Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
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Post by Jazzman on May 3, 2010 10:54:11 GMT -5
So then Dom, what you are saying is that you are holding me responsible for the playing style of the man who had this role before me? I said at the start of taking over for Crud that you shouldn't hold me responsible for him, but yet that's all you have, and you even admit to bandwagoning? Fine Crud, ask me a question. I'm willing to answer anything you want to know, of course within the rules and fair play nature of this game. I addressed this here. I love how no matter how scummy someone might seem before being replaced, we are suppose to blindly forget everything done by him in the game when the replacement comes in. It is almost like getting to start all over. I've never gotten this mentality. When you step into a role as a replacement, you assume all responsibilities left in the previous guy's wake. To tell us to assume otherwise is an easy out. As for why I voted for Crud/Jazzman... Click here and HereButters even supported this idea here and brought up the suspicions to Jazzman here, and it got ignored. But... i'm not so prideful to keep my vote just to be keeping my vote... so Jazz... you provide me with a better option, and I'll change my vote. Until then... you're on top of my scum list. Well then, I'm sad to hear that I still stand at the top of your list. Honestly, I wish I could give you a suspect or two, but I will say this. In all likelihood, the mafia godfather is someone who is posting in this thread. I strongly doubt that person isn't at least paying some sort of attention to all of this. So I think those are the people we need to look at right now, unless these super-lurkers, who should be prodded by now I would assume, are really this stubborn to a strategy.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on May 3, 2010 11:19:23 GMT -5
So then Dom, what you are saying is that you are holding me responsible for the playing style of the man who had this role before me? I said at the start of taking over for Crud that you shouldn't hold me responsible for him, but yet that's all you have, and you even admit to bandwagoning? Fine Crud, ask me a question. I'm willing to answer anything you want to know, of course within the rules and fair play nature of this game. I truly have nothing to hide gentlemen, voting for me will only cause other members of the town to suffer. Sorry to say this, Jazz, but you should be held responsible for the actions of the player you replaced, as you're both the same character. It may be a raw deal for you, replacing a player who was pegged at being scummy, but that's the way it is. And something I've noticed is that people who fight the hardest with the "don't hold me responsible for the previous player's actions" argument tend to come across as the scummiest.
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Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
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Post by Jazzman on May 3, 2010 13:46:06 GMT -5
So then Dom, what you are saying is that you are holding me responsible for the playing style of the man who had this role before me? I said at the start of taking over for Crud that you shouldn't hold me responsible for him, but yet that's all you have, and you even admit to bandwagoning? Fine Crud, ask me a question. I'm willing to answer anything you want to know, of course within the rules and fair play nature of this game. I truly have nothing to hide gentlemen, voting for me will only cause other members of the town to suffer. Sorry to say this, Jazz, but you should be held responsible for the actions of the player you replaced, as you're both the same character. It may be a raw deal for you, replacing a player who was pegged at being scummy, but that's the way it is. And something I've noticed is that people who fight the hardest with the "don't hold me responsible for the previous player's actions" argument tend to come across as the scummiest. But you aren't looking at this rationally. Yes, we are the same character, but in no way are we are the same player. Those are two words you are interchanging which are two totally different ideas man. Crud and I aren't even close to having the same playing style, which is how I take it, so you are using crucifing me for his actions, which I wouldn't have done in his situation! So I guess what I'm saying is if there is anything short of a role claim that can appease you, or anyone else of questions of me, please ask it of me, I'm all for trying to help the town win this game and doing what I can to play a role in it.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,223
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on May 3, 2010 17:06:52 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, does anyone else have doubts about Square being the doctor?
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on May 3, 2010 18:28:10 GMT -5
I am looking at it rationally. It just doesn't matter if you would have done things differently. If crud's actions were suspicious to people, and they believe that he was Mafia, you taking on the role means nothing in that regard. Someone doesn't automatically become not-Mafia just because that role changed hands, don't you see? And, obviously, people think crud was Mafia... which means they think you, by extension, are Mafia.
Think about it like this, Jazz:
If someone was to be 1 vote away from a lynch, and they then role-claimed a very believable role, and yet I swooped in and dropped the hammer right afterwords to prevent that person from being saved, you'd be suspicious of me, right? I mean, voting to kill what looks to be a confirmed Townee is a pretty suspicious move. You'd have to be nuts not to look at that and go "Ah! Something to be suspicious of and remember!".
