Kill Bill Appreciation

[The Line]

Before people come in here and say "He just ripped off a bunch of movies!!", try and read my post. Probably won't change a single mind, but whatever. Just gets kinda annoying to have every KB conversation derailed by those comments.


Anyway, I watched vol. 2 last night on IFC, and that got me thinking how much I really like the series, even though its easily bastard child of QT's movies.

Now, I know what many are thinking; that KB 'rips off' many films. And I have two things to say about that;
1) Martial Arts/Kung-Fu films were hardly original themselves. They often borrowed from Western* movies and literature. The directors of those films knew it, the fans knew it, and QT knew it. QT also is extremely open about what he borrowed.
2)As someone who has studied Asian film at a university level(multiple classes), I can see that QT has an extremely thorough understanding of Asian cinema. His use of lighting, use of music, use of silence, sound effects, camera angles, etc. are all extremely influenced(notice 'influence', 'not ripped off'). QT didn't simply rent a few kung-fu movies and steal scenes. He just simply understands movies. I compare Kill Bill to Jackie Brown, in that not only is it an homage to many movies of the genre, but it also extremely authentic.

Another problem I see a lot of people having with the two movies is the fact that it was released in two volumes, but it really is one movie. Many movie-goers I think were expecting Vol. II to be more of a sequel, not a continuation. Also, their is a massive tonal shift between 1 and 2, where 1 is almost straight up action, and 2 is more of a character piece. I know a lot of people ended up hating vol. 2 for that reason, but honestly, I think that's why I like vol. 2 so much. Its almost like a new director took over. Its great. It fleshes out the characters, and all of a sudden, all the killing in vol. 1 seems somewhat more justified.

But, besides that, its just such an aesthetically pleasing film. QT's 3 most well known films of the time (Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, and Jackie Brown) were all very gritty(intentionally). The emphasis on aesthetics is something that not only sets it apart from his previous work, but also is something influenced heavily by Asian directors such as Ozu.


So, what are you're thoughts on this film/these films(depends on if you consider them as two individual movies, or 1 long movie)? I know my opinions are probably only shared by a few(and I don't know if those few are posters here), but I'd love to know what you all think. It can be anything from something like I posted, or just simply "the crazy 88 fight scene rocked". However, note that if you come in here just to say "its a rip-off!", prepare for a debate .


*When I say 'western', I am not talking about spaghetti westerns or that such, but 'western' as in The Western World(ie: The US, Canada, Western Europe, Australia, etc).

[Sir Woodrow]

I loved this both volumes so much that I spent a good amount of money that I didn't really have to buy a Bride Action figure.

[Mayonnaise]

Love these movies. I keep wishing, QT would release the uncut combined version that was rumored.

[The Line]

Dec 20, 2009 16:51:09 GMT -5 Mayonnaise said:

Love these movies. I keep wishing, QT would release the uncut combined version that was rumored.

Hells yeah! I usually am in no rush to buy a dvd/blu ray the first day it comes out(I used to be that way whenever a simpsons season 3-9 came out) but I would have that pre-ordered in a heartbeat.

[slasher911]

Ehhhh, this started my trend of disliking Tarantino. I didn't hate the movies at all, but they're so overblown. At this point, Tarantino could take a steaming s*** on camera and it'd still be hailed as "clever" and "genius".

That said, I'd be all over an uncut combined version. That I'd check out.

[Deleted]

I love both of these movies so much and Uma Thurman and David Carradine performances were seriously underrated. In fact I'm going go to dare say this but Uma Thurman probably put up one of the best screen performances of all time imo.

[The Line]

Dec 20, 2009 17:21:53 GMT -5 @supersweetbotch said:

I love both of these movies so much and Uma Thurman and David Carradine performances were seriously underrated. In fact I'm going go to dare say this but Uma Thurman probably put up one of the best screen performances of all time imo.

Gonna spoiler tag this one, just to be safe.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}
The whole scene from where Kiddo confronts Bill/meets BB all the way up until Bill's death is probably one of my favorite scenes in all of cinema. Carradine gave arguably the best performance of his life, and Uma held her own despite that. There were multiple instances in that scene where you could easily forget that both are crazy assassins. Plus, we also got to finally hear both Bill's and Kiddo's motivations for their actions, which raises kind of a moral dilemma for the viewer, as both were at least somewhat justified.

[The Ichi]

Am I alone in prefering Vol. 2 to Vol. 1? I've met very few people who agree with me. Still enjoy them both though.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2009 17:33:39 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Am I alone in prefering Vol. 2 to Vol. 1? I've met very few people who agree with me. Still enjoy them both though.

