absolutely loved Diesel. So he was good for the target audience - the problem was that target audience didn't have any disposable income and so his reign wasn't financially productive.