Yet, if I then immediately dropped out of the game and was replaced during the night phase, would you dismiss that suspicion simply because a new player took over this role? I think not. You'd still keep it filed away, as it was suspicious behavior. It wouldn't matter if my replacement stated "I wouldn't have done that!". It'd still be a stigma associated to the role I currently play, and thus worthy of notice when building a case.
In that same manner, if someone believed that crud was Mafia, they should not wipe things clean just because you've replaced him. Is it fair? Hell no. No one has even implied that it's really all that fair to you. But things aren't always fair in this game. This is just the kinda stuff you have to deal with when you volunteer to be a replacement, and arguing against it really doesn't help you.
Also, keep in mind that I am not trying to crucify you. I still haven't decided if I support the case against you or not (at least, not in the sense that I believe crud was suspicious). I just don't believe people are absolved of actions taken by the players they replace, as the character being played doesn't change at all.
And JM: Yeah, I have some doubts, but as always I'm very wary about lynching what could be a power role.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,223
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on May 3, 2010 18:39:49 GMT -5
Unofficial Vote Count
jazzman- 3 (Sweet N Sour, jagilki, The Dom) Square- 1 (Jonathan Michaels) D2- 1 (Square)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2010 20:38:51 GMT -5
Vote: Square
i'm sorry but it looks like there is a mafia doctor. you have only claimed the role but not the name which causes me to be very suspicious. also you said no matter what happens your going to just keep saving yourself which is very selfish and not beneficial to town whatsoever. also we have yet to hear of a town doctor at all... just doesn't add up imho.
i still feel that the people going after Jazz are scum as i don't see him as being scum at all
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on May 3, 2010 23:17:20 GMT -5
Do you have anything more against the case on Jazz than just you not feelin' it? For instance, any dispute with the point(s) SnS seemed to make?
Also, Square, this might be a good time for you to fess up if you fibbed about the Doctor thing.
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Post by Triple H buried SnS on May 4, 2010 8:50:50 GMT -5
Some notes ...
8 of 12 remaining people have been identified: Brother Midnight Big Daddy Cadillac El Dandy Snitsky Fake Razor Fake Diesel RD Sean Carless
List of people who survived WC Mafia 1: Brother Midnight - Appeared - Power Role again Big Daddy Cadillac - Appeared - Power Role again El Dandy - Appeared - Standard town again Snitzky - Appeared - Standard town again
Chris Masters in a Sombrero - Not appeared yet - was a standard town Gooker - Not appeared yet - was a standard town Batista - Not appeared yet - was a standard town
Bobby the brain - dead - Was power role again Tony Schiavone - dead - Was standard town again Rob Conway - dead - died in initial writeup
Some extra random notes:
Last time there was a town doctor, one has been claimed here but no proof in writeups. Last time there was a lyncher/lynchee This time we had Tracker and Thief roles added.
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,701
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Post by Square on May 4, 2010 11:19:25 GMT -5
Have a lookback and see when I did roleclaim, if you think I'm lying about that then I am offended
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Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
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Post by Jazzman on May 4, 2010 11:24:39 GMT -5
Have a lookback and see when I did roleclaim, if you think I'm lying about that then I am offended That really doesn't answer the question Square, I hate to say. I know you didn't lie about your situation, however, the case can be made that you might have lied about your role. The fact of the matter being that you probably could have guessed that with active posters going down left and right that Sawyer was going down and you didn't do a damn things about it, knowing that you could have protected someone who was helping the town is something I find very suspect. I want an answer for that Square, because right now I've got a big ol' FoS on you, and my vote might be coming too.
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,701
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Post by Square on May 4, 2010 11:33:05 GMT -5
The reason I didn't vote to protect Sawyer was because in all honesty I forgot to do it at all and Al never sent me a reminder.