I agree with you. But I love the contradictions of the people who complain about Kill Bill movies. They say Vol 1. isn't serious enough and to cartoony then they say Vol 2. is way to serious and not cartoony enough.

[Young Game]

I mark out for Gogo!

[The Line]

Dec 20, 2009 17:33:39 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Am I alone in prefering Vol. 2 to Vol. 1? I've met very few people who agree with me. Still enjoy them both though.

I also enjoy 2 more than 1. 2 completes 1. Without 2, 1 would pretty much be a completely mindless action film(not that there is anything wrong with that). 2 shows us the characters' motivation, and makes all the characters actually...human.

Plus, we got great performances by quite a few actors(already mentioned Carradine and Thurman, but Michael Madsen and Daryl Hannah were great,too)

[Triple Kelly]

I reference and quote these movies nearly everyday. How I love them. I even have The Bride and Gogo action figures set up in my room poised for battle.

A lot of people don't like Volume 2 because it's too "talky". But that's why I love it! Volume 1 was all the (superb) action and Volume 2 is mostly exposition and dialogue (and done VERY well, not an easy feat).

And the soundtrack for both is fabuloso in so many ways.

[The Line]

yeah, not only did was the dialogue well done, but it also somehow stayed true to the movies Tarantino was homaging(don't think this is a word, but oh well)

[Kroot bringing Justice]

Prefer 2 to 1 but love them both. Only problem I had with it was how much of a letdown Bud's death was.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2009 18:36:41 GMT -5 Kroot bringing Justice said:

Prefer 2 to 1 but love them both. Only problem I had with it was how much of a letdown Bud's death was.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}It was actually great because it showed how powerful he was and his one weakness. He trusts people to much. Which was a contradiction of his greatest strength, his instinctive awareness. This is great subtle character writing imo.

Remember this is the guy who captured The Bride and could of easily killed her but he didn't because he wanted money. Plus The Bride never got her revenge on him so technically Bud is the only guy who beat The Bride.

[theryno665]

Yeah, I watched the end of Vol. 1 on IFC last night after having a Christmas gettogether at my parents' place. Just watching the end fight with the Crazy 88 brought back all the giddiness of when I was watching it in the theater (which in turn reminded me of the same giddiness I felt when I saw Inglourious Basterds). I didn't even watch Vol. 2 until a few months ago when I broke down and bought a DVD copy after waiting so long for the uncut set to come out and giving up. I still like Vol. 1 better but I liked Vol. 2 more than I thought I would as everyone told me it was more talking than fighting.

[PKO]

I absolutely love the movies now. I saw the first one years ago and liked it, watched the second one (but didn't pay much attention) which led to me disliking it. I recently watched them both one night after another and now love them. The first one is all about the action, but the second one is all about the story. I loved the fact that the first film makes sense by itself, but after watching the second one it makes sense on a different level.

I also liked that the characters shifted between being likeable and unlikeable so quickly and simply, leading you to ultimately make up your mind about them.

Also, great performances from all around. Daryl Hannah is a fox.

[The Line]

Dec 20, 2009 20:04:18 GMT -5 PKO said:

I absolutely love the movies now. I saw the first one years ago and liked it, watched the second one (but didn't pay much attention) which led to me disliking it. I recently watched them both one night after another and now love them. The first one is all about the action, but the second one is all about the story. I loved the fact that the first film makes sense by itself, but after watching the second one it makes sense on a different level.

I also liked that the characters shifted between being likeable and unlikeable so quickly and simply, leading you to ultimately make up your mind about them.

Also, great performances from all around. Daryl Hannah is a fox.

Dang, this post pretty much word for word describes my opinion.


I really liked how Budd and Bill's likability changed. Gonna spoiler tag this one again, just to be safe.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}I really, really liked Budd's character. But I'm sure a good portion of that is because Madsen is a great actor. The other part, though, was how human he was. Like, even though this is the appreciation thread, I'll take an example from it. In vol. 1, at least I didn't feel that O-Ren was a human, so to speak, but obviously Lucy Lu playing a character.

But, when watching Budd, you felt like you were watching a real guy on camera. Here you have a guy, a cold-blooded killer, but a guy you could feel real sympathy for. Here was a guy who felt like a schlub compared to his brother, even though his brother cared about him a lot(he gave him a Hanzo sword, and remember, when you compare a Hanzo sword, you have to compare it to every sword he made,and every one he didn't). He was poor and living in a trailer, just trying to assimilate himself with the real world(much like Kiddo tried to do prior to the massacre), and failing at it. And he seems to be....at peace with the world(saying the bride 'deserves her vengeance, and we deserve to die', but he also holds a grudge against the bride for breaking Bill's heart. But, you have to remember that he's still a cold-blooded killer, and still has those tendencies. For a while, it looked as though he, of all of the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad, would be the one to do in the bride. But in the end, its his trustful nature that eventually does him in.