Ask me questions and I will answer them, all I'm seeing at the moment is "SQUARE ANSWER ME!" and no question to answer.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on May 4, 2010 16:23:06 GMT -5
Have a lookback and see when I did roleclaim, if you think I'm lying about that then I am offended That really doesn't answer the question Square, I hate to say. I know you didn't lie about your situation, however, the case can be made that you might have lied about your role. The fact of the matter being that you probably could have guessed that with active posters going down left and right that Sawyer was going down and you didn't do a damn things about it, knowing that you could have protected someone who was helping the town is something I find very suspect. I want an answer for that Square, because right now I've got a big ol' FoS on you, and my vote might be coming too. Why must you make sense? I'm pretty sure anyone with the ability to do so would have attempted to save Sawyer on the last night, since they were our strongest asset, as far as getting the town talking and communicating. Square, you were able to protect them, but didn't... why didn't you?
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,701
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Post by Square on May 4, 2010 16:27:18 GMT -5
That really doesn't answer the question Square, I hate to say. I know you didn't lie about your situation, however, the case can be made that you might have lied about your role. The fact of the matter being that you probably could have guessed that with active posters going down left and right that Sawyer was going down and you didn't do a damn things about it, knowing that you could have protected someone who was helping the town is something I find very suspect. I want an answer for that Square, because right now I've got a big ol' FoS on you, and my vote might be coming too. Why must you make sense? I'm pretty sure anyone with the ability to do so would have attempted to save Sawyer on the last night, since they were our strongest asset, as far as getting the town talking and communicating. Square, you were able to protect them, but didn't... why didn't you? Once again I forgot and got no reminded to vote.
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,701
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Post by Square on May 4, 2010 17:12:27 GMT -5
And I fail at english, that was meant to be reminder
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2010 20:24:01 GMT -5
Do you have anything more against the case on Jazz than just you not feelin' it? For instance, any dispute with the point(s) SnS seemed to make? Also, Square, this might be a good time for you to fess up if you fibbed about the Doctor thing. The entire one of Jazz only targeting him doesn't really make him sound scummy... it seemed like SnS just targeted him as a defense and then decided to push it further. none of the points are enough to convince me he is scum though... and just because your backed by someone doesn't mean anything. it could be a mafia member agreeing because its in their best interests so i dont see how someone agreeing with you helps your case
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Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
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Post by Jazzman on May 4, 2010 22:06:07 GMT -5
Why must you make sense? I'm pretty sure anyone with the ability to do so would have attempted to save Sawyer on the last night, since they were our strongest asset, as far as getting the town talking and communicating. Square, you were able to protect them, but didn't... why didn't you? Once again I forgot and got no reminded to vote.[/i][/quote] Bolding and Italics mine. So Square, you are being reminded to vote for someone. Well, I can tell you right now that I get no PMs from Al Bundy on when the day ends, so that irks me. To also say you forgot is something I don't buy either. You post 1 day before the last lynch, so you knew what was going on, if you were a doctor you should have at least seen that Sawyer was leading the town for the better part and you stood silent and did nothing. I'm sorry Square, but you leave me no choice at all. You played a decent game, but I have to follow my gut here. Vote: Square
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on May 4, 2010 22:30:01 GMT -5
Do you have anything more against the case on Jazz than just you not feelin' it? For instance, any dispute with the point(s) SnS seemed to make? Also, Square, this might be a good time for you to fess up if you fibbed about the Doctor thing. The entire one of Jazz only targeting him doesn't really make him sound scummy... it seemed like SnS just targeted him as a defense and then decided to push it further. none of the points are enough to convince me he is scum though... and just because your backed by someone doesn't mean anything. it could be a mafia member agreeing because its in their best interests so i dont see how someone agreeing with you helps your case Fair enough. And just to clarify (yet again), I am not on-board with the Jazzman case. I'm just interested in hearing both sides before I decide which one I'm going with.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on May 5, 2010 15:31:11 GMT -5
Deadline is tomorrow night...
In case I am not here, I would like to place my vote now:
VOTE: SQUARE
It's just a bad feeling that I have, especially after the Sawyer thing. And the Night Action, if you were a Doctor, could have been used to save them, which would have helped out the town immensely.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,223
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on May 5, 2010 17:21:53 GMT -5
Unofficial Vote Count
Jazzman- 3 (Sweet N Sour, jagilki, The Dom) Square- 4 (Jonathan Michaels, Scruffy, Jazzman, Butters) D2- 1 (Square)
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