Bill is another character that goes through a big change. I mean, throughout the first volume, and most of the 2nd, we only know Bill as the guy who organized the massacre, so he obviously seemed like a bad dude. But at the end, his actions seemed somewhat justified(The woman he loved was leaving him, but not only that, but taking their child as well, and as we saw by the scene with Esteban the pimp, Bill had/has some father issues, so he would want nothing more than to give his child a great childhood, which, from what we saw of him and BB together, seemed to be exactly what he was giving her). When Kiddo finally does Kill Bill, it doesn't really give the audience the overwhelming sense of joy. It was a mixed reaction. Obviously Kiddo deserved revenge, but usually in revenge movies, we never get to see the human element of the ones getting killed. Just really interesting.

The worst part about Vol. 2 was that David Carradine and Michael Madsen didn't get nominated for Best Actor and Best Supporting Actor, respectively.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2009 21:13:54 GMT -5 The Line said:

Dec 20, 2009 20:04:18 GMT -5 PKO said:

I absolutely love the movies now. I saw the first one years ago and liked it, watched the second one (but didn't pay much attention) which led to me disliking it. I recently watched them both one night after another and now love them. The first one is all about the action, but the second one is all about the story. I loved the fact that the first film makes sense by itself, but after watching the second one it makes sense on a different level.

I also liked that the characters shifted between being likeable and unlikeable so quickly and simply, leading you to ultimately make up your mind about them.

Also, great performances from all around. Daryl Hannah is a fox.

Dang, this post pretty much word for word describes my opinion.


I really liked how Budd and Bill's likability changed. Gonna spoiler tag this one again, just to be safe.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}I really, really liked Budd's character. But I'm sure a good portion of that is because Madsen is a great actor. The other part, though, was how human he was. Like, even though this is the appreciation thread, I'll take an example from it. In vol. 1, at least I didn't feel that O-Ren was a human, so to speak, but obviously Lucy Lu playing a character.

But, when watching Budd, you felt like you were watching a real guy on camera. Here you have a guy, a cold-blooded killer, but a guy you could feel real sympathy for. Here was a guy who felt like a schlub compared to his brother, even though his brother cared about him a lot(he gave him a Hanzo sword, and remember, when you compare a Hanzo sword, you have to compare it to every sword he made,and every one he didn't). He was poor and living in a trailer, just trying to assimilate himself with the real world(much like Kiddo tried to do prior to the massacre), and failing at it. And he seems to be....at peace with the world(saying the bride 'deserves her vengeance, and we deserve to die', but he also holds a grudge against the bride for breaking Bill's heart. But, you have to remember that he's still a cold-blooded killer, and still has those tendencies. For a while, it looked as though he, of all of the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad, would be the one to do in the bride. But in the end, its his trustful nature that eventually does him in.

Bill is another character that goes through a big change. I mean, throughout the first volume, and most of the 2nd, we only know Bill as the guy who organized the massacre, so he obviously seemed like a bad dude. But at the end, his actions seemed somewhat justified(The woman he loved was leaving him, but not only that, but taking their child as well, and as we saw by the scene with Esteban the pimp, Bill had/has some father issues, so he would want nothing more than to give his child a great childhood, which, from what we saw of him and BB together, seemed to be exactly what he was giving her). When Kiddo finally does Kill Bill, it doesn't really give the audience the overwhelming sense of joy. It was a mixed reaction. Obviously Kiddo deserved revenge, but usually in revenge movies, we never get to see the human element of the ones getting killed. Just really interesting.

The worst part about Vol. 2 was that David Carradine and Michael Madsen didn't get nominated for Best Actor and Best Supporting Actor, respectively.

No the worst part was Uma Thurman not getting nominated at all for any of the volumes especially for Volume 2. She was nominated for the Golden Globe for both of the movies and a BAFTA award for the first one but couldn't get a Oscar nomination? It's just predictable snobbish behavior from them.

Also David Carradine and Michael Madsen were incredible. Carradine did deserve an Oscar nomination just for the

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}final confrontation he had with Uma.

[Mozenrath]

Dec 20, 2009 17:41:47 GMT -5 Young Game said:

I mark out for Gogo!

She seriously stole the show. Wish they could of saved her death for 2, which lacked the fun fight scenes by comparison, but I guess I can see why you can't leave a psychopath like Gogo Yubari alive.